Flops TA

[SilverSurfer]

Reading (and re-reading) the TA until you have a good understanding of what it contains would be an awesome plan. Then, if there are still parts of the TA you don't understand I strongly suggest you direct your questions to union leadership on the 1108 site. The questions being posted there have been responded to (usually) within 24hrs. This forum is not the proper - nor necessarily an accurate - source for TA information.

pfp

The leadership post on here all the time. There is no reason that the questions being asked here can not be answerers by said leadership. As stated by me and others, if you are not singing their tune you get hammered by the leadership and their boys.

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

pay

The new pay scale is well below what I was both expecting & what I was hoping for.

-I do understand it is a different company & has different (if any) financial backing than most of the other fractionals.

-Every company cries poor when negotiating pilot pay, but most companies won’t even consider opening their books to an outside auditor to verify certain financial information. The union was able conduct an audit of Flight Options’ financial books.

-A couple years ago, there was talk of specific clauses in share-owner contracts that allowed for a direct increase in their monthly costs to coincide with an increase in labor (pilot) salaries. Are there simply too many card-holder contracts and not enough share-owners to cover industry standard pilot salaries?

-Regarding some posts to "STMFPD": I can’t think of a faster way of shooting yourself in the d***. You hung around Flight Options this long: Try and change how the ship is steered; Don’t try and sink it.

Also: any time is a bad time to be waving this flag, but right now is a p***-poor time to be an unemployed pilot.

I just received this email from an airline in India (not Idaho, or Indiana, or the Cleveland Indians; but India, the country.).

“We have not yet received the document that we sought for processing your employment in the Company. However, the following documents are required to process your employment in ***** Airlines:

1. Last SIM check documents showing that SIM has been performed within last 03 months.
2. Valid license.
3. Valid medical Certificate.
4. Valid Passport.
5. Current last two pages of flying log book (flight must have been performed at least within six months).
6. Photograph.
7. Academic / School Certificates.
8. Experience Certificate.”

No guarantee of a job, let alone an interview, but they expect pilots to fork over $4 - $10k to a simulator company for currency. Don’t believe it’s real? Ask your fellow furloughed brothers and sisters or take a look at climbto350.com.

Got a question or a problem with the TA? - Get in line. But let’s keep some perspective on what everyone’s been trying to accomplish for the last 5 years.

 

[ProFracPilot]

T As stated by me and others, if you are not singing their tune you get hammered by the leadership and their boys.

I dunno Surfer. This hasn't been my experience. And I CERTAINLY haven't been drinking theirs - or anyone else's - kool aid.

 

[rajflyboy]

Hey I thought you were going away.

I've been paying close attention to this guys word choices and I'm beginning to suspect this is an alter-ego of B-19. They also seem to have the same agenda.

You can run but you can not hide. This contract isn't good enough to vote yes for.

Its simple to see.

 

[ITFL]

You can run but you can not hide. This contract isn't good enough to vote yes for.

Its simple to see.

Notice it did not deny the accusation.

B-19 for sure. And it would like nothing more than to tank our deal. Wouldn't want the Avantair boys to get any ideas.

 

[T-1GUY]

Wow, what ********************ty pay scales... Sorry, guys...

 

[ultrarunner]

Well, the beauty of the whole process is that the membership can tell the MEC exactly what they want during roadshows, comment periods, etc...

Send it back to the table or vote no, etc...

 

[rajflyboy]

Notice it did not deny the accusation.

B-19 for sure. And it would like nothing more than to tank our deal. Wouldn't want the Avantair boys to get any ideas.

Notice that ITFL won't answer questions about why the pay is so damn low???

 

[be-400xpdriver]

I guess 1108 will have to change their web site header from
"The leading union in private and business aircraft pilot representation" to "We suck"

 

[wacoflyr]

Wouldn't want the Avantair boys to get any ideas.

Huh? We've been accused of hijacking threads. What do you call it when others try to suck us in?

I wish the best for FLOPS pilots, and always have. On the road, you guys (and gals) have always been polite to me. I hope you get the best you can. We choose a different path, but I at least, respect yours.

Wacoflyr

 

[OldCrow]

Huh? We've been accused of hijacking threads. What do you call it when others try to suck us in?

I wish the best for FLOPS pilots, and always have. On the road, you guys (and gals) have always been polite to me. I hope you get the best you can. We choose a different path, but I at least, respect yours.

Wacoflyr

Thank you Sir. Well said. Much like the grocery store...I just stood in the wrong line...again. But after 10+ years of standing in this line, I can't switch now.

 

[BeenThereDoneIt]

The only thing worse than standing in the wrong line for 10 years...is standing in the wrong line for 10 years and 1 day. It is never too late to switch lines.

 

[surveypilot]

The only thing worse than standing in the wrong line for 10 years...is standing in the wrong line for 10 years and 1 day. It is never too late to switch lines.

If you have not noticed, there are not a whole lot of lines to switch to.

 

[993_Pilot]

The only thing worse than standing in the wrong line for 10 years...is standing in the wrong line for 10 years and 1 day. It is never too late to switch lines.

Unfortunately there aren't any lines to stand in these days, unless you want to go to the middle east or far east. Let's be realistic, the only option for most of us these days is ride out the storm and try to improve the conditions where we work now.

 

[ProFracPilot]

Let's be realistic, the only option for most of us these days is ride out the storm and try to improve the conditions where we work now.

You're absolutely right. And does the TA do that in the short term? I think it does. If one doesn't agree, then they must believe it is worth the risk of at least another 6mo to a year for (what I think will be) very little gain beyond this TA.

This is a first contract. By most accounts, an extremely good first contract - attaining much that many never get in their first attempt. FlOps management was NEVER going to agree taking the NJ contract and stamping Flight Options on it. I believe some harbored this very unrealistic hope.

Contractually mandated work rules and protections. Many of the work rules in the contract only codify the ones we have in place, but some are indeed improvements (a 14hr duty day limitation on Day 8, for one). I've found NONE that are worse than what we have currently in place. I'd say that's a pretty good job at negotiating.

Pay does not increase as much as we would have liked - year 1, anyway. But with the time-value of money being what it is, I cannot think of a scenario where the gain would make up for what will be left on the table if the TA is not ratified in this election. This scenario becomes worse if, because of the ensuing labor actions, business worsens. You're not being realistic about potential gains/losses to a contract if you are discounting this very real possibility.

Many wanted a 7and7 schedule, and it will be available. There was never a scenario that I could have imagined without some form of "Flex", "Reserve", or what will be known to us as a "16+2". That was the compromise. And because we, as a pilot group, are generally a greedy bunch I think senior pilots will take more of the "16+2" than some believe.

Our E-Board and negotiators have done a good job. And I know everyone has read the union communication, but it is fact of life that the negotiators were faced with an unbelievable challenge of negotiating in a horrible - and unforeseen - economic environment.

I'll be voting YES.

 

[be-400xpdriver]

Our E-Board and negotiators have done a good job.

I call bull sh!t.

 

[ProFracPilot]

I call bull sh!t.

That's certainly one view.

I'm guessing you have aspirations to be elected to the E-board? Because I suspect a few of the TA naysayers will be casting their 'no' vote and positioning themselves for just that purpose.

 

[skyismyoffice]

Much like the grocery store...I just stood in the wrong line...again. But after 10+ years of standing in this line, I can't switch now.

Yup, that's about the most astute thing I have read on this board in a long time. We all got in the wrong line and that sux.

 

[Hobbes]

One valid point to be made RE: the TA is that the pilots have NO authority in the hotel selection process. There is some kind of "recommendation" committee, but no rules in place as to what they can do....can they veto certain locations? Can they veto chains? Can they set a standard as to what pilots do and do not have to accept?

 

[ITFL]

Huh? We've been accused of hijacking threads. What do you call it when others try to suck us in?

I wish the best for FLOPS pilots, and always have. On the road, you guys (and gals) have always been polite to me. I hope you get the best you can. We choose a different path, but I at least, respect yours.

Wacoflyr

No your missing it. The reference was to B19 being Avantair management... Not trying to draw you in. Only trying to drive him and his alter-ego out.