Flops Pilots going after their own

[Ludicrous Speed]

list

Flops pilots saw first hand a great number of tactics done by the lower forms of management. I don’t agree that this is a “tactic.”

The request had been made repeatedly over a course of several years (by many of the pilots) to the Union leadership for a list. This is not a knee-jerk or careless action. In fact, the Union leadership exercised a considerable amount of restraint by delaying publishing a list, allowing all Flops pilots time to experience the Union. In short, all Flops pilots have had years to recognize, contribute, & participate as a MIG.

The list to be published is a factual list & not based on fantasy or speculation or innuendo.

All active Flops pilots are reaping the benefits of a contract, including pay raises… benefits, pay & pay raises that two hundred furloughed pilots are not receiving.

Some non-Migs pilots may well be labeled “independent” or “indifferent”. Others are anti-union pilots and as the label suggests are actively working against the Union, through both word and action/inaction. I believe it’s important for all Union members to understand who those individuals are & what impact they can have upon the Union & the company.

I applaud the leadership’s decision to publish this list.

 

[T-1GUY]

To kill a rat, first you must think like a rat....

 

[993_Pilot]

While I may not agree with them, I personally have more respect for the pilot who stands up for their beliefs (even if it is against the union), than the Chicken$h!t pilots who are MIGS, but don't want anyone in management to know it, so don't wear the IBT logo badge, do work 14+ hr. duty days, and will volunteer for OT, etc.
No more pretending or hiding. I am looking forward to seeing the list

 

[jonjuan]

To kill a rat, first you must think like a rat....

Huh? You mean think like a cat?

 

[fracjack]

While I may not agree with them, I personally have more respect for the pilot who stands up for their beliefs (even if it is against the union), than the Chicken$h!t pilots who are MIGS, but don't want anyone in management to know it, so don't wear the IBT logo badge, do work 14+ hr. duty days, and will volunteer for OT, etc.
No more pretending or hiding. I am looking forward to seeing the list

Now there is a pilot who knows. Contract is clear about service fees like it or not ,but joining the MIGS club is optional. Like it or not the union must represent a service fee paying crewmember. The consequences for not paying the fees are clear and if anyone doesn't understand that they deserve termination. List the ChickinSh!ts too. That will never happen since the union won't acknowledge that to save face. The smart MIGS will know the difference(fortunately there are many I'm sure). They usually never post here.

 

[T-1GUY]

To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy. — Sun Tzu

 

[NoJoy]

The man who fights too long against dragons becomes a dragon himself- Nietzche

 

[shanes123]

Why cant all the anti union guys who dont support the union just not receive any benefit from it..They dont pay dues and in return they receive no union protections, raise, benefits, or anything else that your contract has to offer? Let them stay at there current pay scale or negotiate with the company directly on there pay? Keep them at will to work employees? I am being very serious about this..I would like a serious answer to this question..

 

[OldCrow]

Why cant all the anti union guys who dont support the union just not receive any benefit from it..They dont pay dues and in return they receive no union protections, raise, benefits, or anything else that your contract has to offer? Let them stay at there current pay scale or negotiate with the company directly on there pay? Keep them at will to work employees? I am being very serious about this..I would like a serious answer to this question..

Well, because they, the anti-union pilots, would get FAR better pay, schedule, and benefits, by the stroke of SFO (or something like it). The rest of the Pilot group, well a few, would go "Wow, look at the grass on that side of the fence!!!". Management, all the while loving the new turn in the tide, fully knowing that when they have captured enough sheep with the bait would send a Blackberry message/s and slowly start taking it all away.....until the Union comes back, to the loud bleeting of angry sheep, to fix it, again.

 

[shanes123]

Old Crow..I dont think management would give them more money and I dont think that many people are that stupid to give up a contract for a few cents if they did..But I could be wrong and I guess we will never know

 

[ProFracPilot]

Why cant all the anti union guys who dont support the union just not receive any benefit from it..They dont pay dues and in return they receive no union protections, raise, benefits, or anything else that your contract has to offer? Let them stay at there current pay scale or negotiate with the company directly on there pay? Keep them at will to work employees? I am being very serious about this..I would like a serious answer to this question..

I can't quote the law (it may be part of the RLA), but the union is REQUIRED to represent all individuals to whom a collective bargaining agreement applies. In this case it is all the FlOps pilots covered by the CBA. This representation is mandated regardless of a pilot's status. In a worse case scenario, a union dissenter FlOps pilot has an issue where management brings disciplinary action against the individual. The dissenter can request, and is required to be provided, 1108 representation in the matter to assure his/her rights under the CBA are fully met.

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly sure this is the case.

 

[ultrarunner]

So, then no real advantage to paying dues? I'll have to check an old CBA....

 

[imacdog]

So, then no real advantage to paying dues? I'll have to check an old CBA....

Dues payer or fee payer, the money comes out of the paycheck either way. The difference being, dues payers are able to vote in union elections, contracts, etc.

 

[Helmsalee]

Ultra, you can pay fees or dues. The union is required, by law, to represent you whether you pay or not. If you chose to pay neither, then eventually, you will be terminated. This has been established over decades of labor law. Nobody says you have to like it, but it is fact, and you better accept it.
Helm

 

[hogbody]

Okay, it is a closed shop. Fine. From the date of the contract. Why should our independent pilot have to pay back to '06, to fund a fight he didn't believe in?

Because in 2006, the company was intentionally being run into the ground by the evil former CEO. Had he succeeded, Flight Options would probably not exist today. Most Flops pilots recognized this and supported joining IBT 1108. Many considered the facts and decided not to support unionization. The union was voted in, and many who had voted against it did the right thing: they respected the vote of the majority and supported 1108 in every way their leadership requested. Today many of those former anti-union pilots are highly respected committee leaders and members.
Not surprisingly, the large majority of those who have not paid their back dues are the same guys you would never want to spend an 8 day tour with. They don't take their profession seriously, they are perfectly happy leaving the airplane looking like crap, and nothing is ever their fault. The folks I'm talking about are terminally lazy, never committed to anything, and will throw you under the bus in a heartbeat if it will make them look better. Few, if any, of the remaining non-MIGS are honorable men and women who oppose the union on moral grounds. They are simply bottom feeders.

 

[dime line]

Today many of those former anti-union pilots are highly respected committee leaders and members.

Don't know about the "Highly respected" part.

 

[petebest]

Here's what we're talking about

I really wish this hadn’t come up on here since it’s an issue internal to our pilot group. But since it has, let me try to clear up some confusion.

Flight Options like NJ is an agency shop. This means our pilots have to, as a condition of employment pay dues going forward, from the day the contract was ratified. They have no legal obligation to pay dues prior to that date. The union has enforced the agency shop provision of the contract and all Flops pilots are currently paying either dues (as members in good standing) or are paying the agency fee. So our pilots have every right not to be members of the union and know one is saying otherwise.

Where the problem comes in is that the Local 1108 by-laws stipulate that a pilot must have paid dues since November of 2006 – when the bylaws were ratified by the membership – in order to be in good standing. Many of the delinquent pilots would owe between three and four thousand dollars in dues to become in good standing and the union’s leadership, with an understanding that this would be an unreasonable hardship, began offering a payment plan. In exchange for paying about $50 per month and agreeing to apply this amount towards back dues until they are paid off, the delinquent pilots are made in good standing. Add into the mix the fact that on Jan 1 of this year all pilots at Flops (including the delinquent ones) got a sizable pay increase. Finally, from what I understand this is a small percentage of our overall group.

So it is against this backdrop that many of our pilots are upset with these freeloaders. Many of them paid nothing - that's right nothing zero zilch - to achieve the contract they currently benefit from. They were offered a payment plan to make it right and rejected it and they recently got another raise the rest of us paid for. Most importantly in the long run, by thumbing their noses at the rest of us, they will undermine our efforts in the future by letting management know that if we ever go on strike they will cross the line. This negatively impacts the bargaining dynamic in favor of the company, before negotiations even begin.

I don’t think NJ has any pilots who are not in good standing with their union. Aside from the economic situation we found ourselves during our contract negotiations, this is why they were more successful then us the last two times they went to the table. So no, our delinquent freeloading pilots do not have to get in good standing, but I think the union’s leadership wants the rest of us to understand the consequences if they do not. I also believe they have come under increasing pressure from the pilots to expose the freeloaders.

As for Waco’s argument about difference of opinion, if we ever go on strike and someone scabs, I could give a rat’s a$$ about that scabs opinion. I feel much the same about these freeloaders.

Pete

 

[ultrarunner]

Ok, so Pete has an excellent response. With that said, at what point does the 'Union' ask the company to terminate these pilots? Is the 'ratting out list' a last-ditch-effort to bring them into compliance?

 

[OldCrow]

Ok, so Pete has an excellent response. With that said, at what point does the 'Union' ask the company to terminate these pilots? Is the 'ratting out list' a last-ditch-effort to bring them into compliance?

You just don't get it runner...nobody is going to get fired. All the pilots are paying dues in one form or another, so NOBODY is going to get fired. However, some have not paid there back dues, so they are not in good standing. We want them to be in good standing....nobody is going to get fired, at least not for paying dues. If you don't know what it means to be in good standing, please read Pete's post again. If you work for FLOPs I suggest you take a read through the contract, cause you just ain't picking it up.

 

[Alaska82]

Ok, so Pete has an excellent response. With that said, at what point does the 'Union' ask the company to terminate these pilots? Is the 'ratting out list' a last-ditch-effort to bring them into compliance?

After the contract ratification every pilot pays 1.56%. Some call the payment dues and some call it a agency fee. To vote you have to be a MIG. To be protected by the CBA you have to pay 1.56%. The only way someone could be terminated is if they refused to pay the 1.56% in which case they would have already been terminated.

I believe none union members, that are represented by the CBA pay agency fees. Union members pay dues. Some union members might not be MIGS i think most are.

When the Union was first voted in they claimed no dues until a CBA. They changed the by-laws to require dues payments from 2006 on. Some people started voluntarily paying some did not. This might be why all union members are not migs.

I would like all pilots to be MIGS. With 100% of pilots being MIGS it sends a message to management, that we are united. The more Unity we display the better. The union is here to stay, you have to pay 1.56% anyway why not have the right to vote. At least then your voice is heard. And if you don't agree with the way the union is currently being run you can try and change it with your vote.

I cannot think of one reason not to be a MIG. So please enlighten me on the subject.