Flight Options

[Sun Tzu]

Is there any talk about flight options taking a vote to become part of the teamsters?

If Netjets leaves the teamsters is there a chance of a independent union that the other fractionals may become part of.

It seems that would be a very good move for both groups of pilots. I have never been part of a union and would like to see how the next year turns out.

I am sitting on the sidelines waiting for the industry to play out a little more. I have another 1 1/2 before I retire from the Airforce. If the pay comes up a bit I would like to continue my flying career, and fractional flying sounds like fun.

 

[boxhauler]

Flight Options was the only loser among the 4 major players as far as growth and profit. If anybody needed a union, they do. Management is responsible for unions on the property.

One scenario at NetJets is to leave the local 284 and the Airline Division and have our own local within the IBT.

 

[dime line]

Hey Boxhauler, tell me if I'm wrong but I think that Flex had no growth and showed a loss this quarter. That was in AIN. I agree with what you say about management and unions.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not happy here at Options, and I did send in my card!


And Sun, first congrats with your future retirement, your sure did earn it. Now reality, For us nasty civillians, the fractionals are Careers first, and then fun, we are all underpaid, so if you come over to Options get ready to make under 40000 for the next 4 years, and if you want to make more than that then be a flight attendant.

 

[Frac Daddy]

Flight Options was the only loser among the 4 major players as far as growth and profit. If anybody needed a union, they do. Management is responsible for unions on the property.

One scenario at NetJets is to leave the local 284 and the Airline Division and have our own local within the IBT.

The "only loser"? Are you sure? I, too, heard Flex was hurting. Please state your source.

 

[bluepost]

I think the most likely scenairo is that NJA pilots will get their own local and stay with IBT. The problems we have had is at our local level in my opinion. The national has stepped up in the last 6 months as negotiations have come closer to a close. As at any union, 90% of what you get is dependent on your MEC. If your pilot group doesn't put up good individuals for MEC, then you union will suck. If your MEC puts pressure on the local and national you are more likely to get the service you need.


I hope that one day there will be a fractional union for all fractional pilots. The fractional business is here to stay, and the earlier Options, Flex or CS gets onboard, the more power they will have to make it exactly what they want it to be.

The union is what the members make of it. If they want to protect the lazy and accept crap from the company, that is what they will get. If they want a cozy relationship with management, they can have that too. To blame all problems on the national is a cop out in many (not all) instances. It is unlikely that any national will come down and tell a local how to run itself. Locals have the power to create what they want.

I have visions of all fractional pilots being paid what they are worth, leveling the playing field and allowing all fractionals the opportunity to prosper with higher management fees. Soon we will have similar work rules and it would be nice to have similar protections to our way of life and to this industry.

All fractionals need:

*Captains board power to veto any new hire

*Scope protection (to prevent NJI and the X scenario at options)

*A unifed voice to the FAA and the future of 91k

*NBAA pay adjusted for our increased amount of work

*Senority based upgrades, overtime, vacation, instructor positions

*Merger language

*A fractional safety board for ALL fractionals to investigate and protect pilots involved in incidents/accidents

A fractional union can be anything we want it to be. It doesn't have to be contentious, or overly friendly. It could be what a union is supposed to be, quality of life, and pay protection for its members. It would give us a greater voice in the shaping of this developing industry.

 

[Hobbes]

nice post

That vision of a possible future with a fractional union is a masterpiece. I like to think that one day that could happen, but what a leap it will be. FO will likely soon be in a position to be voting for the same IBT at NJ as a lot of guys have been sending cards in.

 

[bluepost]

I just hope Options pilots realize some of the things I mentioned above. If they vote in the IBT, the biggest influence they will have will be their own MEC. Again..they can have whatever type of union they choose.


Also with a unifed local we could also have a larger pilot mutual aid for all pilots in the local. Lets say $10 a month times 3000 pilots, that would be $30k a month to help support our fellow pilots in need...whatever that may be...flooded house, death in the family, loss of medical etc.

How about another $10 a month for a strike fund or all pilots in the local.

A serious question here...what are the ways that Options pilots think things could get worse if they voted in a Union?

 

[Hobbes]

this is what we don't want....

From "News of the Weird.com"


An AFSCME union local filed a grievance against East Haven, Conn., mayor Joe Maturo recently for violating the city's labor contract by personally doing the civic task of reaching down into a storm drain and repositioning the drain cover, which Maturo noticed had become dislodged. According to the union, if a cover comes loose, the city is required to call out exactly four union employees, three of whom would get time and a half and be guaranteed four hours' work. Said union president John Longley, "It's not about the money; it's about our work." (Maturo, a licensed electrician, was a longtime union member himself.) [Newsday-New Haven Register, 8-2-04]

 

[PHX767]

Wait a minute....

Excuse me Bluepost, I have a difference of opinion.

Does any union need a board of anyone to veto new hires? YGBSM! Do other companies do that? And if so, why?

Seniority for overtime? How does that work when we at FO are on an 8/7 schedule? I can't work an extra day (not that I would, just hire more pilots is my answer) because somebody senior to me wants to? What are they going to do, airline that guy to my plane to work one day?

Scope protection? You mean no wet lease of C-X's I assume. That is a bunch of $hit. I agree with that. But scope - of course you wouldn't want a bunch of little jets flying your routes. Does that mean you are against expansion? More smaller airplanes flying our owners, even if they are our pilots?

I like the idea of a frax safety panel. Do we have to have a union to do that?

Any group of employees can form a fraternal organization to pool money to help others. Great idea. Kind of like the PMA at APA.

 

[bluepost]

I respect your opinion.....my post was just off the top of my head, not some big master plan...but I will try and address your questions anyhow.


*A union veto board is to ensure the company is hiring folks that a) you feel you can get along with, b) doesn't have battered self worth, c) is not a scab d) doesn't support Nader

* The overtime comes from the problem we have at NJA where some guys take all the OT, and are looked upon favorably because they may overlook some write ups, may waive some duty issues, etc. Not fair for someone to get 9 extended days and someone else not being able to get one. Our extended days are pre assigned days in advance most times. If one guy is always getting the pre assigned days, and someone else is not, ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL...there is a problem

*Scope is for the individual companies, not "routes" you have been in the airlines too long. Just to prevent the company from starting a shadow company like...hmmm....lets see.......OH, I know...NJI

Again my original post was off the top of my head, relating to issues we have at NJA, I don't know the day to day ops at other fracs, so some might not apply, and you may have other issues, so take my "issues" with a grain of salt. They are just some examples.

Here is a question for all of you...take a guess, because I sure don't know..but:

How much business do you think all the fractionals would loose if everyones management fees went up 15%? Out of the 5000-7000 customers we all have, how many would say....whow, that is too much money now? 50? 500? 1000?