Flight training device logging?

[Mickey]

PIC + SIC + DUAL does not have to equal TT
It is normal to have PIC and DUAL at the same time if the pilot is rated in the aircraft he or she is flying and is receiving instruction.
SE + ME + GL + etc... = TT

Look at 61.51
This deals with logbooks.
You could have PIC DUAL FTD and Simulated IMC
(g)(4) A flight simulator or FTD may be used by a person to log instrument time....
Now since most people don't do most of their flying in a sim, the convention has been to only log it as Simulator time, however, that does not tell the whole story in your logbook.
Flight crews use simulators to log visual as well as IMC approaches. In initial training the flight crews are receiving dual. On checkrides they are not receiving dual. Do they only log it as sim time? They person on the left should be PIC SIM simulated IMC and some VMC and perhaps even some DUAL. While the pilot might only be logging it as simulator, I guarantee the company is logging it as a lot more.

Good luck. Clear as mud,isn't it?

 

[Goffer]

I've understood Duel to be time logged with and instructor in an aircraft. All of my FTD time was only noted under the simulator column. Also none of my FTD time is counted as simulated instrument. I need to find a concrete answer for this... Guess I've got another assignment for the weekend.

 

[Glideslope!]

PIC+SIC+DUAL should = TT ???

NO WAY.
If a student is rated in an A/C and recieving flight instruction such as a private pilot recieving an instrument rating, commercial rating, CFI or II rating and he is the one flying, which he should be, then he should be logging PIC as sole manipulator and DUAL RECIEVED also. The CFI should also be logging PIC as the person in charge of the flight. The only time you can log "trainer" time is with a CFII giving you DUAL instruction in the trainer. Although the CFII is teaching you it does NOT go in the dual collumn.The trainer also has to be FAA approved. No "trainer or sim time" without the CFII. The post above was correct about using 50 hrs of "dual "given in the "sim" towards the commercial. If you have all your ratings it is not uncommon at all for these three times not to add up. It was also not a problem for me during interviews.

Too bad I can't add in the 750+hrs of "dual" given in the Frasca's to my TT

 

[Avi8tor2000]

Ok, bottom line.

Like I said before FTD is dual given.

No, PIC + SIC + Dual should not = Total because:

When a pilot is receiving instruction towards an instrument, commercial, CFI, or basically anything other than a private, he is logging both PIC and dual instruction received.

 

[Speedtree]

minority report

Call it what you want but in my interpretation, the CFI is the PIC of the aircraft regardless of whether the pilot is rated. You may claim to be the sole manipulator of the controls as a private pilot working on an instrument ticket etc. but the instructor has the option to take the controls at any time in which case you no longer are the sole manipulator.

If my students want to log PIC time and Dual received, I let them. I personally do not. Most regional airlines and others may not care but your times on the airline grids will work out much easier and they do not regard dual received as PIC. In most cases they don't care about the 50-100 hours of SEL time you logged both ways anyways. Its the MEL that counts.

We can wade around in the gray areas and find many different opinions. I've seen FAA authorities state both sides. I log it more conservatively and it makes for a neater logbook in my opinion.

Back to the FTD/Sim topic.

FAR 61.51 (b)(2). lists 1-5 types of pilot experience
solo
pic
sic
dual
sim training

Log more than one per flight if you want. I like to keep my simulator time separate from my flight time in all categories. Most times when you are asked for instrument time they are talking about flight time and if they want sim time they ask for it.

As for the insrument time in the sim. I have run into that problem as well because I have some sim time that was visual. It does say right in the FARs that you may log sim time as instrument time so it's legal.

 

[bobbysamd]

Sim time v. total time

I agree, keep your sim time separate from your aircraft time. It makes for easier bookkeeping. Airline apps deviate from generally-accepted timekeeping practices in so many ways. It's just easier to take times out of your logbook and give the airlines what they want.

 

[OR_MEI]

I think the only usefulness of logging FTD time is for saving some money in the instrument or commercial rating. Being a CFI now and caring what the interviewers think I don't log any FTD time. When I get on the simulator to practice my scan is hardly important to anyone but me. The real experience comes from fly approaches to minimums with students.

Also, flight time as sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which you are rated for (Category and Class) is PIC. If you are rated for a ASEL and don't have a complex endorsedment it is still PIC when you are manipulating the controls of a complex airplane.

 

[Hovernut]

Log that sim time!

OR_MEI, log that sim time!! But keep it separate as mentioned in the previoius posts. When I presented my resume to the Comair interview captain, he asked what the FTD number was for on my flight times. I told him it was instrument time in a sim (FTD...Frasca). He added that time to my airplane instrument time to see if I had at least the "magic 10%" instrument time as compared to my total time. They do indeed look at it.

When I was instructing, I logged everything! We had to teach PCATDs to Inst. and Comm students and I made a temporary column to track how much dual I gave in both the PCATD and FTD. I didn't put that anywhere on my resume because I wasn't going for another instructing job and it's irrelevent to the airlines. I logged it primarily because management made us turn in a record of instruction given in a/c, sims, etc, so it was more of a short-term log.

I get a kick out of people who hold licenses beyond Commercial who still log solo After all, we need only log those hours required to maintain proficiency or gain a rating. I've long ago closed out the 'ol solo column in my logbook!