Flops Pilots going after their own

[Myster79]

I was gonna shut up, but I just can't stand this. These guys, for their own reasons, possibly ethical, didn't want a union. One got voted in any way, which I applauded. Now, even though they pay dues you guys, fellow pilots, are going after them, because they don't agree with the contract. Even worse, you state that one of the primary reasons is so that you will present a more united front to the company! Let's handcuff these guys, so we can say they are the same as us! We value appearances more than facts. Nice.

These pilots didn't support your fight, because it went against their beliefs, and you are going to publish a list of pilots who might have objected on principle, and didn't want to pay for a fight they didn't believe in. This shows a complete lack of respect for differences of opinion that your fellow pilots might have. Any idea of the democratic process in this union has evaporated. I sure hope you guys never talk about politics or religion in the cockpit.

Remember, someday, we will all, all of us be in the minority. is this how you would like to be treated?

don't tell me that you are any different than management when it comes to strong-arming pilots. I think you're better at it. You have no respect for minority opinion. And don't try to raise the flag. Individuality is dead at Flops. Lockstep guys, lockstep.

You have repeatably stated this isn't your fight and you aren't employed by FLOPS... Right? As a member in good standing at Options I ask you to please refrain from commenting on anything that you have no prior knowledge. Your responses only make you look like an ass. This is our fight and we will fight it to win. Maybe if you spent some time working there you would understand.

 

[BE40Driver]

Myster69 - Who are you fighting with? The pilots that are paying dues or service fees? You Sir sound VERY angry. Who stole your crew meal!

 

[1folinepilot]

Please quote the contract where it said the company has to have "X" number of pilots on payroll at any given time?
I havent seen that one, but could be wrong.

Oh and your last comment, I never broke the plane to write it up. So you can go f.. your self, for that comment. The plane was written up when it was found. So if you did anything else, thats not "following the Union Direction" , which makes you part of the "Hell Bent Radical" side of the problem you talk about.

Read the contract as you may just learn something.

1.2(b) The Company will actively employ a minimum number of Line Pilots on the Flight Options Seniority List that is commensurate with the Company’s fractional hours under Management and JetPASS card holder hours. The number of Line Pilots required will be measured quarterly by dividing the fractional Hours under Management and JetPASS card holder hours at the end of each quarter by 800 hours, then multiplying by 4.0.

27.8 Supplemental Pay Program
The parties have established a Supplemental Pay Program (SPP). The SPP provides for percentage increases to pilots’ current base salary based on increases in revenue flight hours as measured against fixed benchmarks. Payments are made on a quarterly basis. Supplemental payments are based on a pilot’s position, longevity and schedule as described below. SPP components are set forth below:

Dime, When and where it broke huh? Riiiigggghhhhhhtttttt!

 

[gret]

You have repeatably stated this isn't your fight and you aren't employed by FLOPS... Right? As a member in good standing at Options I ask you to please refrain from commenting on anything that you have no prior knowledge. Your responses only make you look like an ass. This is our fight and we will fight it to win. Maybe if you spent some time working there you would understand.

Are you sure wacoflyr is the one looking bad? He makes a lot of sense.

How can you be so sure you are in "good standing" and what the heck does this mean? Perfect posture?

If you don't want others chiming in, then don't have the discussion on a public forum. It comes with the territory.

 

[glasspilot]

...I ask you to please refrain from commenting on anything that you have no prior knowledge.

That's the problem with a public discussion. The damn public can hear you. Oh, and sometimes they have opinions to share. Imagine that!

Did you think you could have a private conversation on a public forum? Hahahahahaha!

 

[AftCG182]

I ask you to please refrain from commenting on anything that you have no prior knowledge. Your responses only make you look like an ass. This is our fight and we will fight it to win. Maybe if you spent some time working there you would understand.

I can assure you that me co-worker is not an ass.

 

[1folinepilot]

Ok, I understand your theory. Here's the problem with it. No active pilot is going to get fired over this, because every active pilot is currently paying either dues or the agency fee. And active pilots have a legal right not to join the union.

As for the union not playing hardball with management, what else would like them to do? From what I hear they have four or five grievances going to arbitration right now. I think they are adequately doing their job, which is enforcing the contract.

Now if you’re suggesting that they didn't do a good job of negotiating the CBA to begin with, that's laughable. With an average 40% wage increase over the life of a contract that was negotiated during the worst economy in 80 years? Come on.

I would also remind you that the union's ability to negotiate that contract was affected by the same freeloaders you seem to be defending here. So if you don't like the contract and you wanna blame someone, blame them.

Thats nice that the Union did get some of the members a raise, but at what cost did they do so? 55% of the pilots did not get a raise come this past Jan 1st and nearly 30% of the pilots will not get a raise until their anniversary date in 2012. Then after 2012 their raises will be a meager 3%. Thats nearly 2 years of being pay frozen while inflation and the cost of living keeps going up. With that being said, while there are some pilots that will be making a killing over the life of the contract, well over half of the pilots at Flight Options will never see a 40% wage increase over the life of this contract. At best they will see a 10 to 12% raise and when you compare that to inflation and the cost of living increases it will end up being 0 or a loss to the very junior pilots.

Praetorian, please stop patting yourself on your back

 

[1folinepilot]

are those crickets I hear? I guess the mighty praetorian is too busy patting his back to type out a witty twisted response.

 

[hogbody]

I could have sworn I just heard the irrelevant simperings of a freeloader. Could be wrong.

Anyways, words on the street, Flops pilot with no IBT logo on his badge = freeloader (or in some cases they turn the badge around to hide their shame) Should be interesting this spring when the jackets come off.

 

[dime line]

I could have sworn I just heard the irrelevant simperings of a freeloader. Could be wrong.

Anyways, words on the street, Flops pilot with no IBT logo on his badge = freeloader (or in some cases they turn the badge around to hide their shame)

Should be interesting this spring when the jackets come off

.

Yea i'm having the same problem with the jackets and seeing the badges

 

[1folinepilot]

Dime and Hog, I am a member in good standing (MIG) and wear my IBT badge on my outer most garment facing forward for all to see, but with the behavior of the two of you and others in your group, I am actually considering displaying my company badge instead to avoid association with your attitude.

Since Praetorian has decided to stick his head in the sand and ignore my questions in hopes I will go away, perhaps the two of you will man up and answer.

 

[dime line]

Dime and Hog, I am a member in good standing (MIG) and wear my IBT badge on my outer most garment facing forward for all to see, but with the behavior of the two of you and others in your group, I am actually considering displaying my company badge instead to avoid association with your attitude.

Since Praetorian has decided to stick his head in the sand and ignore my questions in hopes I will go away, perhaps the two of you

will man up and answer.

answer what? I'm not in the 1108 board or any where near the board, I have my own opinion on what is right and wrong. and not paying for our fight is just wrong in my book. So its your choice weather you wear your badge or not, your choice, I just have nothing to say to those on the list, and frankly if you wear the company badge, but your not on the list, there is nothing wrong with that either, but expect FLOPS pilots to ask you about it. Again your CHOICE!

 

[shanes123]

Thats nice that the Union did get some of the members a raise, but at what cost did they do so? 55% of the pilots did not get a raise come this past Jan 1st and nearly 30% of the pilots will not get a raise until their anniversary date in 2012. Then after 2012 their raises will be a meager 3%. Thats nearly 2 years of being pay frozen while inflation and the cost of living keeps going up. With that being said, while there are some pilots that will be making a killing over the life of the contract, well over half of the pilots at Flight Options will never see a 40% wage increase over the life of this contract. At best they will see a 10 to 12% raise and when you compare that to inflation and the cost of living increases it will end up being 0 or a loss to the very junior pilots.

Praetorian, please stop patting yourself on your back

The ones that didnt see a pay raise were Golden boys with special deals that have been making a killing for the last 10 years..They didnt need a raise and they werent whining when they were making 25-40k more than everone else before the contract..But now they think they should have gotten another raise???? Yeah right

 

[Newkem]

Thats nice that the Union did get some of the members a raise, but at what cost did they do so? 55% of the pilots did not get a raise come this past Jan 1st and nearly 30% of the pilots will not get a raise until their anniversary date in 2012. Then after 2012 their raises will be a meager 3%. Thats nearly 2 years of being pay frozen while inflation and the cost of living keeps going up. With that being said, while there are some pilots that will be making a killing over the life of the contract, well over half of the pilots at Flight Options will never see a 40% wage increase over the life of this contract. At best they will see a 10 to 12% raise and when you compare that to inflation and the cost of living increases it will end up being 0 or a loss to the very junior pilots.

Praetorian, please stop patting yourself on your back

So, hows it going? Hows the FAMILY doing? :erm:

 

[Flightbag]

I can't quote the law (it may be part of the RLA), but the union is REQUIRED to represent all individuals to whom a collective bargaining agreement applies. In this case it is all the FlOps pilots covered by the CBA. This representation is mandated regardless of a pilot's status. In a worse case scenario, a union dissenter FlOps pilot has an issue where management brings disciplinary action against the individual. The dissenter can request, and is required to be provided, 1108 representation in the matter to assure his/her rights under the CBA are fully met.

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly sure this is the case.

You're absolutely correct. It's called "the duty of fair representation". The union by law must represent all the members of the bargaining unit regardless of membership or fee payer status.

It gets worse. Years ago, after a strike, a Southern Airways scab was fired for incompetence. He demanded and received union (ALPA) representation but his termination was still upheld in arbitration.

He asserted the union could have done better so he sued them for the breach of the duty of fair representation. The court agreed with him and the union was forced to pay a huge settlement in excess of what the pilot would have made in his career.

In a previous life I worked at a company that had agency shop. There was a pilot who refused to pay his dues. The union followed all the required steps to get this pilot to pay. He refused. That was a most unfortunate. He was fired for non payment of his financial obligation to the union. After his termination he had a change of heart and attempted to pay. Too bad, he never gained his job back. To my knowledge, he was the only pilot who ever challenged agency shop there.

Flightbag