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FLOPS Maintenance Sucks

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FR8DOG777

Well-known member
Joined
May 15, 2006
Posts
360
Wow, this was taken right off the company website. Are they suggesting that we carry right-ups until it is convenient for maintenance? I like the first bullet stating to give them a heads up on broken items. Yea right. If its broke, its broke. When its broke, where it is broke. No way in hell am I going to call the maintenance dude on row three and say "we have an issue with X, just giving you a heads up". Nope it is like this, " X is not working properly, I need the total hours and landings please so I can finish this 501. Thanks and have a nice day.:laugh:

Maintenance

At the KCGF Headquarters, your Mid-Cabin Program Managers have been participating in ongoing meetings with the Maintenance Department with focus on improving communications between flight department management and maintenance, and between flight crews and maintenance.
An important focus item immerging from these meetings has been the specific manner in which discrepancies are written by the flight crew. For example, the utilization of appropriate wording and/or verbiage on a discrepancy report as well as including any operational data pertinent to the discrepancy are both paramount in efficiently troubleshooting the discrepancy.
As a reminder to flight crews, there is now a Maintenance Coordinator stationed on each Row in the OCC and available for guidance and assistance with all maintenance issues.
The Maintenance Department has asked that we remind our crews to adhere to the following guidelines when generating a 501 discrepancy:
  • Give the Row 3 Maintenance Coordinator as much advanced notice as possible on impending discrepancies. Whenever possible, discuss each issue with the Row 3 Maintenance Coordinator prior to generating the discrepancy.
  • Be as detailed as possible when generating the discrepancy. Whenever possible, solicit guidance from the Row 3 Maintenance Coordinator concerning any necessary data and/or information that should be included in the discrepancy (i.e. flight conditions, temperatures, engine parameters, etc.).
  • Whenever possible, solicit guidance from the Maintenance Coordinator on the wording and/or verbiage you will utilize in the discrepancy. Discrepancies written utilizing maintenance verbiage or “maintenance speak” are often more easily interpreted by maintenance personnel, and often yield less confusion or questions at troubleshooting time.
  • Always verify that your Row 3 Maintenance Coordinator has received all faxed 501 forms. This should be accomplished by sending an e-mail confirmation of receipt to the A/C Control H800 e-mail address, which may be obtained through the “Lookup” function on your Black/Blueberry. The e-mail should include the time that the fax was sent and the amount of 501s included in the fax.
Many thanks all for your time and attention to these issues…and thanks again to all Mid-Cabin crews for all of your hard work and dedication.
 
Perhaps they mean to call the company en route when something breaks to give the "heads up". This could be accomplished by ACARS, AIRINC, SAT Phone, or via radio through FSS.

Just playing devils advocate.
 
Maybe?

You could be correct. Management may want us to call ahead on the phone (providing it works) to give them a heads up on a maintenance issue in flight. Of course "in flight" wasn't mentioned in the communication from FLOPS. Recent threats to our pilots give me a different feeling. They are tracking every write-up by every pilot. They have statistics on this stuff. They have also stated that they would send a "counseling letter" if you have too many write-ups.
Calling ahead may be what they mean, but until we are treated with the same respect as our peers at the other fractionals, and have industry standard pay and benefits, that will be highly unlikely. I will not do any favors for FLOPS. They simply don't deserve any.
 
I was called several times while planes were aloft and given a heads up
to a coming write-up which would down the aircraft. I informed both the
maintenance coordinator and the infamous "front-row" troubleshooters [sic].
Wow! Got my butt chewed a few times for not having the crew talk with the
MX guru immediately. Well, I always figured if they wanted to talk to the MX
guru they would have either; a) called him directly, or b) asked to speak with
him.

As a scheduler it wasn't my job to determine downing gripes. I always figured
the crew was giving me a courtesy call to allow time for recovery of any
follow-on flights. The infamous front row never seemed to view it that
way. Rather than spending the time notifying the follow-on flights' owners
of impending delay or working on recovery, they focussed on getting the
crew to continue to fly the aircraft under a long, and growing longer, list of
MELs.

I left over two years ago. I miss the people. I don't miss the job for that
very reason.

I would argue the title of the thread is incorrect. The maintenance folks
have been jerked around almost as much as the pilot group. They're
FO employees, now they're Raytheon employees, now they're FO
employees, losing benefits, taking pay cuts... ouch. I still keep in touch
with a couple of mx types - they're not happy either.
 
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Boy, oh boy... aren't company policies fun? Let me shed some light on the big scheme of things when it comes to the "Triune 3" of documents that card-carrying Union members fly with in today's day and age.

1. FARs
2. CBA (contract)
3. FOM, GOM, OU812 (company policy)


Welcome to the food chain of documentation. 3 cannot trump 2 or 1. 2 trumps 3 but not 1 and 1 trumps it ALL. I would characterize the maintenance memo FLOPS management put out as a clear an present danger to any professional flight crews career.

Let's look at just a few of the FAR Part 91 nuggets related to this topic.

I'm sure that 91K and 135 operate in tandem to FAR 91.


§ 91.3 Responsibility and authority of
the pilot in command.


(a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is
the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft.

§ 91.7 Civil aircraft airworthiness.


(a) No person may operate a civil aircraft unless it is in an airworthy condition.

(b) The pilot in command of a civil aircraft is responsible for determining whether that aircraft is in condition for safe flight. The pilot in command shall discontinue the flight when unairworthy mechanical, electrical, or structural conditions occur.


And if you hurt or kill someone in the process...

§ 91.13 Careless or reckless operation.


(a) Aircraft operations for the purpose of air navigation. No person may operate an aircraft in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another.
 
I am glad I left too.

Why stay? The place has not lived up to its promises from day one. It started with liars and cheats and is going to finish by making liars and cheats out of you if you stay! Think about it... ...why not leave and be happy? If you need help finding a new job, ask. I used to think that people did not quit the company but rather the poor managers that ran the company. I don't even put FLOPs on my resume; I tell those interested that I took five years off to find out who I am and reaffirm my religion (translated: I was lost most of the time because of poor management direction and I prayed everyday that my boss would get hit by a bus.)
 
Recent threats to our pilots give me a different feeling. They are tracking every write-up by every pilot. They have statistics on this stuff. They have also stated that they would send a "counseling letter" if you have too many write-ups.

Comair used that tactic during negotiations, too. They figured that would stop the write-ups. Then again, they figured the pilots wouldn't strike for 89 days, either. Just to f'up the stats the FO's would write up some of the squawks.
 
Comair used that tactic during negotiations, too. They figured that would stop the write-ups. Then again, they figured the pilots wouldn't strike for 89 days, either. Just to f'up the stats the FO's would write up some of the squawks.


There were FO's writing stuff up a while back at Options and that caused a big stink. They are so stupid that they think since they are FO's they can not write stuff up. They operate different than airlines in the fact that every pilot is typed in the aircraft. Some people were trying to say that the captain may know more about the airplane than the FO. That theory is the dumbest thing I had ever heard. They have FO's that have been in an airplane for over 5 years and then they got captains that just came to the airplane. Who do you think would know more about the plane?

I had a check-airmen tell me that FO's should consult with the captain before they put pen to paper. That is the most asinine thing I have ever heard. There are plenty of times that the FO's gets to the plane hours or days before the captain. So that would not work anyway.

Also they had check-airmen that are famous for grounding airplanes counseling FO's on writing stuff up. Talk about the blind leading the blind?

As for the original topic. MX uses the mighty pen and the CND for too much. The problem is scheduling is on their backs to get the plane out the door. That is not so much the case anymore though. They are as pi$$ed as the pilots with the new bennies coming out.

All I can say is that it is going to be an interesting peak travel season. Can you say charter costs are going to sky rocket? ;)
 
It sounds very likely in spite of the fact that it's entirely avoidable. Management could invest in their employees rather than high-priced consultants who specialize in how to show disrespect to the workers who are on the front line interacting with the owners. How utterly UN motivating and guaranteed to stress out/exhaust the pilots just when they need them the most. Who gets the credit for that dumb idea...let me guess...:rolleyes:

Here's another easy riddle:

Q: What are Options pilots serving to management this holiday season?

A: Their just desserts...:p
 
I had a check-airmen tell me that FO's should consult with the captain before they put pen to paper. That is the most asinine thing I have ever heard. There are plenty of times that the FO's gets to the plane hours or days before the captain. So that would not work anyway.

As an FO, I would not "put pen to paper" in the logbook. I am there to assist the captain, not do his job.
 
As an FO, I would not "put pen to paper" in the logbook. I am there to assist the captain, not do his job.


From your profile I am going to assume you are in the 121 world and have been for a while. With that being said, fractional's are a lot different than the 121 world. In the 121 world both the captain and FO get to the plane together.

If you would have read my post, you would notice that I stated the FO may see the airplane hours or days before the captain.

So with your mentality, it would not work in the fractional world.

Like linecheck asked. What are you going to do when the captain does not right something up? I for one will not let anyone push me to fly a broke airplane that I think should not be flown. I have a family that is more important than any job or passenger needing to get somewhere.

Again re-read my post. You will notice that everyone is typed in the plane and the FO just may have thousands of hours in the plane and the captain may just got out of school and has thier 100 hours so they are not high min's. With that being said who are you going to trust more? The guy with thousands of hours in the plane or the guy fresh out of school.

I have given some tips to new captains and they have given me tips as well. You learn from each other, not by the title you have. Just like any job the reason that person is captain is because he got hired first not because they have more experience or have been in the plane a long time. Again see above.

So let that captain that does not want to "put pen to paper" push you into flying a broke airplane, it just might be your last flight.

I would think if you really have 16,000 hours you would have more common sense. So go on and continue to "assist".

Oh yeah, assist my a$$. I am not there to assist anyone, I am there to do my job and make sure I get home to see my family at the end of my rotation.
 
From your profile I am going to assume you are in the 121 world and have been for a while. With that being said, fractional's are a lot different than the 121 world. In the 121 world both the captain and FO get to the plane together.

If you would have read my post, you would notice that I stated the FO may see the airplane hours or days before the captain.

I was an FO for 3 years and never wrote in the logbook.

I was a captain for 14 years, and had a couple of FOs write in the logbook. Both times, it was at a mx base. No problem.

I am now an FO at Netjets, and I have not put a write up in the logbook. I might tell the captain about something, but it is up to him to make that call. I have never gotten to a plane "days before the captain". I have been to the FBO or the hotel minutes and hours before, but not days before.

Unlike aviation management, I do have respect for the captains authority.

(and NO, I have never been violated, investigated, or warned by FAA, NTSB or company)
 
Relax, my friend. In the frac world, it really is a team in the cockpit. I never called the guy i'm flying with "captain are you ready for the checklist, or captain, is it ok if I eat my crew meal now"? They won't bite, (they may nibble a little however).;)
 
Though I don't like beer, I wish to propose a toast to DL's new status as a Union Volunteer! :beer:
 

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