FLOPS Aircraft in MIA

[B19 Flyer]

The carrier had no reaction to the comments of union officials, but spokesman Bill Mellon said the company's two top officers have taken no salary increase since they assumed their posts in 2001.
What's more, he said Northwest's CEO made less than comparable executives at Delta Air Lines, Continental Airlines and Alaska Air. Northwest is the nation's fourth-largest carrier. Delta is third-largest and Continental is fifth. Northwest's revenue is nearly four times that of Alaska Air.
"Executive compensation at Northwest is consistently significantly lower than that paid at other major Minnesota companies," Mellon said.
Total compensation for Anderson, Northwest CEO, was $2,802,788 for the year ended Dec. 31. His compensation was up 126.3 percent from the previous year's total compensation of $1,238,305.
Anderson's package included other compensation of $111,638 and restricted stock awards of $1,941,150. During the year Anderson exercised no stock options and was given no new options.
Copyright 2003 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

It's amazing how unions want to have compensation that compares them against their counterparts, but when CEO pay is compared against their counterparts, it's wrong.

Classic double standard by unions.

When an airline CEO moves on to a different business, they don't take pay cuts, they simply just change businesses. That is their market value.

You just can't deal with it, so get over it.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Why are you so selective?

My point isn 't to educate the ignorant, my point is to show the new guys that haven't been burned by organized labor yet how radical and destructive the thinking is.

How I'm treated is how they will be treated should they object.

All of you bite for it every single day.

 

[1po'dpilot]

My point isn 't to educate the ignorant, my point is to show the new guys that haven't been burned by organized labor yet how radical and destructive the thinking is.

How I'm treated is how they will be treated should they object.

All of you bite for it every single day.

It's good that your point isn't to educate the ignorant, if it were you would have to start with yourself SCAB.

 

[CaveoFalco]

It's amazing how unions want to have compensation that compares them against their counterparts, but when CEO pay is compared against their counterparts, it's wrong.

Classic double standard by unions.

When an airline CEO moves on to a different business, they don't take pay cuts, they simply just change businesses. That is their market value.

You just can't deal with it, so get over it.

Most if not all airline CEOs are overpaid by a long shot for the value they bring to an organization and for what they really do. Justifying airline CEO pay against each other when just about all of them in modern history have ruined the Company's they were charged to lead is preposterous. It is like justifying slavery in South Carolina because North Carolina had it.

Thanks God for unions - if it wasn't for APA, Don Carty would have ruined American Airlines. On behalf of upper management, he stole tens of millions of dollars from that Airline.

 

[WabiSabi]

My point isn 't to educate the ignorant, my point is to show the new guys that haven't been burned by organized labor yet how radical and destructive the thinking is.

Yet another cop-out. "Destructive" is EXACTLY the word to describe FLOPS management. This has been clearly shown to you over and over and again, your argument is so vacuous that you're to afraid of responding. I can see how that this is all you can muster being that you have yet to present a logical argument that holds any amount of water. Don't hold your breath because nobody is stupid enough to follow you.

How I'm treated is how they will be treated should they object.

All of you bite for it every single day.

No BOB, you are not a message board martyr. You're just a knee-jerk reactionary with a loud mouth that has produced nothing but drivel. There is room for intelligent (key word) debate and dissent.

BOB, If you're the only hope for an anti-union voice on these message boards, then you management lackey's internet propaganda campaign is in vain, scab.

 

[netjetwife]

Make no mistake, all serious labor negotiations are (almost entirely) about ego. Please do not think they are about lifestyle, profits, fair pay, etc. ... It is about the ego at the top of both side handling the negotiations....

This generalization partially applied during the NJ contract talks prior to the signing of the 2005 CBA. Here are 2 indicators of which side was the egotistical one: 1) Wages qualified pilots for government assistance (as low as 28K) and 2) a company leader (Boisture) got booted shortly after an agreement was reached. The grass roots movement that brought new leaders (StrongUnion) to the table was made possible because grossly underpaid members were so overwhelmingly supportive of SU's call for professional compensation commiserate with the pilotgroup's responsibility and contribution. Recall that over 90% voted to strike. For the NJ pilots it was clearly about economics and lifestyle (home basing, schedules, etc) --not ego. The same applies to the underpaid Options pilotgroup whose benefits are also below the industry standard.

Let's all talk about a recent (fractional) Company-Union interaction. When it comes to negotiations, Interest Based Bargaining is a different animal altogether. As my primary source described it: think of brain-storming sessions with a joint commitment to finding fair solutions to common concerns. Absolutely long-term viability of the company is very much a top concern shared by the NJ pilots and their families. Contrary to the FUD being desperately hurled by B19 it is possible to work together. The final IBB contract offered a 3rd schedule, paid personal time off, pay raises, signing bonuses, and 100 Crew Bases--up from the paltry 5 of Boisture's domicile debacle. IBB, voluntarily entered into 3 yrs early, was definitely about lifestyle, profits, fair pay, etc. Those are also the reasons workers organize their collective efforts to win/achieve parity with their industry peers. Every hour worked at sub-par wages is a loss for a frac pilot and his/her family.

As evidence of NJA's awareness of the damage caused by an over-inflated ego a personnel manager (RD) who lacked the cooperative spirit of IBB and refused to comply with the contract is no longer employed there. Changes were also made in training when egos got in the way there.

Basic fairness mandates that 1108 be judged on their own merits and their own track record. Nothing else is relevant in the fractional industry and inapplicable, prejudiced comments point to a hidden agenda by B19/Chicken Little who suspiciously wants underpaid frac pilots to think--in spite of 1108's excellent, fair record--that standing together for parity will cause the sky to fall.... The drum B19/VI incessantly bangs .. FUD FUD FUD .. just tells us all how out of step he is with common sense and economic reality.

PILOTS ARE PROFESSIONALS RESPONSIBLE FOR LIVES AND THEY SHOULD BE COMPENSATED ACCORDINGLY

 

[dime line]

B19 is a paid Ford and Harrison goon, he is doing his job on this board

Well said NJwife

 

[netjetwife]

Thanks, DL. I wholeheartedly agree that B19 has no credibility and his purpose in posting is extremely suspect. 1108 pilots understand that they are the Union. They are the ones who have decided to stand up together for their right to work under a contract. The pilots themselves are best suited to represent their own interests--no question about it.

All frac pilots essentially do the same job so big disparities in pay are not justified. The companies need to stop balancing the books on the back of the pilotgroup and pay these professionals fairly. No one can look at the low wages in the industry and honestly suggest that the pilots are asking for a lavish salary. B19 isn't just anti-union; the end result is that he's anti-pilot. Frac families give up a lot for the sake of the job and that must be compensated for. Working with the pilots is the right thing to do for the entire company and the owners. Having burned out, stressed out pilots wondering how they're going to make ends meet is a penny-wise, pound-foolish approach with potentially dangerous consequences. NJA and 1108 have proved that there's a better way and they deserve credit for that accomplishment. The industry standard has been set and every frac pilot is justified in seeking a comparable contract that recognizes the valuable contribution they make with every flight. Good Luck at the bargaining table! NJW

 

[NJAowner]

Several points - and I am short on time tonight so I will be short in response.

My comment about union negotiations and strikes being about ego was about ego on both sides. Very rarely, is it an ego just on one side.

I am no fan of unions (though if you read my posts I was one for a few years). But there is something wrong when most union executives make several times as much in salaray and benefits and perks than the members. You will say so do the corporate executives -- but they work for the shareholders and the shareholders are usually fine with the compensation. Over time, many of your former working colleagues become very comfortable when they switch to a full time union job and no longer have to do the same work as the rest of you. While now your local of the union may be interested in you, do not forget all of the years you had a different local/leadership and all of your dues supported many non-pilot aviation members. Was it 20 years? You were only granted your own local after the threat of leaving the union.

The argument which appears on this board weekly that fractional owners are rich and won't miss a few extra dollars is the single worst assumption that can be made. The majority of "ultra wealthy" people I know are much cheaper than the "non ultra wealthy". If you do not believe me, just ask the waiters at a local fine restaurant. I know many an "ultra wealthy" who have spent 30 minutes arguing over a $1 local call in a hotel even though it was posted trying to argue it was unreasonable. Please, do not confuse the two.

Fly safe.

 

[netjetwife]

... My comment about union negotiations and strikes being about ego was about ego on both sides. Very rarely, is it an ego just on one side. For the reasons I listed above the NJ pilots are in the rare occurrence category. 1108 is run by volunteers who wouldn't be motivated to sacrifice personal time if they were just propping up an ego.

I am no fan of unions (though if you read my posts I was one for a few years). It may interest readers to learn that the CEO of NJA stated that he is glad the pilotgroup is unionized because 1108 helps keep the company safe by empowering the pilots to resist pressure from schedulers. Contractual work rules are a safety net. But there is something wrong when most union executives make several times as much in salary and benefits and perks than the members. If you are referring to Teamsters National then I agree. 1108 is not like the IBT and I'd support any splinter movement for the NJ pilots to give Teamsters the boot. For the record, 1108 volunteers/leaders can actually wind up losing income (overtime, holiday pay, etc) when they don't get to fly because of Union and/or joint committee projects. That has often been the case with my husband. ... Over time, many of your former working colleagues become very comfortable when they switch to a full time union job and no longer have to do the same work as the rest of you. That is not applicable to 1108. In reality, serving the greater good entails a lot of personal/family sacrifice and more hours. Most of the elected leaders and all of the volunteers still fly the line, as my husband does, plus they do Union work at home. The leaders and committee chairmen are always available to the membership whereas the line pilots can totally disconnect from the job on their days off. While now your local of the union may be interested in you (The pilots themselves are the Local. Their self-interest got them where they are today--leading the industry). do not forget all of the years you had a different local/leadership and all of your dues supported many non-pilot aviation members. Was it 20 years? You were only granted your own local after the threat of leaving the union. Growing in numbers and determination also had a lot to do with it. The NJ pilotgroup hasn't forgotten how far they've come on their own and I think most are willing to stand completely alone without the Teamsters.
The argument which appears on this board weekly that fractional owners are rich and won't miss a few extra dollars is the single worst assumption that can be made. Here and on the NJ board I've read posts showing appreciation for the client base. In the case of the NJ pilots, they knew all during contract negotiations that the money was there in the management fees (already being charged) to pay professional wages. The pilots also saw firsthand lots of examples of wasted money. There have been many posts here from Options pilots calling for management to get better at doing their job. No one involved in the industry should expect the pilots to sell short their professional skills/experience. Their salaries should be viewed no differently from the fuel that is purchased--at the market rate--for the planes. The majority of "ultra wealthy" people I know are much cheaper than the "non ultra wealthy". ....

I think that insisting on getting good value for their money is a big concern for lots of people. (I shop in outlet stores... ) That said, realistic consumers don't expect to get a quality steak dinner for the price of a hamburger. Likewise, business minded pax know that if a frac company won't pay the going rate they can't attract and retain the experienced pilots the owners expect to have. I can't imagine any owner being willing to cut corners when it comes to their safety, nor will they want their pilots flying tired. So if it comes down to raising wages or lowering standards, it seems to me the choice is clear.
My regards,
Netjetwife