Flight Options?

[B19 Flyer]

I respect other workers and I trust that pilots posting here do, too. It isn't necessary for us to tell each other that when we discuss pilot wages...

You only talk about non-pilots when it suits you because the disrespect is pointed out to others, then you rant for pages trying to dig yourself out of the ignorant hole you put yourself into.

When pilot wages carry a disproportionate percentage of the company cost, non-pilot employees take a direct hit because it's the only place left to draw $$ from.

But you don't and have never understood that because you don't work in the industry, make any decisions in the industry, run a budget in the industry, or even support the industry.

You only selfishly support you own pocketbook, as your husband is a union leader. No union, no $$ for NJW. He would actually have to fly for a living.

 

[B19 Flyer]

You didn't answer my question.

Why is that offensive? It is the truth. Does the truth offend you?

Here is the truth, and you and other's seen to want to ignore it. You will let her speak for you, and act like she actually can help you in some way shape or form.

You asked for my reasons why I find her propaganda so disgusting. Here it is.

Let’s forget the fact that she is a pro-union propaganda expert. I can almost accept that, because she has a right to that. She calls me all kind of names, but isn’t qualified to be my secretary, much less a critic to industry professionals for which she has never participated. My opinion is echoed by others on this board, but perhaps not as strong.

What I can’t agree with most is that she posts as if she has actually participated in the industry.

She hasn’t.

She isn’t qualified to carry the lunch of any pilot or aviation profession to the airplane or the office. She isn’t legal to even be on the ramp at most airports, yet she posts like she actually has a say in something with active experience. And you guys eat it up and fall for it!

She doesn’t know the true challenges that pilots, mechanics, dispatchers, schedulers or any other industry professional has accomplished, because she has never personally acted in any capacity other than that of a pilot’s wife. She’s never held operational control or made a single decision, yet speaks as though she’s an expert at it.

Everything she knows about the industry has been gathered as second hand knowledge, through her husband’s eyes. Not hers from experience. Her posts are not second person, anybody reading her posts would think she is an active participant and it is false in her part.

She uses words like “I” and “we” like she is a decision maker at NJ, 1108 and NJASAP. She’s not. The only thing she can do is influence her husband, and if he can be influenced by her, should he even be involved in a leadership position?

She isn’t qualified to make comments about how anybody invests in their careers and is the reason I direct reader comments to that specific item. There are lots of women that have made qualified efforts in the industry and are wives of pilots. They are qualified to speak first person, and have earned the right. She hasn’t and when she does it’s false and a clear lies.

She is critical of all that aren’t pilots, she clearly doesn’t understand the “team” concept of aviation and the value every member of an organization brings. Her pro-union posts only mention other positions when I point out her failure to acknowledge them.

If you are not a union pilot, you are nothing in her eyes and she has clearly shown disrespect in this area. She fails to perceive that other work groups have a say in how organizations are run or have value.

I am anti-union from personal experience and see no value of unions in today’s aviation world from the damage I have witnessed from the inside. I have lived and breathed nothing but air carrier flight operations for my entire career from small commuters to regionals to legacy to fractionals and beyond.

My objections come from her ongoing rants like she has a clue.

She’s only a pilot’s wife.

Nothing more.

 

[fischman]

It appears to me that you have taken a simple accurate statement and twisted it to suit your needs.

Like I said earlier, we all make choices in life. At some point I chose to be a pilot, a dispatcher decided to be a dispatcher. It isn't offensive. It is the truth.

Time to throttle back. You are looking like a sexist, arrogant, jerk. Unless of course, you are a sexist arrogant jerk. Then continue to post your drivel.

 

[dime line]

Yea and my objection is your dumb az rants about BS, LIKE YOU HAVE A CLUE

Moron

 

[B19 Flyer]

It appears to me that you have taken a simple accurate statement and twisted it to suit your needs.

Like I said earlier, we all make choices in life. At some point I chose to be a pilot, a dispatcher decided to be a dispatcher. It isn't offensive. It is the truth.

Time to throttle back. You are looking like a sexist, arrogant, jerk. Unless of course, you are a sexist arrogant jerk. Then continue to post your drivel.

You are entitled to your opinion, and I've never cared what others thought.I completely disagree with your opinion. I agree that we all made our career decisions. However, her entire post implied that others made their decisions because it was easier than flying. I find that disrespectful, arrogant and misinformed as she rants on about how unions affect air carriers.

She has no background for which to speak. Let her EARN certificates and walk the walk. Then, and only then can she throw the size stone she does. Until then, I have a right to complain about the level of disrespect she shows to non-union pilots and non-pilot employees.

Her statement is not accurate.

Let's look at it.

NJW's quote:

Another good analogy, GF. All those rank and filefrac workers...personally, I prefer CA1900's term-- support folks...were free to be pilots if they had chosen to make that investment.

Her statement implies that all non-pilot workers, support folks as if they haven't invested in their careers. The majority of these "support" folks as she calls them are college educated and have certificates that they have earned. Many of them, like myself, hold multiple certificates and perform functions that required for the doors to even open everyday. She has no idea of the team concept by this statement.


Maybe they prefer being home with their families every night?

Last I checked, most carriers are 24 hour operations. With my situation, I'm often on the road and will go sometimes up to 10 days a month withough seeing my wife. Mechanics, dispatchers, crew schedulers all have shifts that work 24/7. Who does she think repairs airplanes that get broken in the middle of the night, the plane fairy?


Sleeping in their own beds?

Once again, there are many jobs from mechanics to flight attendants and beyond that find themselves on the road. Apparently, she doesn't know about those people. I'm a platinum club priority club member, and I don't fly for a living. But where she's not in the business, she wouldn't know that and would have never made the statement.


Being home on holidays?

Like I said, she apparently has never flown on a holiday to see that the average airplane has a dozen employees for every pilot on a holiday to make sure all goes well. They don't get compensated anywhere near what a pilot does, but they still show up. But then again, she's not in the business so she wouldn't understand that.


Not working a 14/10 schedule?

A 14/10 schedule? Biggest joke so far. The average office worker has a 8-5 schedule and works over 20 days a month. Most frac pilots work seven on and seven off. (I know, her husband works union stuff and is exempt of all that). In either case, it's hard to convince an non-pilot emplyee that only gets 8 days off a month that 14 off is not enough. Most non-pilot workers would work 14 hour days in a heartbeat to get that many days off a month.


Not being responsible for the lives of pax?

Legally, the Director of Operations and the PIC are responsible, not just the PIC. Each and every function on an airplane has to be perfect for all to go the way it supposed to. The pilots fly, everybody else makes sure it's OK. It's ignorant and disrespectful for her to say that only the pilot is responsible for the lives of the passengers.

Not having their license at risk every flight?

Frac world, it's only PIC, SIC and A&P. 121 world, it's all of the above, plus a dispatcher and flight attendants. Once again, she hasn't got a clue because she's not in the industry.


Oh wait, support folks don't have to have a license from the FAA do they?

Yeah, they do.. but she wouldn’t know it because she isn’t in the industry. Oh, and while I'm at it, it's not a license, it's a certificate. We are certificated airmen. No a single person in the industry holds a "license", but then again, she's not in the industry and wouldn't know that.


I bet they recognize that pilots have additional skills and experience that support folks don't have because they're dealing with reality--not flinging FUD.

She doesn’t understand the reality, thus I will remain critical of what NJW says.

Experienced pilots and aviation professionals (of which she is not) realize the efforts that go into making an airplane fly. Fischman, you an I disagree on many things, but I don't think that I would ever see you make the statements she made. As long as she wants to make her pro-union statements and remain out of the industry, than somebody needs to correct her. Lately, I'm not the only one.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Yea and my objection is your dumb az rants about BS, LIKE YOU HAVE A CLUE

Moron

That's Beavis, your hero right? :laugh:

 

[fischman]

In your arguement, remember that you used the term "rank and file" before any of us.

You are still coming across as a sexist pig. If you spoke to a lady like that in front of me, you would only do it once. I recommend a throttle back and an apology for the sexist remarks.

 

[J3guy]

B19 you've got to be the biggest moron this board has seen. Give it a rest.

 

[dime line]

I love it, B19 is in a battle with a WIFE, He cant battle pilots, and will not answer pilot questions, but dmm he will tear apart a WIFE.

 

[SilverSurfer]

Who's the bigger mooron

Who's the bigger MOORON?:erm:

B19 or the pilots that continue to play his game?

 

[netjetwife]

In your arguement, remember that you used the term "rank and file" before any of us.

You are still coming across as a sexist pig. If you spoke to a lady like that in front of me, you would only do it once. I recommend a throttle back and an apology for the sexist remarks.

Thanks, Fisch! I'm representative of many other pilots' wives who sacrifice a lot for their husband's career and respect has certainly been earned, aside from basic manners and fairness, as you noted. You are also correct that the term "rank and file" was first used by B19. I joined the conversation because I agreed with Gunfyter and we both used the term according to the proper meaning--workers akin to enlisted troops, (as opposed to officers) whose jobs command less money. The US pays their pilots/rated officers considerably more than the enlisted/support workers, but all service members are respected and their contribution valued. When the USAF starts to lose too many pilots to civilian aviation they raise the pay --and the support folks understand that it's an economic necessity, not a respect issue. Workers hold the positions they do because of choices they freely made. The average worker views pilots as professionals and fully expects them to be compensated accordingly.

Common sense tells us that the support workers at FltOps would much rather have the company growing and attracting pilots rather than the status quo of watching those critical professionals leave in disgust one after another. All employees want to work for a company they can be proud of instead of one that is avoided by qualified applicants because the pay is too low and management has a bad reputation.

J3 and DL, you're absolutely right that B19's tirades are excessive and ridiculous. It's a sign that the Options pilots are a strong presence at the bargaining table. (The NJ pilots went thru the same thing in their negotiations). Union haters can't deny that the underpaid Options pilots are justified in expecting the going rate for their professional skills and experience so all you hear from them is FUD...FUD....FUD...and more FUD....

 

[Galaxy]

I too agree that an apology is in order from B19. He seems to cross more lines every day. First comparing her to Hitler and now his sexist remarks.
I too would give him the beating of his life if it was my wife in person with these remarks he says.
I know where many of the FLOPS dispatchers, schedulers and support personnel have come from. It is not that impressive. Most are fresh out of college. The others come from ordinary jobs in resturaunts and retail. They were hired not for their skill but because they showed up for the interview. If you worked at FLOPS you would understand the reality and desperation here. FLOPS has proven that they can replace the non essential personnel pretty easily and train them within a few days to a week. Pilots and mechanics are not so easy to replace. Hence the current situation we are in. So please compare apples to apples in this discussion.
As far as fractionals go.. NJW is closer to the fractional world than B19 will ever be. So yes her opinion counts for something. She has also been honest about her position and past-something B19 has yet to divulge to anyone. That is why you are viewed as a FUD slinger. Until you prove otherwise-you are nothing more than some F & H lawyer making a bunch of money spreading FUD here. As a FLOPS pilot I can tell you that no matter what B19 says over and over and over there are two solutions to FLOPS labor issues. a CONTRACT with Industry Wages and Work Conditions. Or Shut it Down and Close the Doors!

 

[Fozzy]

*yawn*
Is that jacka$s still being a sexist prick? You think he would have been taught manners when he was a child. I hope I don't fail my children like his parents did. :0
I can hear his garbage now. Like a vague old memory. Bla bla bla, NJW was never a pilot.
Well he is not one either. Just some desk jockey banging away at a desk.
Behind the desk because he doesn't have the nuts or skill to do the job any more.
Guys put him on ignore and free yourself from his FUD. Then maybe just maybe FUD and Harassment may reassign him.

 

[gunfyter]

Do not allow 19 to provoke you.

His job is to drive a wedge between the pilot group and everyone else that works at FLOPS.

Your IGNORE list is where he belongs.

 

[brokeflyer]

b19 must hate working at FLOPS