FLOPS 2 400a Flameouts

[Coool Hand Luke]

What I heard last week while talking to a FLTOPS crew:

Prist was not an issue on the first one, although commonly reported as such.
Second one was not a prist issue either. They said Raytheon believes it is a stator icing issue (no stator AI on the Beechjet) disturbing airflow into the LP compressor and thus the flameouts. By the way, I guess the guys on the second dual-flamout dead-sticked it into JAX with peanut gyro only and a 1000' ceiling and only blew one main gear tire. Nice job guys. By the way, sometime after landing the engines were restarted with no problems.

 

[pamed19]

What I heard last week while talking to a FLTOPS crew:

Prist was not an issue on the first one, although commonly reported as such.
Second one was not a prist issue either. They said Raytheon believes it is a stator icing issue (no stator AI on the Beechjet) disturbing airflow into the LP compressor and thus the flameouts. By the way, I guess the guys on the second dual-flamout dead-sticked it into JAX with peanut gyro only and a 1000' ceiling and only blew one main gear tire. Nice job guys. By the way, sometime after landing the engines were restarted with no problems.

I would be happy to fly with both sets of pilots anytime.I do believe my heart would not have kept going after what they went through.Many thanks to all for their comments.

 

[HSDriver]

The Truth

What I heard last week while talking to a FLTOPS crew:

Prist was not an issue on the first one, although commonly reported as such.
Second one was not a prist issue either. They said Raytheon believes it is a stator icing issue (no stator AI on the Beechjet) disturbing airflow into the LP compressor and thus the flameouts. By the way, I guess the guys on the second dual-flamout dead-sticked it into JAX with peanut gyro only and a 1000' ceiling and only blew one main gear tire. Nice job guys. By the way, sometime after landing the engines were restarted with no problems.

Yes, this is what I heard from talking to the pilot that was flying. If it was due to prist/ lack of sumping, etc, there would be jets flaming out all over the place. How many corporate/charter guys do you see out draining their jets' sumps every morning? You guys can say whatever you wish but I've been flying jets for a while at multiple companies and it just is not done by crews.

And Pamed19... No offense, but if you feel like you have to double check your flight crews' preflight then you need to be flying somewhere else. Like somebody said, you should be worried more about their duty day, how much they had to rush to pick you up on time, how they have to rush your flight to get to the next one on time, proper feeding, etc, etc, etc...

HS

 

[Choppy]

So...why don't you tell us your theory, oh enlightened one... By the way....Netjets has not been operating the Beechjet nearly as long as Options, nor do they have nearly as many of them...therefore, they have not flown anywhere near as many hours.

I have no idea what caused either dual flameout. I can speculate, but I'm not that much of an idiot to think that I can determine the cause without knowing all pertinent information...but, apparently, you feel you can...so enlighten us.

Well, now you get a couple of other people that have talked to the pilots and they have said also that it was not prist! The reason that I am wound up about this is because Raytheon doesn't want to face reality that they might have a problem. They just want to blame it on the pilots about the prist issue. They have sold hundreds of beechs to forgein countries and not one has flamed out. Yes, flops flys alot but just try and firgure out how many hours this airplane has on it and you have to go all the way back to the diamond. I just don't buy the prist issue, that's all! As I said before, there is something really strange about it only happening to Floptions. I know a lot of operators that put 500 to 650 hours on the beechs a year so don't start with the "They fly more than anyone else" theory!

 

[h25b]

Well, now you get a couple of other people that have talked to the pilots and they have said also that it was not prist! The reason that I am wound up about this is because Raytheon doesn't want to face reality that they might have a problem. They just want to blame it on the pilots about the prist issue. They have sold hundreds of beechs to forgein countries and not one has flamed out. Yes, flops flys alot but just try and firgure out how many hours this airplane has on it and you have to go all the way back to the diamond. I just don't buy the prist issue, that's all! As I said before, there is something really strange about it only happening to Floptions. I know a lot of operators that put 500 to 650 hours on the beechs a year so don't start with the "They fly more than anyone else" theory!

I am wondering who else besides FLIOPS has experienced the flameouts ??? I have only heard of the Flight Options ones. I just think it is sort of odd that it has happened to on operator twice. Sure they put a lot of hours on the ones they have, but it still seems strange to me.

 

[FracCapt]

As I said before, there is something really strange about it only happening to Floptions. I know a lot of operators that put 500 to 650 hours on the beechs a year so don't start with the "They fly more than anyone else" theory!

I'll say it again....enlighten us with YOUR theory on what's happening. You indicate that it's something that Options crews are doing wrong...what would that be?

As for the 500-650 hours per year thing....all I was getting at is that when you compare a flight department that puts 500-650 hours a year on a Beechjet, as opposed to a company that puts 50,000+ hours per year on many Beechjets....who do you think is bound to have more issues?

 

[pamed19]

Other dual flameouts

I have read that a 400a had the same problem in Brazil and a CitationII with the same engines did the same thing last summer in Alaska.

 

[pamed19]

Suggestion: Sell your share in the 400A and buy a Sovereign.

QUICK!

You will not regret it.

We are working on that even as I write

 

[Choppy]

I'll say it again....enlighten us with YOUR theory on what's happening. You indicate that it's something that Options crews are doing wrong...what would that be?

As for the 500-650 hours per year thing....all I was getting at is that when you compare a flight department that puts 500-650 hours a year on a Beechjet, as opposed to a company that puts 50,000+ hours per year on many Beechjets....who do you think is bound to have more issues?

Well, it is obvious who you work for! I haven't had any theories but you seem to think that I have all the answers! That's why there are question marks at the end of my lines??? All I was doing was stating the obvious... All aircraft were beechjets, not the only ones with jt15D's and it was the same company.. Floptions. Does that p#ss you off that I can state the facts and you or your company can't debate it??? Does it P#ss you off that your company is going down the tubes and you can't get union on board??

I was not going to attack you personally but you brought me in here stating that I have all the answers... maybe you are closer to the company and can tell us what you company's NEW procedure is for TOD??? It's a doozie!!

 

[greygoose]

We are working on that even as I write

Did you build a bomb shelter under your house?