FLOPS giving a bribe

[choppengruven]

Ahh 4 posts and drinking the kool aid. Wow you sure know how to blend in! Go back to writing APR's or lying to the pilots. quote]

Why do I have to be in management if I don't agree with the way the pilot group is going about getting this contract?
It just appears to me that all this work is going into destroying the company. What will you have to show for your efforts?

What exactly do you mean by going about getting this contract? First, What is your participation level? Are you a volunteer? Or are you someone whom stands on the sidelines waiting for someone else to do all the work for you?

If working overtime, being avialble for call out with only 6 hrs of guranteed rest, staying in super 8 Motels, working all day hungry, flying broke airplanes just to "get the job done", being pressured into illeagal activities for the company's benefit. If all these things are what you are refering to as "destroying the company" then you need to understand this. I am merely a pilot I dont make the decisions that led us to this point. Management did.

If you dont have the Kahonas to stand up for yourself, please watch what you say about the rest of us who are standing up for our greater benefit.

Either you are on board or you're not. We used to have fence sitters here, guess what the fence is now gone and a line exist where it used to be. The question you need to ask yourself is "what side of that line do I want to stand on?" With my fellow pilots?( If you are one) Or on the side of management and their degradation of our jobs? It's your choice. Either you are for the cause or against it. There is not a fence anymore.

Every company in history has cried broke and going out of business every time a union came on property and negotiated a contract. Do we expect FLOPS to be different? No, Its the same ole song and dance.

Case and point. When NJ accomplished their CBA every frac got a raise. When all the while nothing but crickets was heard out of FLOPS. Then it was announced that the union organizers were very close with the cards for a vote. Suddenly FLOPS is working on a raise.( which we were never going to get). The union is voted in and less than 7 months they are telling us that they are broke, layoffs are in the future, we're going out of business. You pick which one was a lie.

The truth is it dont matter. The point I'm making is they are capable and willing to lie to the pilots at this company whith no remorse. They have no problem sticking the bone to you with out the common courtesy of the infamous reach around. Not me though, I'm crawling forward and standing up. For myself and anyone else that wants to come along.

So yes I will be glad to tell my next employer how I stood up for myself and how that same general attitude will follow me to my next job. Becuase I would rather hire a employee with a backbone tha a spineless yes man anyday. They are easier to respect.

 

[choppengruven]

Ahh 4 posts and drinking the kool aid. Wow you sure know how to blend in! Go back to writing APR's or lying to the pilots. quote]

Why do I have to be in management if I don't agree with the way the pilot group is going about getting this contract?
It just appears to me that all this work is going into destroying the company. What will you have to show for your efforts?

What exactly do you mean by going about getting this contract? First, What is your participation level? Are you a volunteer? Or are you someone whom stands on the sidelines waiting for someone else to do all the work for you?

If working overtime, being avialble for call out with only 6 hrs of guranteed rest, staying in super 8 Motels, working all day hungry, flying broke airplanes just to "get the job done", being pressured into illeagal activities for the company's benefit. If all these things are what you are refering to as "destroying the company" then you need to understand this. I am merely a pilot I dont make the decisions that led us to this point. Management did.

If you dont have the Kahonas to stand up for yourself, please watch what you say about the rest of us who are standing up for our greater benefit.

Either you are on board or you're not. We used to have fence sitters here, guess what the fence is now gone and a line exist where it used to be. The question you need to ask yourself is "what side of that line do I want to stand on?" With my fellow pilots?( If you are one) Or on the side of management and their degradation of our jobs? It's your choice. Either you are for the cause or against it. There is not a fence anymore.

Every company in history has cried broke and going out of business every time a union came on property and negotiated a contract. Do we expect FLOPS to be different? No, Its the same ole song and dance.

Case and point. When NJ accomplished their CBA every frac got a raise. When all the while nothing but crickets was heard out of FLOPS. Then it was announced that the union organizers were very close with the cards for a vote. Suddenly FLOPS is working on a raise.( which we were never going to get). The union is voted in and less than 7 months they are telling us that they are broke, layoffs are in the future, we're going out of business. You pick which one was a lie.

The truth is it dont matter. The point I'm making is they are capable and willing to lie to the pilots at this company whith no remorse. They have no problem sticking the bone to you with out the common courtesy of the infamous reach around. Not me though, I'm crawling forward and standing up. For myself and anyone else that wants to come along.

So yes I will be glad to tell my next employer how I stood up for myself and how that same general attitude will follow me to my next job. Becuase I would rather hire a employee with a backbone tha a spineless yes man anyday. They are easier to respect.

 

[Diesel]

The trusth hurts.

The burn it down ralley cry is the only time managment listened.

Sure everyone was quick to blame the pilots but only Managment had the key to stop it all at that very second.

 

[FR8DOG777]

I know where I stand

I know exactly where I stand. I say the same thing if you are not on my side than you are against me. I stand strong with my union. I promise you this, I can make your 8 day tour a living hell if I choose. I am not afraid to speak up and tell the the "Lazy Lucys" what I think about them. I promise you, you will eat alone, you will do more work than you ever thought possible, and I will tell all my real friends who you are and what you have been doing to hurt our families. Thats right, I believe that if you are doing anything against what the leadership has advised you are stealing food out of my children's' mouth. I can also say that if you are not my friend through this negotiation period you most likely won't be after. I think most of my union brothers and sisters feel the same way. Most won't flat out call you a scum bag, but I will. Most won't put your name on a public board for all to see, but I will. Most will sit quietly and keep their feelings and thought about you to themselves, but I won't . Everyday you go against the grain the longer it will take us to get our first contract behind us.
With all that said, the union is here and has been for several months. The many volunteers are working very hard to make this a respectable place for all of us to work. Even the low lives doing overtime. Any dissatisfaction you may have with our union is your own fault. If you don't like what you are seeing why not pay your dues so we can hold elections, and you run for a position yourself. Why not pay your dues and volunteer for a committee. I know why, because you can't get a job anywhere else. you don't have a strong enough spine to hold your head up high with the rest of us and just weak koolaid drinker. I hear all the time that well if you don't like your job you can quite. Well I love my job and I have a spine strong enough to hold my head up high. I probably could find a better job out there. I am going to stick it out to the end with FLOPS whatever that may bring. I am going to do everything in my power to ensure that all of the pilots at FLOPS receives the contract we deserve. What are you doing? Nothing but a lot of bitchng and complaining. I say to everyone that isn't on my side (with the union 100%). If you don';t have the spine to stand up for yourself let alone your fellow pilots then by all means you quit. That would be the best thing for FLOPS if all you overtime whores just quite to find yourself another job. We sure don't want you year stealing anymore food out of our mouths.

BTW: How much gas do you think I would need to burn er down?

 

[netjetwife]

Down with FUD

Why do I have to be in management if I don't agree with the way the pilot group is going about getting this contract? It just appears to me that all this work is going into destroying the company. What will you have to show for your efforts? I'm sure the new company you get hired on with would really like to hear the story of how you and some select few pilots brought a company down[/i]....

I don't think one has to be in management just because s/he is trying to dissuade fellow pilots from standing up for themselves, their families, and the profession. During the early days of the NJ contract battle, I spoke to a number of selfish and/or fearful NJ pilots and wives that also complained about the way the group was going about getting their contract. (And we all know how it turned out.) Unfortunately, worries of destroying the company are, in the beginning, as common as they are misguided. The fear is fueled by the advice of high-powered union-busters like F&H. Luckily, the pilots have "weapons" of their own: reality, common sense, and basic fairness are reinforced by the history lesson of those many groups who were at the table before them. As Chop correctly pointed out, "It's the same ole song and dance"....

The good news is that most of the pilots develop a backbone and/or conscience as the company continues to show their true colors of disrespect for the pilots and disregard for their families. Witness the recent slap in the face over health care. Are you saying, RF, that that was the right way to go about dealing with the situation... Talk about destruction! That was clearly intended to lower morale which notoriously causes a corresponding drop in productivity. If that also happens at Options, look whose fault it would be.

When the pilots have a fair/good contract to show for their efforts will you post a congratulations on this thread, RF? Not too many among the selfish and/or fearful have the decency or guts to do so. I guess if they had the former they wouldn't be the latter...huh? The NJ wife that called me and accused me of consigning her family to poverty never called back to share a moment of celebration over the pay raise; nonetheless, her family happily cashed their signing bonus check, I'm sure....

You can try to present abstract fears as reality, RF, but I prefer to offer Flt Ops pilots bona fide facts. There is wide spread respect-inside and outside of the frac industry-- for the vast majority of frac pilots who are standing up for themselves and their peers as they raise the bar on professional compensation/treatment for the pilots. NJW

 

[netjetwife]

To those few who have complained that I don't have a dog in this fight: Newsflash! I'm gonna adopt FR8DOG777.... because he stands up for frac families and tells it like it is.

Prior to the new CBA the NJ wages qualified our son for the reduced price "poor" kid lunch at his public school and another FO in our area was feeding his kids with WIC . I'm sharing this with those of you who might be making the mistake of thinking that FR8 is just speaking metaphorically about stealing food out of his kids' mouths. When wages are so low that frac pilots have to use govt assistance to feed their children, your refusal to help the cause is keeping them from feeding their families on their own. That's all the same in the end...

 

[jetwash]

Benefit costs are going up 159% at Flight Options
So will my fuel burns go up 159%


It will cost me $230 more per month for the same Benefits as I had last year.
You can bet I will burn more then $230 per DAY in fuel.

America is such a beautiful country, especially at FL290 going from coast to coast!

 

[netjetwife]

It's all quite true. Studies have shown that low morale drags productivity right down with it. Another harsh reality--stress is distracting, and disrespectful treatment by management engenders the same emotion in the work force, who then has no incentive to go the "extra mile". What a management-induced mess!

 

[Some guy]

Benefit costs are going up 159% at Flight Options
So will my fuel burns go up 159%


It will cost me $230 more per month for the same Benefits as I had last year.
You can bet I will burn more then $230 per DAY in fuel.

America is such a beautiful country, especially at FL290 going from coast to coast!

Will the extra fuel burn hurt the owner, or the company? I know that our owners pay fuel surcharges when the price is over "x" amount. Not sure how exactly everything is calculated, but the company may pass those extra fees on to the owner.

SG

 

[jonjuan]

Will the extra fuel burn hurt the owner, or the company? I know that our owners pay fuel surcharges when the price is over "x" amount. Not sure how exactly everything is calculated, but the company may pass those extra fees on to the owner.

SG

LOL. I thought the same thing. Jetwash is only stealing from his owner. The comany will pass along the costs. Interesting to see what will happen when the savvy owner being flown at 290 peaks up into the cockpit and asks why? Does he have the nads to say, "because my health care is going up, you are going to pay."

 

[FR8DOG777]

Well I am doing at least 159% less trips today than last year. By doing so it affects the owners and the company. My two biggest enemies.
The company, well they are the enemy for obvious reasons. The owners it may be a little more indirect. I feel that if I can disservice the owner and they get upset enough then they might cry to Shiatfinger and put pressure on him to settle a labor agreement with the pilots. Shiatfinger surely isn't listening to the pilots, maybe he will listen to the owners. Those are the people also paying Shiatfingers salary as well as the pilot's.

So owners here is a shout out to you(if you read this board). Plan on sitting around a long time waiting for that jet FLOPS promised you this holiday season. I hope your children are not as disappointed as mine this Christmas. Since its going to be tight around this house due to the pay cut we all just received. Have a safe flight on that cheap sub-par charter company they find for you to take your trip in that flogged out Lear.

 

[TurboHonda]

LOL. I thought the same thing. Jetwash is only stealing from his owner. The comany will pass along the costs. Interesting to see what will happen when the savvy owner being flown at 290 peaks up into the cockpit and asks why? Does he have the nads to say, "because my health care is going up, you are going to pay."

To quote one of our senior FLOPS pilots, "The best way to get a sheep herder's attention is to kill a few of his sheep."

'sides, the least of my worries is some passenger second guessing the way I'm flying. Anything you tell him will be taken out of context and used against you. So tell him nothing. Turn the seat belt light on and tell him to please observe it.

 

[HSDriver]

Traffic Saturation

LOL. I thought the same thing. Jetwash is only stealing from his owner. The comany will pass along the costs. Interesting to see what will happen when the savvy owner being flown at 290 peaks up into the cockpit and asks why? Does he have the nads to say, "because my health care is going up, you are going to pay."

Due to upper flight levels traffic saturation, atc assigned FL290. Also, they requested maximum forward speed. :laugh:

HS

 

[choppengruven]

LOL. I thought the same thing. Jetwash is only stealing from his owner. The comany will pass along the costs. Interesting to see what will happen when the savvy owner being flown at 290 peaks up into the cockpit and asks why? Does he have the nads to say, "because my health care is going up, you are going to pay."

Owners do not pay for the fuel on empty legs. Flops does.

 

[FR8DOG777]

To those few who have complained that I don't have a dog in this fight: Newsflash! I'm gonna adopt FR8DOG777.... because he stands up for frac families and tells it like it is.

Prior to the new CBA the NJ wages qualified our son for the reduced price "poor" kid lunch at his public school and another FO in our area was feeding his kids with WIC . I'm sharing this with those of you who might be making the mistake of thinking that FR8 is just speaking metaphorically about stealing food out of his kids' mouths. When wages are so low that frac pilots have to use govt assistance to feed their children, your refusal to help the cause is keeping them from feeding their families on their own. That's all the same in the end...

:0 Thanks NJW. With the current situation here at FLOPS I may need to be adopted. Or at least get some sort of sponsorship.
For just pennies a day you can help feed a FLOPS family. I will send you pictures and a profile of the FLOPS family you are sponsoring so you can share with your friends and family. So call today 866-505-1108. Send your money for FLOPS Family Sponsorship to IBT1108 630 Morrison RD. Ste. 110 Gahanna, OH 43230

 

[jetwash]

Don't forget about getting you aircraft deiced as well.

Since I can't see the top of tail I will need to get it de-iced to be safe. The wings might look good but you can't be sure, so better to take the delay and de ice the tail.

As for fuel burns I know what the company pays and what the owners pay. I may not have stated it clearly, but the added costs will go to the proper account.

 

[Random Flyer]

None of you ever answered my question.
When the company goes under, what will you have to show for it?

 

[TurboHonda]

None of you ever answered my question.
When the company goes under, what will you have to show for it?

Pride and dignity still intact, my FUD spreading friend.

 

[FR8DOG777]

None of you ever answered my question.
When the company goes under, what will you have to show for it?

I will be able to say I didn't let MS drive down the entire fractional industry. You say "when" like you have knowledge of such activity transpiring at FLOPS. All companies cry poor and threaten to close the doors during negotiations. My attitude is " I was looking for a job when I found this one." If FLOPS doesn't pony up the bucks soon I hope they do go under for the sake of every professional pilot out there. It is like stomping out what seems to be an incurable disease. If it comes to that, then I have a few years of service put in with a crappy company to show for it. Either way I see it, I win. FLOPS going out of business, or getting the pay we deserve. Also remember that if FLOPS closes the doors each and every over paid manager will be out of work. They will also be the people Raytheon blames for such an event. I am going to say something that may seem real shocking to most. FLOPS will pay us what we deserve before they will ever close down shop. When they find that it is Cheaper to make peace with the pilots they will do it. They will do whatever it takes to stay in business to save their own jobs including pay the pilots. You sir/ma'am can spread your FUD to some unsuspecting Koolaid drinker.

 

[Diesel]

The ability to hold you head high and say, "we didn't cave and end up like the airlines.... giving back and giving back till we work for peanuts with no self respect."

Looks like random flyer is the new familyguy.

Good luck with that. C u next tuesday.

 

[AceCrackshot]

None of you ever answered my question.
When the company goes under, what will you have to show for it?

An industry standard worth working for...you know, the months of your life in small metal tubes and hotel rooms.

Plus, only the Wall Street Journal Editorial page believes that pilot wages, not decades of mismanagement have ever caused an aviation organization to fail. Mike Sheeringa might have the distinction of causing three different outfits to fail, AmericaWest, Airways, and FLOPS. But its the pilot's fault. Right.

STFD. STFD. STFD.

 

[Fozzy]

Oh leave Random alone. He is just happy to be flying for a living. Would probably do it for (crew) food.

Anyways, the burn it down way of thinking is the only thing that got us a contract. But the rub is that you must mean it. If you are not serious about the very real posibility that your company may go under, you have already lost. We were dead serious.

 

[netjetwife]

RF, I did answer your question along the same lines as the others. The pilots will have self-respect and the admiration/gratitude of their peers in and outside of the frac industry. Just because it wasn't the answering you were looking for doesn't mean that it wasn't addressed.

If a company is so badly managed that it must rely on a large group of its employees to subsidize it, then obviously it is not fit to survive. Are you expecting Flt Ops to be allowed to pay less than the going rate for fuel, as well? Pilot salaries are a cost of doing business. Companies that can't afford to stay in business either fold or correct their mistakes. If Options can't make it on their own without the pilots carrying them then it's better for all concerned that the situation is revealed for what it is and Darwin's Theory runs its course. By making the company stop balancing the budget on the backs of the pilots they are forcing them to become a more efficient and responsible employer. That is in the best interest (long-term) of everyone involved. "Burn it down" is just a shortcut way of saying this. It's the pilots' way of telling the company to stand on their own and stop using the pilots as a crutch. NJW

 

[TurboHonda]

Fozzy and Netjetwife. Good replies.

Many years ago, I used a maintenance facility in Shreveport, LA. The manager was a man named George Watson. I know a lot of pilots might remember him. He had a large sign in his office that said:

GETTING PAID IS PART OF DOING BUSINESS AND WE'RE SERIOUS ABOUT DOING BUSINESS.

I don't recall that anyone was ever offended. They certainly didn't take their business elsewhere. FLOPS and some of the "me generation pilots" could learn a lesson from people like him.

 

[netjetwife]

Thanks, TH... I like that sign. It sounds like good advice to me.

 

[Phoenix]

Survival Of The Fittest

None of you ever answered my question.
When the company goes under, what will you have to show for it?

Like in nature, business is also survival of the fittest. There are many facets that comprise a fit company. One of them is employees that are happy with their company, feel that they are valued by the company, and that their work is appreciated by the company.

None of these sentiments are espoused by the vast majority of Flight Options Employees. The pilots started to express their dissatisfaction with Options management by voting for representation. Dissatisfaction with management is wide spread now and permeates the entire company. A Dispatcher told me following the huge pay cut we all took via our benefits cost increases, that there was not a person working in OCC that wasn't looking for another job. I would not be at all surprised to see the OCC and MX personnel start a union organization drive very soon. Without the whole hearted support and of it's employees Options will not survive.

Maybe this is what it will take for mother RTN to wake up and see what a moron they installed as CEO. RTN recognizing what Schreeinga has done to this company and the death spiral that he has put it in, is what needs to happen.

 

[netjetwife]

Well said Phoenix! It's nice to see you post, though I fully understand that you're very busy. This treat calls for a card... that will hold little interest to those not involved in a contract battle or similar struggle.

http://www.bluemountain.com/view.pd?i=151557768&m=1932&rr=y&source=bma999

 

[WabiSabi]

None of you ever answered my question.
When the company goes under, what will you have to show for it?

It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.
Emiliano Zapata

Get off of your knees Random Flyer

 

[netjetwife]

I agree! Walking beside your fellow pilots is surely more comfortable than being dragged into the brighter future the group has earned/deserves.

 

[Fallingbrick]

None of you ever answered my question.
When the company goes under, what will you have to show for it?

Look RF, I hope management at FLOPS gets their money back that they spent on your pitiful posting attempt. If you’re going to be a management mole, at least be good at it. I’m not sure if you’re a member of management, a consultant, an intern…it doesn’t really matter because your posts are completely transparent. The old saying goes ‘if something is worth doing, its worth doing well’ applies here. So on Monday morning when you stroll into the office, pour that cup of coffee, and log on to FI you should really give it your all. We all know you can do better, I mean come on…people pegged you in your first thread for Gods sake! I’m serious when I say that your efforts are not even worth entertainment value. It really is disappointing. Sigh…perhaps you’re not management material after all. :laugh: