Flight Works

[scar1900]

Any past or present Flight Works pilots? I would like to apply for a position at their HEF offices and was wondering about the usual stuff (pay, QOL, upgrade)... Everyone who I've talked to said that they are a great company, but none had actually worked there.

 

[sleepy]

I flew for them just before they became Flightworks (they were AVTECH Executive Flight Center before, but that went bankrupt). It wasn't bad for charter back then, but that was back in 1998.

I hear good and bad things about them in Atlanta. I don't really know?

 

[Roadblock]

You will not get any honest information other than positive comments about Flightworks from any current or previous employees. Flightworks' management has a history of reviewing these forums looking for current employees comments. Last summer just prior to my leaving Flightworks (I was not fired), I was disciplined for posting an honest assessment of the job, I also posted salaries ranges and was told that was confidential company information. I was not negative in my assessment but I was told by DO and CP that my comments were inappropriate. You can search for my previous threads. The company has also sued previous employees for leaving for 91 gigs, that the company alleges the pilots obtained while flying the client on a Flightworks A/C. So don't expect to see any current or recent employees opinions on here. Decided on the job based on your own observations during the interview.

 

[AA717driver]

With management like that, it's got to be a great place to work... TC

 

[Dep676]

You will not get any honest information other than positive comments about Flightworks from any current or previous employees. Flightworks' management has a history of reviewing these forums looking for current employees comments. Last summer just prior to my leaving Flightworks (I was not fired), I was disciplined for posting an honest assessment of the job, I also posted salaries ranges and was told that was confidential company information. I was not negative in my assessment but I was told by DO and CP that my comments were inappropriate. You can search for my previous threads. The company has also sued previous employees for leaving for 91 gigs, that the company alleges the pilots obtained while flying the client on a Flightworks A/C. So don't expect to see any current or recent employees opinions on here. Decided on the job based on your own observations during the interview.

How did they know it was you posting the stuff anyway?

Yeah sounds like a place that I would want to be at.

 

[casper1nine]

to the good- looks like good mtc, an organized and professionally run operation.

to the negative- you will for the most part be seat locked into the aircraft you're hired for, which will be explained to you in the interview. these are only my personal observations, based on a lot of reading between the lines, but basically, once you have some time in type, your employment options open up, and you become too expensive for them to keep. so, with that said, it is my impression, that rather than give you promotions or raises, they prefer you move on to another job, so you can be replaced at entry level pay. i get the impression that the fo's have a high turn over, but that the ca's are career types.

what few upgrades there are, seem to be based on your marketability as a pilot(time in type + TT), performance, and lastly seniority.

ce500 series fo pay = ~34k... if i recall.

-casper

 

[DAL737FO]

Everyone who I've talked to said that they are a great company, but none had actually worked there.

So just out of curiousity who were you talking to and what were they basing their assessment on if they never worked there?

 

[scar1900]

I was talking to a friend of mine who works for a citation operator...I don't know where he got his info from.

 

[400A]

I have two friends that work there and they are pretty happy. The smaller the equipment, the more you will appear to work. Citation and Hawker guys fly a bunch. Thay just picked up a 400A in RYY.

As for the going after pilots that picked up #91 gigs working there, that cracks me up. I once put my boss on one of their planes while we were in maint, and the minute they closed the door (with me standing right outside the plane) he was presented with a full management proposal drom Scott Beal. I guess the ethics thing only a one way street.

That will not happen again.

 

[FlyFlyFly]

I would say that FlightWorks is a good place to work. And you will work, it is a 135 operator. Promotions are now mostly internal after you have 1 year in a new type. We are growing, and with that opportunities are too. You will get 5 scheduled days off a month, maybe more if your aircraft is fully staffed (3 pilots per). Over the last year, I have averaged about 10 days a month. Pay is NBAA low to mid average and the benefits are standard. The training is good with all pilots typed in their A/C (no 3 bounce stuff).

The company has been in transition over the last 2 years and there was an unbelievable amount of turnover when I first came to work. The Citation fleet saw 100% in my first year, but that has stablized with pay increases and the changing of promotion policies.

I would encourage you to interview and ask questions. You be the judge. Hopefully this helps.

I am not aware of management trolling the boards, but I do know several pilots lurk here. There have been employees in the past that engaged in online pissing contests and were disciplined when complaints brought the situation to management's attention.

 

[temcgrew]

I worked there when it was avtech and then went on to work for another 135 company. The chief pilot of the 2nd one is now the CP of FlightWorks. I'm sure he has made alot of improvements there. He is a great peoples person and always looks to improve morale and lifestyle of the pilots.
The owner is a strong management type who will always have buisness cooked up for you to fly.

What's up SLEEPY? what are you up to these days?

 

[Carlos O'Maley]

I worked there when it was avtech and then went on to work for another 135 company. The chief pilot of the 2nd one is now the CP of FlightWorks. I'm sure he has made alot of improvements there. He is a great peoples person and always looks to improve morale and lifestyle of the pilots.
The owner is a strong management type who will always have buisness cooked up for you to fly.

Was that question meant to be sarcastic?

If it was not, you would be the first person that I have ever come across that has had even a slightly positive thing to say about the current CP... and yes, I have come across more than a few. But, I'm sure there are some out there that do share your feelings, I just don't know any of them.

A couple of the direct "improvements" since he has been there:

1. Number of guaranteed days off a month has dropped from 10 to 5 (and I'll bet some of there pilots would argue about what that guarantee is worth) .... Big morale booster there.

2. The first lay-offs in the companies history which were a direct result of the CP's efforts to change the standing scheduling policies which were in accordance with FAR's to an illegal 24 hour on-call system (Required to report for immediate flight assignments for multiple and consecutive 24 hour periods) for many pilots. Real good improvement to lifestyle!

Generally, ask a current FW Citation or Hawker pilot how much their lifestyle has improved recently. Not much, and all the ones I know are NOT happy with current conditions or specifically the CP. But I don't think many will make comments on here, because management has monitered these boards and disciplined people for contributing information they didn't like although it was factual.

Note that FlyFlyFly is the only current pilot to post, all the others are previous pilots or pilots that "know" someone at FW. I would agree with him that the training is good. But his post definitely describes some problems. The pay is lower than NBAA averages in all types, most crews get minimum off days (5 or so days off and at home a month is NOT much) and there is large turnover.

Many airframes are purposely not "fully" staffed with a MINIMUM of 3 pilots although the management insures its crews at hiring and on-going that that will be the "policy". I think the lack of candidates accepting new-hire positions has more to do with internal promotions than any change in management. When you have a large turnover and can't get many newhires to come in, the company has to promote more from within. Bottomline with staffing and upgrades, the company has a history of preferential staffing and hiring that is not based on merit or seniority.

I would agree with FlyFlyFly on a second point, interview, ASK questions, and judge for yourself... but, I would definitely get the answers in writing.

 

[temcgrew]

well, let me go a step further and say the LH has also been known to help the pilots who work for him by giving them great references, specifically at Southwest Airlines. There were a couple of guys at my last company who, despite the great referal, did not get hired by LUV. I guess thier interview skills were not very good, because they got turned down twice! Later LH was overheard bragging about the "fantastic" reference that he gave for them.

I miss his influence in my life, so does my wife and kids who affectionately called him "UNCLE LARRY".

 

[flydaddy0499]

Was that question meant to be sarcastic?

If it was not, you would be the first person that I have ever come across that has had even a slightly positive thing to say about the current CP... and yes, I have come across more than a few. But, I'm sure there are some out there that do share your feelings, I just don't know any of them.

A couple of the direct "improvements" since he has been there:

1. Number of guaranteed days off a month has dropped from 10 to 5 (and I'll bet some of there pilots would argue about what that guarantee is worth) .... Big morale booster there.

2. The first lay-offs in the companies history which were a direct result of the CP's efforts to change the standing scheduling policies which were in accordance with FAR's to an illegal 24 hour on-call system (Required to report for immediate flight assignments for multiple and consecutive 24 hour periods) for many pilots. Real good improvement to lifestyle!

Generally, ask a current FW Citation or Hawker pilot how much their lifestyle has improved recently. Not much, and all the ones I know are NOT happy with current conditions or specifically the CP. But I don't think many will make comments on here, because management has monitered these boards and disciplined people for contributing information they didn't like although it was factual.

Note that FlyFlyFly is the only current pilot to post, all the others are previous pilots or pilots that "know" someone at FW. I would agree with him that the training is good. But his post definitely describes some problems. The pay is lower than NBAA averages in all types, most crews get minimum off days (5 or so days off and at home a month is NOT much) and there is large turnover.

Many airframes are purposely not "fully" staffed with a MINIMUM of 3 pilots although the management insures its crews at hiring and on-going that that will be the "policy". I think the lack of candidates accepting new-hire positions has more to do with internal promotions than any change in management. When you have a large turnover and can't get many newhires to come in, the company has to promote more from within. Bottomline with staffing and upgrades, the company has a history of preferential staffing and hiring that is not based on merit or seniority.

I would agree with FlyFlyFly on a second point, interview, ASK questions, and judge for yourself... but, I would definitely get the answers in writing.

I currently fly the Citation 500-series for FW and I am happy. O'Maley, if you have never worked for LH or had a direct and personal relationship with him, then I suggest you keep you thoughts to yourself. You are rumor-mongering and it's not necessary to make your point. FW management has been nothing but fair to me and everyone I know in every situation I have faced. I try to make an extra effort to make a phone call or send an email when I am not sure of the situation or hear a rumor that might affect me. Not once has management been dismissive or rude to my inquiry. If you don't know then ASK!

Secondly, it's always easier to sling sh!t than it is to volunteer to pick it up. If anyone has a suggestion to make life easier for us at FW, then send it to Mr. Beale and quit wasting time on this board. While I do not agree with everything that rolls down the hill my way, if life were as bad at FW as some have suggested, then go start your own company. This is a free market economy and you may choose to work where you wish.

I am grateful for my job, my family, and my friends. Yes I do have gripes and complaints but one can choose how to deal with such things and I choose to talk to the ones whom I have the problem with or the ones who have the power to affect change.

Flydaddy

 

[Carlos O'Maley]

UEJ500,

I certainly respect your relationship and opinion of LH and I don't feel my post suggested otherwise. However, I feel safe in saying that myself and the crewmembers I know would NOT miss his influence at FlightWorks. That said, your family's personal relationship with him sounds very genuine and is just that, personal. I respect that and appreciate the comments.

I don't understand the point of your statement regarding the references. Isn't it the direct responsibility of a CP and customary of fellow crewmembers to give an accurate reference for an employee to a perspective employer. So, unless your suggesting these particular guys didn't deserve it and he did it just to help them, I don't understand the point. But, more telling, is that you point out he was known to "brag" about the fantastic references he gave. That sounds strikingly arrogant to me, and would be fitting a self-proclaimed FAR and aviation management expert.

Look, I am not inclined to turn this into a LH or FlightWorks bashing thread, especially on a board where he may or may not be here to defend himself. I am simply and directly replying to your comments about being "sure" he has made improvements at FW. From my perspective he has not made any improvements and I gave factual examples, not rumors, of some changes he has been a party to. He very well may have been an excellent CP where you worked together. IMHO and all those I knew of prior to this thread, he is not at FW. In fairness, I will respectfully acknowledge that I now know of someone that has enjoyed working for him.

Lets simply agree that you and some you know have had different experiences working for him than myself and those I know. Hopefully we'll have some cold-ones next time we cross paths.

flydaddy0499,

I asked for comments from some current FW pilots and thank you for yours. I am glad you are happy, and I wish all to be. Let me be very clear, I didn't say there were no "happy FW pilots", I did say that I didn't know any Citation or Hawker pilots that were happy with the conditions (i.e. scheduling) and the CP. If you are, then I respect that and progress, I now know one... and I hope there are more.

Now as for you suggestion regarding my thoughts, let me give that its due regard....o'kay, I did, and here come my thoughts. I do work for FlightWorks and have for a number of years, thus, I have worked directly with LH. I am not "rumor-mongering" in the least. I don't know how long you have worked at FW, but everything I have stated is fact. I recall the first Flightinfo debacle surrounded some of the members whom have posted in this thread and "Aerowolf". He was a new-hire at the time and had a very similar opinion as yours regarding the company and management. I wonder if his opinions have changed over the last year or so.

My point is that you may have not been here long enough for any of these things to have changed for you, observed a lot, or had any serious dealings, yet. Like I said above, I am not here to bash anyone and I'm not slinging anything. Furthermore, I appreciate your thoughts on addressing individuals directly, dealing with issues and trying to improve things, and have done so here. I have known SB for sometime and I, and many others wiser than myself, have made suggestions and devoted time to make this company a better place. But I was replying directly to comments about the current CP. It is a matter of fact that this current management team, specifically including the CP, has delibirately mislead and been directly and purposely dishonest to crews on more than one occasion, on an individual and collective basis. The examples I gave are a matter of fact directly in response to UEJ500's comments. That's it. No rumors.

Look, this board was designed as an Aviation Interview Board to help share information about companies and to provide people with as much information, good and bad, in making employment decisions. I'm not telling people to run from FW. In fact, I encouraged people to interview and judge for themselves. I am proud of my job here and I welcome new pilots to enrich the company. But like you, there are particular things I don't agree with... it happened to be related to UEJ500's comments so I shared what I know.

Lastly, I do want to add that without exception, I enjoy the pilots I fly with at FlightWorks. They're an excellent group of pilots. I know FlyFlyFly... I know DAL737FO... I know Roadblock... excellent guys and you should value their opinions. flydaddy0449.. I'm sure your the same or you wouldn't be here and hopefully we can share a cockpit at flightworks one day.

See ya


.

 

[KingDriver]

What is the pay in the Gulfstreams and Hawkers for F. O.'s and Captains?

 

[DAL737FO]

Look guys this is getting to be how the last thread ended up (And yes lawyers got involved). You're all big boys here. If you have an interview at FlightWorks go and get a first hand look at the operation. Once you're there I would suggest maybe talking to someone that is currently flying in the aircraft that you will be flying. QOL varies greatly between aircraft fleets. I would also talk to someone that has been there for over a year and the honeymoon phase may have worn off.

 

[temcgrew]

if you have never worked for LH or had a direct and personal relationship with him, then I suggest you keep you thoughts to yourself. You are rumor-mongering and it's not necessary to make your point.

Hello larry! How is HawkerF/O doing these days?

 

[Carlos O'Maley]

Uej500

I thought your posts seemed quite sarcastic, that's why I asked to begin with. Thanks for clearing it up.

It definitely seems to be a fairly unanimous opinion held by all that have worked with LH in the past. Most I have come across felt strongly enough to offer their opinions and "warnings" about his actions and history without solicitation. I think the point is made.

 

[flydaddy0499]

Uej500

Take a look at my profile....I am quite sure that LH has more than one type rating and 2700 hours.