Flight Options?

[B19 Flyer]

Out Of Context My A$$.

Fisch, any reasonable person who followed the thread where the out-of-context post was taken from knows that I was responding to an economics point made by Gunfyter

Out of context my A$$. You lie like a cheap rug.

You are a huge, massive problem to each and every fractional pilot and the industry.

You don't give a damn about anybody or anything unless they are a union pilot.

This post shows and proves you don't know anything about the industry or the workers in it.

Here are the exact, disgusting and disrespectful words once again with the entire post.

YOUR REALITY IS BASED ON BEING A PILOT'S WIFE.​

_________________

Quoted by NJW:

Another good analogy, GF. All those rank and filefrac workers...personally, I prefer CA1900's term-- support folks...were free to be pilots if they had chosen to make that investment. Maybe they prefer being home with their families every night? Sleeping in their own beds? Being home on holidays? Not working a 14/10 schedule? Not being responsible for the lives of pax? Not having their license at risk every flight? Oh wait, support folks don't have to have a license from the FAA do they? I bet they recognize that pilots have additional skills and experience that support folks don't have because they're dealing with reality--not flinging FUD.


PILOTS ARE PROFESSIONALS RESPONSIBLE FOR LIVES AND SHOULD BE COMPENSATED ACCORDINGLY

______________

OUT OF CONTEXT???​

I THINK NOT!!!​

 

[fischman]

You didn't answer my question.

Why is that offensive? It is the truth. Does the truth offend you?

 

[RNObased]

Wow, B19 the only argument you have is that NJW doesn't work in the industry. Kind of a lame stance.
Can't you come up with anything else???

Her reality is based on being a pilot's wife, so what. Your reality seems to be based on god knows a universe of your own making from what I can tell.

 

[netjetwife]

Exactly, RNO! Fudspinners don't like to discuss the truth. B19 wants to ignore the reality that the underpaid Options pilots have the legal right to negotiate a contract. Just like fighter pilots emit chaff to confuse a radar, Union haters throw out FUD/chaff to distract board members from the glaring discrepancy between industry standard pay and that offered by the FLOPS. Come to think of it, there might even be some FAs with a bigger paycheck than some FltOps pilots. (That used to be the case for NJA pilots.) If so, that's wrong and I bet most (if not all) FAs would agree that a pilot's license and experience should pay more than the services of an FA. The same can be said for many support workers in the fractional business. That's an economic reality and pointing it out when discussing pilot wages is factual--not disrespectful. Just as Gunfyter has noted that the many support workers in a hospital are paid less than doctors and don't expect it to be otherwise. People make their own choices when it comes to what job/career to pursue and suggesting reasons some didn't choose to become a fractional pilot is not disrespectful--it's speculation. Furthermore, highlighting the contributions made by pilots in no way detracts from those made by support workers. I respect other workers and I trust that pilots posting here do, too. It isn't necessary for us to tell each other that when we discuss pilot wages...

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Agghhh! Sorry NJW, grammar instructor hat on. I HATE "irregardless." It ISN'T a word! Regardless is.

Ok, I feel better now. Rant over. Please continue.

UGH. your repost of her post (I have her & B-19 on ignore) is a vile infraction that can only be overlooked this time due to your commendable and staunch adherence to the rules of educated speech.
For that, I applaud you for your public service toward those who are without hope and unarmed for such a battle.
Carry on.

 

[B19 Flyer]

I respect other workers and I trust that pilots posting here do, too. It isn't necessary for us to tell each other that when we discuss pilot wages...

You only talk about non-pilots when it suits you because the disrespect is pointed out to others, then you rant for pages trying to dig yourself out of the ignorant hole you put yourself into.

When pilot wages carry a disproportionate percentage of the company cost, non-pilot employees take a direct hit because it's the only place left to draw $$ from.

But you don't and have never understood that because you don't work in the industry, make any decisions in the industry, run a budget in the industry, or even support the industry.

You only selfishly support you own pocketbook, as your husband is a union leader. No union, no $$ for NJW. He would actually have to fly for a living.

 

[B19 Flyer]

You didn't answer my question.

Why is that offensive? It is the truth. Does the truth offend you?

Here is the truth, and you and other's seen to want to ignore it. You will let her speak for you, and act like she actually can help you in some way shape or form.

You asked for my reasons why I find her propaganda so disgusting. Here it is.

Let’s forget the fact that she is a pro-union propaganda expert. I can almost accept that, because she has a right to that. She calls me all kind of names, but isn’t qualified to be my secretary, much less a critic to industry professionals for which she has never participated. My opinion is echoed by others on this board, but perhaps not as strong.

What I can’t agree with most is that she posts as if she has actually participated in the industry.

She hasn’t.

She isn’t qualified to carry the lunch of any pilot or aviation profession to the airplane or the office. She isn’t legal to even be on the ramp at most airports, yet she posts like she actually has a say in something with active experience. And you guys eat it up and fall for it!

She doesn’t know the true challenges that pilots, mechanics, dispatchers, schedulers or any other industry professional has accomplished, because she has never personally acted in any capacity other than that of a pilot’s wife. She’s never held operational control or made a single decision, yet speaks as though she’s an expert at it.

Everything she knows about the industry has been gathered as second hand knowledge, through her husband’s eyes. Not hers from experience. Her posts are not second person, anybody reading her posts would think she is an active participant and it is false in her part.

She uses words like “I” and “we” like she is a decision maker at NJ, 1108 and NJASAP. She’s not. The only thing she can do is influence her husband, and if he can be influenced by her, should he even be involved in a leadership position?

She isn’t qualified to make comments about how anybody invests in their careers and is the reason I direct reader comments to that specific item. There are lots of women that have made qualified efforts in the industry and are wives of pilots. They are qualified to speak first person, and have earned the right. She hasn’t and when she does it’s false and a clear lies.

She is critical of all that aren’t pilots, she clearly doesn’t understand the “team” concept of aviation and the value every member of an organization brings. Her pro-union posts only mention other positions when I point out her failure to acknowledge them.

If you are not a union pilot, you are nothing in her eyes and she has clearly shown disrespect in this area. She fails to perceive that other work groups have a say in how organizations are run or have value.

I am anti-union from personal experience and see no value of unions in today’s aviation world from the damage I have witnessed from the inside. I have lived and breathed nothing but air carrier flight operations for my entire career from small commuters to regionals to legacy to fractionals and beyond.

My objections come from her ongoing rants like she has a clue.

She’s only a pilot’s wife.

Nothing more.

 

[fischman]

It appears to me that you have taken a simple accurate statement and twisted it to suit your needs.

Like I said earlier, we all make choices in life. At some point I chose to be a pilot, a dispatcher decided to be a dispatcher. It isn't offensive. It is the truth.

Time to throttle back. You are looking like a sexist, arrogant, jerk. Unless of course, you are a sexist arrogant jerk. Then continue to post your drivel.

 

[dime line]

Yea and my objection is your dumb az rants about BS, LIKE YOU HAVE A CLUE

Moron

 

[B19 Flyer]

It appears to me that you have taken a simple accurate statement and twisted it to suit your needs.

Like I said earlier, we all make choices in life. At some point I chose to be a pilot, a dispatcher decided to be a dispatcher. It isn't offensive. It is the truth.

Time to throttle back. You are looking like a sexist, arrogant, jerk. Unless of course, you are a sexist arrogant jerk. Then continue to post your drivel.

You are entitled to your opinion, and I've never cared what others thought.I completely disagree with your opinion. I agree that we all made our career decisions. However, her entire post implied that others made their decisions because it was easier than flying. I find that disrespectful, arrogant and misinformed as she rants on about how unions affect air carriers.

She has no background for which to speak. Let her EARN certificates and walk the walk. Then, and only then can she throw the size stone she does. Until then, I have a right to complain about the level of disrespect she shows to non-union pilots and non-pilot employees.

Her statement is not accurate.

Let's look at it.

NJW's quote:

Another good analogy, GF. All those rank and filefrac workers...personally, I prefer CA1900's term-- support folks...were free to be pilots if they had chosen to make that investment.

Her statement implies that all non-pilot workers, support folks as if they haven't invested in their careers. The majority of these "support" folks as she calls them are college educated and have certificates that they have earned. Many of them, like myself, hold multiple certificates and perform functions that required for the doors to even open everyday. She has no idea of the team concept by this statement.


Maybe they prefer being home with their families every night?

Last I checked, most carriers are 24 hour operations. With my situation, I'm often on the road and will go sometimes up to 10 days a month withough seeing my wife. Mechanics, dispatchers, crew schedulers all have shifts that work 24/7. Who does she think repairs airplanes that get broken in the middle of the night, the plane fairy?


Sleeping in their own beds?

Once again, there are many jobs from mechanics to flight attendants and beyond that find themselves on the road. Apparently, she doesn't know about those people. I'm a platinum club priority club member, and I don't fly for a living. But where she's not in the business, she wouldn't know that and would have never made the statement.


Being home on holidays?

Like I said, she apparently has never flown on a holiday to see that the average airplane has a dozen employees for every pilot on a holiday to make sure all goes well. They don't get compensated anywhere near what a pilot does, but they still show up. But then again, she's not in the business so she wouldn't understand that.


Not working a 14/10 schedule?

A 14/10 schedule? Biggest joke so far. The average office worker has a 8-5 schedule and works over 20 days a month. Most frac pilots work seven on and seven off. (I know, her husband works union stuff and is exempt of all that). In either case, it's hard to convince an non-pilot emplyee that only gets 8 days off a month that 14 off is not enough. Most non-pilot workers would work 14 hour days in a heartbeat to get that many days off a month.


Not being responsible for the lives of pax?

Legally, the Director of Operations and the PIC are responsible, not just the PIC. Each and every function on an airplane has to be perfect for all to go the way it supposed to. The pilots fly, everybody else makes sure it's OK. It's ignorant and disrespectful for her to say that only the pilot is responsible for the lives of the passengers.

Not having their license at risk every flight?

Frac world, it's only PIC, SIC and A&P. 121 world, it's all of the above, plus a dispatcher and flight attendants. Once again, she hasn't got a clue because she's not in the industry.


Oh wait, support folks don't have to have a license from the FAA do they?

Yeah, they do.. but she wouldn’t know it because she isn’t in the industry. Oh, and while I'm at it, it's not a license, it's a certificate. We are certificated airmen. No a single person in the industry holds a "license", but then again, she's not in the industry and wouldn't know that.


I bet they recognize that pilots have additional skills and experience that support folks don't have because they're dealing with reality--not flinging FUD.

She doesn’t understand the reality, thus I will remain critical of what NJW says.

Experienced pilots and aviation professionals (of which she is not) realize the efforts that go into making an airplane fly. Fischman, you an I disagree on many things, but I don't think that I would ever see you make the statements she made. As long as she wants to make her pro-union statements and remain out of the industry, than somebody needs to correct her. Lately, I'm not the only one.