Flight Options?

[B19 Flyer]

You're all very welcome... Support goes both ways; my thanks to you, DL, FC and Galaxy, as well as the others who have expressed (either publicly or thru PMs) support for my right to post here. Each post and PM is valued and appreciated, not just for their personal meaning to me, but for the underlying evidence that we are an online community here to share camaraderie and support one another. Sincerely, NJW

A card for my Options friends....
[URL]http://www.bluemountain.com/view.pd?i=190094689&m=1932&rr=y&source=bma999[/URL]

You have your union support.

The rest of us know where you really stand.

The REAL NJW made the following statement, and no matter how much she tries to deny it, it's an insult to the industry:

 

[B19 Flyer]

I love people that attack NJW, cause the attackers look stupid. Were FLOPS pilots and she has no problem advertising she is a WIFE of a NJ pilot. Yet she cares more about a lame company that she has no bone with, than a select hand full of weak, no backbone, followers here at FLOPS.

THANKS NJW, for helping

I don't attack NJW, I simply point out the truth that the rest of you are blind to. She doesn't have a split second of time working in the industry, but all of you union mongers think she is worth supporting.

Her husband doesn't fly a regular schedule and produce revenue for NJ because he's too busy getting paid for conducting union business on company time.

She has a confrontational attitude that pilots must win, not fairly negotiate a contract.

She continually makes statements using the words "I" or "WE" like she does something in the industry that is meaningful. The only thing she does in the industry is support the union and her husband, who is in the process of splintering the support of IBT which the FLOPS pilots need.

She's highly disrespectful of those that are non-pilots. I use her quote to illustrate how little she understands about the industry:

 

[netjetwife]

This message is hidden because B19 Flyer is on your ignore list.

That's what I see on my screen. I am comfortable leaving it to the frac community to decide what they think about my offer of support. They know that I have their best interests at heart. I celebrate every advancement made in the industry, regardless of who initiated it. I also give credit where it's due, be it union members, non-union pilots, or management.

Union-busters (or wanna be copy cats) work to destroy solidarity and camaraderie among workers and their supporters. As an outspoken advocate for fractional pilots, it isn't surprising that I'm frequently attacked for my supportive posts. These are trying times for the Options pilotgroup and I'll continue to support their justified struggle for a fair contract. The NJ pilots are at an important cross-road and I'm following their independence movement closely. Additionally, I'm interested in progress made at the other frax and enjoy discussing positive change with those pilots. I encourage those who don't like the FUD being flung around every time I post to use the ignore function selectively. Thanks to everyone helping to raise the bar in the fractional industry! NJW

PS Diesel, I dropped the usual "frac" twice and used the longer "fractional" just for you and your pet peeve....

 

[B19 Flyer]

They know that I have their best interests at heart.

Pure doublespeak.

NJW, you can't have it both ways.

You make the statement above, yet the exact quote from you regarding non-pilots is:

 

[fischman]

B19,

Why does NJW's quote in your signature offend you so much? It is not meant as an insult. It is the truth. We all make choices in life. I chose to be a pilot. You chose to be an arrogant a$$. Again, not meant to be an insult, just the truth.

 

[netjetwife]

Fisch, any reasonable person who followed the thread where the out-of-context post was taken from knows that I was responding to an economics point made by Gunfyter. GF has used the hospital analogy numerous times (nurses and other support workers are paid less than doctors) but notice that the fudspinner doesn't attack GF... He'd rather pick on a woman. :erm:

You, GF, and other posters have stated correctly that I commented on choices we are all free to make and the economic reality of different job categories. This forum is full of outspoken people but they aren't complaining about the tone of that post. Like you, they got it and understood the job choice/economic point Gunfyter and I were both making. It's a non-issue but B19 is desperately trying to warp reality.

The word-twister is just trying to make trouble between the Union and other workers at FltOps. Actually, no disrespect was ever intended, but in his propaganda war B19 is hoping to discredit a vocal advocate for professional pay for fractional pilots. As a union-buster (or wanna be) he will say anything--irregardless of the truth--to destroy the reputation of those who support the right to work under a contract. As others have pointed out, if we all put the fudspinner on our ignore list and shut him out completely we can stop his flow of FUD.

THOSE WHO WARP REALITY SHOULD BE GIVEN THE BOOT. WORD-TWISTERS AND FUD-SPINNERS TO THE FRONT OF THE LINE!

 

[Galaxy]

"union obsession.....don't even work for one....600 posts about a company that you don't even work at! Give me a break! Get a grip!"....NJW

Once again, I don't have a dog in this fight nor care about unions one way or another.......BUT, you NJW don't work at any company nor work in the industry and have over 1800+ posts that are pro-union....I think you need to a GRIP!

SCT

PS- I have no beef against any of my fellow pilots (91, 121, 125, 135).....I just like to point out NJW's idiot posts.

There is no beef about it.. NJW is very clear of where she came from and where she stands today with numbers to prove it. Look at her profile-a military wife turned fractional pilots wife. Does she have a right to post her opinions here? Sure she does. She even has facts of what a union has done for her family in the way of actual numbers on her family W2 statements year after year as well as protections for her husband in the way of working conditions.
We all rely on our family to help us through this journey called life. NJW is a part time single parent while her husband is out flying to provide for his family. She has spent likely countless kids birthdays, anniversarys, and holidays alone to support her husbands career.
Unions are only in this industry because of corporate greed and mismanagement.
As for B-19, he is very elusive about his past and his current position. What airline did he work for when he was laid off twice? What was his position at those airlines? Where and what is he doing now? I am a pilot at FLOPS. I speak only the truth that happens to me and my fellow partners while enduring life here. Listening to information from B-19 is like getting financial information from your bug man. If he has some credibility then he should just come out and say it. But he always loosly evades the topic and falls back to his usual line of Unions are bad. He tries to make a big deal out of the NJA pilots seperating from the IBT. It isn not hard just read on this board for the real reasons.

 

[netjetwife]

You nailed it, Galaxy! I post here not only to support the pilots trying to raise the bar, but also to share the family perspective and my insight (based on my husband's leadership role in the Union) regarding current events in the industry. The pilots who know my husband's role don't question my understanding of the NJ pilots' upcoming separation from the Teamsters. Or my family's dedication to the pilotgroup. BTW, to me "pilotgroup" includes the family members. Unfortunately, those with a sexist attitude don't think wives should be allowed to post here...

As I recall, during the NJ pilots' contract negotiations SCT had a negative opinion about 1108 and my right to post. (Ironic considering my family gave up our time together for my husband to work on the contract team in '05 and in '07) I see his anti-union tone has softened slightly with the NJ pilots' successes, but when support was needed he certainly wasn't posting here to raise their morale. And he's not exactly cheering on the Options pilotgroup either...

Galaxy, about those actual numbers on my family's W2 statements...here's just one example of the positive changes I've seen. Prior to 2005 NJA pay was so low (particularly for the FOs) most families couldn't put money aside for kids' to go to college. In 2006 all 3 of our kids' college accounts got a big boost and we made so much last year (including AF retirement and the IBB signing bonus) that we can't deduct the college money from our taxes. What a turn around! Yes, I'm proud of 1108 and what the Union has done for our fractional families. Yes, I want to see the Options pilots get an industry standard contract so that life will be easier for them and their families. So the Ops kids can have college funds like the NJ kids. Now is the time to pull together and support the pilots at the bargaining table and I post accordingly. If those who don't wish to read my posts would use the ignore function of the board they wouldn't have cause to complain. However, as SCT made clear, he's in that category of posters who enjoys complaining and running others down....

 

[gutshotdraw]

--irregardless of the truth--

Agghhh! Sorry NJW, grammar instructor hat on. I HATE "irregardless." It ISN'T a word! Regardless is.

Ok, I feel better now. Rant over. Please continue.

 

[netjetwife]

GSD, I'm not sure where I picked up that non-word, :blush: but you're absolutely right. Thanks for the grammar lesson/reminder. It won't appear in my posts again--regardless of my frustration with those who twist the truth to fit their hidden agenda.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Out Of Context My A$$.

Fisch, any reasonable person who followed the thread where the out-of-context post was taken from knows that I was responding to an economics point made by Gunfyter

Out of context my A$$. You lie like a cheap rug.

You are a huge, massive problem to each and every fractional pilot and the industry.

You don't give a damn about anybody or anything unless they are a union pilot.

This post shows and proves you don't know anything about the industry or the workers in it.

Here are the exact, disgusting and disrespectful words once again with the entire post.

YOUR REALITY IS BASED ON BEING A PILOT'S WIFE.​

_________________

Quoted by NJW:

Another good analogy, GF. All those rank and filefrac workers...personally, I prefer CA1900's term-- support folks...were free to be pilots if they had chosen to make that investment. Maybe they prefer being home with their families every night? Sleeping in their own beds? Being home on holidays? Not working a 14/10 schedule? Not being responsible for the lives of pax? Not having their license at risk every flight? Oh wait, support folks don't have to have a license from the FAA do they? I bet they recognize that pilots have additional skills and experience that support folks don't have because they're dealing with reality--not flinging FUD.


PILOTS ARE PROFESSIONALS RESPONSIBLE FOR LIVES AND SHOULD BE COMPENSATED ACCORDINGLY

______________

OUT OF CONTEXT???​

I THINK NOT!!!​

 

[fischman]

You didn't answer my question.

Why is that offensive? It is the truth. Does the truth offend you?

 

[RNObased]

Wow, B19 the only argument you have is that NJW doesn't work in the industry. Kind of a lame stance.
Can't you come up with anything else???

Her reality is based on being a pilot's wife, so what. Your reality seems to be based on god knows a universe of your own making from what I can tell.

 

[netjetwife]

Exactly, RNO! Fudspinners don't like to discuss the truth. B19 wants to ignore the reality that the underpaid Options pilots have the legal right to negotiate a contract. Just like fighter pilots emit chaff to confuse a radar, Union haters throw out FUD/chaff to distract board members from the glaring discrepancy between industry standard pay and that offered by the FLOPS. Come to think of it, there might even be some FAs with a bigger paycheck than some FltOps pilots. (That used to be the case for NJA pilots.) If so, that's wrong and I bet most (if not all) FAs would agree that a pilot's license and experience should pay more than the services of an FA. The same can be said for many support workers in the fractional business. That's an economic reality and pointing it out when discussing pilot wages is factual--not disrespectful. Just as Gunfyter has noted that the many support workers in a hospital are paid less than doctors and don't expect it to be otherwise. People make their own choices when it comes to what job/career to pursue and suggesting reasons some didn't choose to become a fractional pilot is not disrespectful--it's speculation. Furthermore, highlighting the contributions made by pilots in no way detracts from those made by support workers. I respect other workers and I trust that pilots posting here do, too. It isn't necessary for us to tell each other that when we discuss pilot wages...

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Agghhh! Sorry NJW, grammar instructor hat on. I HATE "irregardless." It ISN'T a word! Regardless is.

Ok, I feel better now. Rant over. Please continue.

UGH. your repost of her post (I have her & B-19 on ignore) is a vile infraction that can only be overlooked this time due to your commendable and staunch adherence to the rules of educated speech.
For that, I applaud you for your public service toward those who are without hope and unarmed for such a battle.
Carry on.

 

[B19 Flyer]

I respect other workers and I trust that pilots posting here do, too. It isn't necessary for us to tell each other that when we discuss pilot wages...

You only talk about non-pilots when it suits you because the disrespect is pointed out to others, then you rant for pages trying to dig yourself out of the ignorant hole you put yourself into.

When pilot wages carry a disproportionate percentage of the company cost, non-pilot employees take a direct hit because it's the only place left to draw $$ from.

But you don't and have never understood that because you don't work in the industry, make any decisions in the industry, run a budget in the industry, or even support the industry.

You only selfishly support you own pocketbook, as your husband is a union leader. No union, no $$ for NJW. He would actually have to fly for a living.

 

[B19 Flyer]

You didn't answer my question.

Why is that offensive? It is the truth. Does the truth offend you?

Here is the truth, and you and other's seen to want to ignore it. You will let her speak for you, and act like she actually can help you in some way shape or form.

You asked for my reasons why I find her propaganda so disgusting. Here it is.

Let’s forget the fact that she is a pro-union propaganda expert. I can almost accept that, because she has a right to that. She calls me all kind of names, but isn’t qualified to be my secretary, much less a critic to industry professionals for which she has never participated. My opinion is echoed by others on this board, but perhaps not as strong.

What I can’t agree with most is that she posts as if she has actually participated in the industry.

She hasn’t.

She isn’t qualified to carry the lunch of any pilot or aviation profession to the airplane or the office. She isn’t legal to even be on the ramp at most airports, yet she posts like she actually has a say in something with active experience. And you guys eat it up and fall for it!

She doesn’t know the true challenges that pilots, mechanics, dispatchers, schedulers or any other industry professional has accomplished, because she has never personally acted in any capacity other than that of a pilot’s wife. She’s never held operational control or made a single decision, yet speaks as though she’s an expert at it.

Everything she knows about the industry has been gathered as second hand knowledge, through her husband’s eyes. Not hers from experience. Her posts are not second person, anybody reading her posts would think she is an active participant and it is false in her part.

She uses words like “I” and “we” like she is a decision maker at NJ, 1108 and NJASAP. She’s not. The only thing she can do is influence her husband, and if he can be influenced by her, should he even be involved in a leadership position?

She isn’t qualified to make comments about how anybody invests in their careers and is the reason I direct reader comments to that specific item. There are lots of women that have made qualified efforts in the industry and are wives of pilots. They are qualified to speak first person, and have earned the right. She hasn’t and when she does it’s false and a clear lies.

She is critical of all that aren’t pilots, she clearly doesn’t understand the “team” concept of aviation and the value every member of an organization brings. Her pro-union posts only mention other positions when I point out her failure to acknowledge them.

If you are not a union pilot, you are nothing in her eyes and she has clearly shown disrespect in this area. She fails to perceive that other work groups have a say in how organizations are run or have value.

I am anti-union from personal experience and see no value of unions in today’s aviation world from the damage I have witnessed from the inside. I have lived and breathed nothing but air carrier flight operations for my entire career from small commuters to regionals to legacy to fractionals and beyond.

My objections come from her ongoing rants like she has a clue.

She’s only a pilot’s wife.

Nothing more.

 

[fischman]

It appears to me that you have taken a simple accurate statement and twisted it to suit your needs.

Like I said earlier, we all make choices in life. At some point I chose to be a pilot, a dispatcher decided to be a dispatcher. It isn't offensive. It is the truth.

Time to throttle back. You are looking like a sexist, arrogant, jerk. Unless of course, you are a sexist arrogant jerk. Then continue to post your drivel.

 

[dime line]

Yea and my objection is your dumb az rants about BS, LIKE YOU HAVE A CLUE

Moron

 

[B19 Flyer]

It appears to me that you have taken a simple accurate statement and twisted it to suit your needs.

Like I said earlier, we all make choices in life. At some point I chose to be a pilot, a dispatcher decided to be a dispatcher. It isn't offensive. It is the truth.

Time to throttle back. You are looking like a sexist, arrogant, jerk. Unless of course, you are a sexist arrogant jerk. Then continue to post your drivel.

You are entitled to your opinion, and I've never cared what others thought.I completely disagree with your opinion. I agree that we all made our career decisions. However, her entire post implied that others made their decisions because it was easier than flying. I find that disrespectful, arrogant and misinformed as she rants on about how unions affect air carriers.

She has no background for which to speak. Let her EARN certificates and walk the walk. Then, and only then can she throw the size stone she does. Until then, I have a right to complain about the level of disrespect she shows to non-union pilots and non-pilot employees.

Her statement is not accurate.

Let's look at it.

NJW's quote:

Another good analogy, GF. All those rank and filefrac workers...personally, I prefer CA1900's term-- support folks...were free to be pilots if they had chosen to make that investment.

Her statement implies that all non-pilot workers, support folks as if they haven't invested in their careers. The majority of these "support" folks as she calls them are college educated and have certificates that they have earned. Many of them, like myself, hold multiple certificates and perform functions that required for the doors to even open everyday. She has no idea of the team concept by this statement.


Maybe they prefer being home with their families every night?

Last I checked, most carriers are 24 hour operations. With my situation, I'm often on the road and will go sometimes up to 10 days a month withough seeing my wife. Mechanics, dispatchers, crew schedulers all have shifts that work 24/7. Who does she think repairs airplanes that get broken in the middle of the night, the plane fairy?


Sleeping in their own beds?

Once again, there are many jobs from mechanics to flight attendants and beyond that find themselves on the road. Apparently, she doesn't know about those people. I'm a platinum club priority club member, and I don't fly for a living. But where she's not in the business, she wouldn't know that and would have never made the statement.


Being home on holidays?

Like I said, she apparently has never flown on a holiday to see that the average airplane has a dozen employees for every pilot on a holiday to make sure all goes well. They don't get compensated anywhere near what a pilot does, but they still show up. But then again, she's not in the business so she wouldn't understand that.


Not working a 14/10 schedule?

A 14/10 schedule? Biggest joke so far. The average office worker has a 8-5 schedule and works over 20 days a month. Most frac pilots work seven on and seven off. (I know, her husband works union stuff and is exempt of all that). In either case, it's hard to convince an non-pilot emplyee that only gets 8 days off a month that 14 off is not enough. Most non-pilot workers would work 14 hour days in a heartbeat to get that many days off a month.


Not being responsible for the lives of pax?

Legally, the Director of Operations and the PIC are responsible, not just the PIC. Each and every function on an airplane has to be perfect for all to go the way it supposed to. The pilots fly, everybody else makes sure it's OK. It's ignorant and disrespectful for her to say that only the pilot is responsible for the lives of the passengers.

Not having their license at risk every flight?

Frac world, it's only PIC, SIC and A&P. 121 world, it's all of the above, plus a dispatcher and flight attendants. Once again, she hasn't got a clue because she's not in the industry.


Oh wait, support folks don't have to have a license from the FAA do they?

Yeah, they do.. but she wouldn’t know it because she isn’t in the industry. Oh, and while I'm at it, it's not a license, it's a certificate. We are certificated airmen. No a single person in the industry holds a "license", but then again, she's not in the industry and wouldn't know that.


I bet they recognize that pilots have additional skills and experience that support folks don't have because they're dealing with reality--not flinging FUD.

She doesn’t understand the reality, thus I will remain critical of what NJW says.

Experienced pilots and aviation professionals (of which she is not) realize the efforts that go into making an airplane fly. Fischman, you an I disagree on many things, but I don't think that I would ever see you make the statements she made. As long as she wants to make her pro-union statements and remain out of the industry, than somebody needs to correct her. Lately, I'm not the only one.