FLOPS Maintenance Sucks

[dime line]

We are not here to finance the wealthiest people's mode of transportation

This quote about sums it up

 

[netjetwife]

Skanza, I think most of the pilots are far more reasonable than the radical outlook you ascribe to them. To use your analogy--I do think they realize they can't crash the bus as they still need transportation, nor would they want to hurt the pet whose companionship means so much to them.

These days self-help books are quite popular. Many of the NJ pilots found Confessions of a Union Buster to be very instructive for their dealings with management. Likewise, DL and Fr8dog understand that the company won't offer carrots until the pilots have shown them that the stick approach will no longer provide results. To offer a metaphor of my own.... NJW

 

[TORCH67]

Don't carry write ups
Don't fly fatigued
Don't fly hungry
Work at a safe pace
Don't take unmanageable risks
Your crew and passengers safety is NO. 1

In Summary, be a safe, professional pilot. This may upset some passengers and management types, but it is the only way to operate in contract negotiations or not. No matter what company you fly for, some pilots will lose sight of these objectives. There is no commercial flying worth risking your life, your crews life, or passengers life over (life flights excluded). In the long run, this will make a stronger company!

 

[netjetwife]

Well said, Torch!

 

[Fozzy]

We know your ego is small and fragile but how small and disfuctional is your d*&k that you have to have a picture of a gun to define yourself??????

Do guns scare you nerd? I personally like his avatar. Hel! I may have to get a pic of one of mine up there to make up for all my short comings (puns intended) also!

Oh ya,
skanza = FUD. Ignore and move on with the holiday cheer. Keep kicking them in the ding ding. It takes months of this to get their attention. But they will get the picture. You just have to be dead serious about putting the place out of business and having to find a new job. :uzi:
If you don't have the stomach for that, your quest for a profesional paycheck is lost. Good luck.

 

[Dep676]

You have many words, I see. But, What about upsetting so many owners that they and thier wealthy friends leave FLOPS? Then, nobody has a "crappy job" to complain about. It's like: "This bus I'm driving doesn't handle well, so I'll crash it. That'll fix it!" -or- "My dog doesn't respond the way I'd like him to when I call him, so I'll shoot him. That'll show him!". I realize pay and working conditions are an issue, but shooting your foot off because your shoe doesn't quite fit doesn't make sense. (Sorry, I'll stop with the metaphors). I've been reading your posts, FR8DOG777 and I appreciate that you want to make FLOPS a great place, let's just not brake it in the process.
Peace.

The company does a good enough job on their own to pi$$ off the owners. I have never seen any crew do anything to do make any owners mad on purpose.

Just talk to any NJ pilot and they will explain the whole thing about being safe and not flying broke airplanes.

 

[TORCH67]

I don't ever remember the pilot ratings from owners fall below 90%+ at anytime last year. Other departments saw the ratings fall well below that though. The owners might have been upset at times, but they knew why! If you have a question about carrying a writeup next time, just ask the owner in the back if he/she is ok with it! Try and tell them that you are cutting corners to save the company some bucks!

 

[netjetwife]

I can hear it now "Not at my expense!"

 

[pamed19]

FLOPS Owner

The company does a good enough job on their own to pi$$ off the owners. I have never seen any crew do anything to do make any owners mad on purpose.

Just talk to any NJ pilot and they will explain the whole thing about being safe and not flying broke airplanes.

I can tell you with certainty that the Pilots are not the problem at FLOPS.They are the best!

 

[learflyer]

We know your ego is small and fragile but how small and disfuctional is your d*&k that you have to have a picture of a gun to define yourself??????

"I'm 6'4" and hung like a pimple"..............qouted by Mr. Howard Stern.

 

[skanza]

skanza = FUD. Ignore and move on with the holiday cheer.
FUD?
"You just have to be dead serious about putting the place out of business and having to find a new job." Are you nuts? I still don't see what goos this will do. What a selfish point of view, must be dealing with a Type A personality here.

FR8DOG777, the employees (if that's what you are) actually have control of the company. Management (and I'm not one of them) is open to ideas of what the "right" things to do are. "raping and pillaging against it's employees" without examples, I don't believe that happens at F.O. And what will that management get if they don't "cease"?

netjetwife, I appreciate your candor. You must be a female, given your user name. You present things calmly and don't reference guns and shortcomings. Good job.

 

[Dep676]

not[/U] one of them) is open to ideas of what the "right" things to do are. "raping and pillaging against it's employees" without examples, I don't believe that happens at F.O. And what will that management get if they don't "cease"?

Management open to do doing the right thing? How is raising our insurance over 150% doing the right thing?

The only thing that management is good at is screwing their employees.

 

[dash_trash]

Raping and Pillaging

"raping and pillaging against it's employees"

Insurance, including the spousal surcharge went from $143 to $470(my current family plan). No or very poor crew meals, very poor hotels, 2-5 hours standby before flights, first airlines out and 15+ hour days trying to get home, fleet reductions, furlough threats ... shall I continue. Personally, I'd call that raping not only me, but all of our dedicated pilots.

With management, it's nothing personnel, they just don't care about you or your family! Just look into this managements history and you will find nothing but train wrecks; AW, USAir - MetroJet, Express, retro-active pay/benefit cuts, and 2 bankruptcies in as many years, just list a couple of the wrecks.

So, my question to you Skanza is, "What flavor is the Kool-aide you're drinking?"

 

[Fozzy]

skanza = FUD. Ignore and move on with the holiday cheer.
FUD?
"You just have to be dead serious about putting the place out of business and having to find a new job." Are you nuts? I still don't see what goos this will do. What a selfish point of view, must be dealing with a Type A personality here.

Selfish is a company taking advantage of their employees. Nuts? No. We did what we had too. A vast majority was ready to burn her to the ground before we would settle for a POSTA. It is called self respect.
Put your head back in the sand. Go fly your shinny jet. You can now go to the bar a brag to the ladies. So sad what this industry is coming to. I will not be apart of the race to the bottom. You Skanza can go that route. There is always a group of the spinless out there that have to be dragged along kicking and screaming. If Flops is successful (and I hope they are) you can just send your extra earnings to the Local or some Charity. Because you will not have earned it.

 

[netjetwife]

......netjetwife, I appreciate your candor. You must be a female, given your user name. You present things calmly and don't reference guns and shortcomings. Good job.

Thanks Skanza, I think it's more productive to stick to the issues. It is easy for me to see the difference that a decent contract can make and I wish the same for the other frac families. The NJ pilots had to make a strong stand and it looks to me like the Options pilots will, as well. Unfortunately, frac pilots were taken advantage of/underpaid for so long that it seems normal and those advocating change are viewed as the radicals. I regret that happens but don't see much way around it. It is reasonable that the pilots and their families will feel angry at the situation. They gave up a lot to help build the business and weren't treated respectfully or fairly in return. History and human nature tells us that the bullying won't stop until the pilots stand up for themselves. The good news is that once they do management will begin to respect them.

We all know that valued employees are happier and more productive, and that things run smoother when there are written rules for all to follow. With a fair contract between them the pilots and management will both be able to concentrate on business without the distraction of labor strife.
If you've ever done a remodeling project you know that it has to look worse before it can get better--you have to be willing to tear down the old before you can build the new. The demolition phase can be very messy and unsettling. Skanza, please be patient with your fellow pilots. I believe that they truly want what is best for all involved or they would have moved on long ago. Those with roots in the neighborhood, remodel the house they're in. Those without ties just buy another house. Strong emotions only come from those who care. You might not read that in their male posts, but my woman's intuition tells me that it is there.
Regards,
NJW

 

[dime line]

"You just have to be dead serious about putting the place out of business and having to find a new job." Are you nuts? I still don't see what goos this will do. What a selfish point of view, must be dealing with a Type A personality

Spoken like a true pilot enjoying his first jet job. "Just happy to have a job", right skanza. You must be the pilot that I'm flying right now, "dosen't affect me".

 

[netjetwife]

It should surprise no one that the Options pilots are refusing to subsidize the company any longer. Strong language aside, what they are really saying is that if the company can't operate without paying them sub-par wages they shouldn't be in business. I see that as much less selfish than managers expecting professionals to be responsible for lives and planes worth millions of dollars while they are paid blue collar wages.

Actually, the attitude of being prepared to walk is common among those who prevail at the bargaining table. Those getting upset should ask themselves how good they personally are at negotiating. The ones who know how to make a deal in their favor will recognize the tactics that are used. Those who aren't good at bartering should read up on the subject so you will better understand what is happening. Realizing that it is all quite normal will increase your comfort factor.

Management has hired, at no small cost, advisers to help them crush the pilots' will to fight for the contract they deserve. Only by being equally determined to stand their ground and insist on the industry standards will the pilots be successful. Management knows what the going rate is for frac pilots; they could offer a fair deal and hammer out a contract quickly. They have chosen NOT to do that.....

Tell me again how selfish the pilots are because I can't see it. Please post the wages here and explain to me how greedy/selfish the request for professional compensation is. At the same time could you also post the salaries of the managers. I'd like to compare the two. NJW

 

[dime line]

Dont know the managers but just to refresh our members on this great website

Beechjet Captain pay

...............FLOPS................................... Net Jets

5yr...... 66372 peryr .............................90000/106,810

7ry.......73500 peryr..............................94,50/112,150

Notice the to numbers on the NJs side, They have the Option to work more, we don't get that option, Yea, we at FLOPS get mandatory vacation!!!!

 

[FR8DOG777]

Not entirely correct

Dint know the managers but just to refresh our members on this great website

Beech jet Captain pay

...............FLOPS................................... Net Jets

5yr...... 66372 Perry .............................90000/106,810

7ry.......73500 peryr..............................94,50/112,150

Notice the to numbers on the NJ side, They have the Option to work more, we don't get that option, Yea, we at FLOPS get mandatory vacation!!!!

let us not forget the "slide to poverty" rule FLOPS has. So in order to receive that 5 year captain pay you were probably with the company a lot longer. How is that for raping and pillaging.

 

[AceCrackshot]

Don't forget the contract imposed on you if they move you to a new aircraft.
Arms length contract, anyone?

Lies FLOPS told me...
Per diem is part of your salary.
We don't believe in training contracts.
We'll match whatever NetJets gets, because we need the flexibility of a non-union shop.
We'll always have the best health benefits.
You can live anywhere you like.