Flight Options pins its fortunes on new jets, competitive pricing

brokeflyer

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i guess paying their pilots isnt an important subject....

sad that management can destroy a company like that and it not be illegal.....
 

SF Flyer

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Interesting that you'd even think of it being illegal. "Free" markets should dictate that stupid decisions and bad management should have bad results. Making it illegal to poorly manage a company would be problematic to say the least. Every stake holder (employee, owner, bond holder, etc.) should carefully consider their relationships in this life.

Responsibility is the name of the game.
 

CALRepublic

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I noticed the article.... I think it's a positive thing, sort of good news in my opinion.... but my buddy (on furlough from FLOPS) didn't think so, he doesn't seem to trust Ricci.... I forwarded him the link, he said "whatever"...oh well
 

pilot error

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Interesting that you'd even think of it being illegal. "Free" markets should dictate that stupid decisions and bad management should have bad results. Making it illegal to poorly manage a company would be problematic to say the least.
agreed.

Every stake holder (employee, owner, bond holder, etc.) should carefully consider their relationships in this life.

Responsibility is the name of the game.

are you inferring that it is the employees fault? that's what it sounds like.
 

Fedmagnet

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Flight Options keeps pushing pilots. Ricci is still wheeling and dealing. What do the pilots have? No future, no stability, no money and NO CONTRACT.

Stand by for a Ricci/Dubinsky watered down contract that the beat down Flight Options pilot will accept after years of beatings and reprogramming.
 

jetwash

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Fedmagnet,

I have waited 3 years and if the contract does not meet my minimum requirements I will vote NO !!!!

I waited this long for a contract and I am prepared to send them back for another year to get what I feel is a fair contract. I will take everything into consideration when I do vote and make my decision.

Only those of us who are allowed to vote will make that decision, most of the weaker pilots have who have not paid up and would be willing to take anything will not be able to vote.

I just hope the company and union both understand that.
 

QOL_is_great:)

What the?
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pilot groups shouldn't suffer

Interesting that you'd even think of it being illegal. "Free" markets should dictate that stupid decisions and bad management should have bad results. Making it illegal to poorly manage a company would be problematic to say the least. Every stake holder (employee, owner, bond holder, etc.) should carefully consider their relationships in this life.

Responsibility is the name of the game.
SF Flyer, not sure what your background is other then what your profile states, but spend some time outside the military playground. It's a different playground in the fractional side. Try the airline or corporate playgrounds and there is another set of ROE to deal with. There are bullies in every playground. You have them within the OSACOM playground too. (read dickheads = bullies)
Every opinion here has some value and will cause fine debate which I enjoy reading. All I am saying is ya can not supply negative comment from side of the industry unless you've worked within it. It's no different then someone talking sh*t about the military and they never served.
That's another topic unto its self.
I read the post as saying if other industry's can fire or have the CEOs held responsible then why not in aviation.
 

Fedmagnet

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Maintenance Competition in Vegas

From AIN-
Mechanics Are Winners at Mx Skills Contest[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]At the Aviation Industry Expo held from March 10 to 12 in Las Vegas, 15 teams of maintenance technicians vied for top honors in the second annual maintenance skills competition hosted by the AMTSociety. Last year, nine teams competed, according to Ken MacTiernan, an American Airlines mechanic and a director of the AMTSociety. The 15 teams were split into four categories: commercial aviation, general aviation, schools and military. Air Force and Navy mechanics competed in the military category, but next year MacTiernan expects members of all five military branches to compete. There were 12 events, and each five-member team had 20 minutes to complete each event. Scores are based on the time taken, and penalties are added, so the team with the lowest combined score wins. Category winners this year were Continental Airlines, commercial; Aviation Institute of Maintenance Atlanta, school; Air Force (McGuire AFB), military; and Team Colorado from the Colorado Aeronautics Division, general aviation. “The goal is to promote today’s technicians,” said MacTiernan. “Our responsibilities are all the same: providing safe, airworthy aircraft.”[/FONT]

The Flight Options team had held first place by finishing each event in less than 1 minute until the other teams protested that "OPS CHECKED OK PER MM600-800-01" was not an acceptable repair. Maintenance mangers at Flight Options in KCGF were not available for comment. :laugh:

You get what you pay for!
 

SF Flyer

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pilot error:

I am not inferring anything. Without perfect information, I would be in a poor position to judge fault.

To answer your question, my opinion is that it is not the fault of the employees. It seems very likely that the blame falls on the management hired by the board and therefore the stockholders. I believe that management should be controlled by business forces, not the President of the United States or his minions. Short of violating current regulation (accounting, monopoly, etc.), I just don't believe that the government legal structures can effectively run business. If board members, stockholders, employee groups allow managers to run the company into the ground, then they hold some responsibility. Employees may only hold certain levers of power(strikes, negotiations, etc.), but they also have the freedom to walk and find something better for themselves.

Government simply can't make it illegal to run a business poorly!

John
 

SF Flyer

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QOL_is_great:):

Thanks for the directives:

1. spend some time outside the military playground...

2. ya can not supply negative comment from side of the industry unless you've worked within it.

3. I read the post as saying if other industry's can fire or have the CEOs held responsible then why not in aviation.
1. I have spent time in business and in life outside my "playground". You shouldn't have assumed otherwise, you know how that makes you look...;)
2. Re-read my post, I didn't "supply negative comment".

3. Any industry can fire their CEO. If the CEO acts outside of the law or the governing regulations, they can be held responsible. The real meat of my comment was a simple commentary on any desire by brokeflyer to make bad management "illegal".

I've re-read some of your other posts, and I don't percieve you to be a particularly snide or snarky individual on these boards. I think you might have read more into my post than was there.

From what I can tell, we work for the same company. I look forward to meeting you somewhere else as I can tell we'll be able to actually talk about more than the three Fs.:D

John
 

sflax

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JetPASS in 20% cheaper b/c of no middleman. I thought CS and FLEX use their own sales force, maybe Marquis is the only middleman in the group? I might be wrong.
 

NETFLIER

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You cannot be "competitve"(aka cheap). Flops has already proved that. You must charge the proper amount, and the smaller they get by downsizing, they get more and more INefficient because you have to move the planes further between REVENUE flights.

THIS PLAN is DOA..........

It will pull in revenue for awhile, it will plug some holes a ship with many. But in the longrun the "competitive" plan is DOA.

ABONDON SHIP IF YOU CAN AS I HAVE SAID NOW FOR 24 MONTHS!!!!!!!!!!
 

GooseHZ

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Yaaawwwnnn.....

Yep Net your right we should all just give up and do what you say.....hey being wrong for 2 years is ok....we have been dead before and made it....so get off your box and go do your job and STFU. I will do the same....peace.
 

NETFLIER

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Yep Net your right we should all just give up and do what you say.....hey being wrong for 2 years is ok....we have been dead before and made it....so get off your box and go do your job and STFU. I will do the same....peace.

this here is why you dont have a contract. This is a guy who will still take off with max tailwind out of ksun, just to "get the job done."

If those on furlough left 24 months ago like i preached they would be here at Netjets with a job fool.

stupid is, as a stupid does Mr. Goose
 

GooseHZ

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....

WOW…..Doing my job means flying like a professional pilot. I do my job safely, professionally and economically. You start jumping up and down on your box telling the world I fly Illegal. Well sir, you can kiss my white ass….you don’t know me or anything about FLOPS..other than what you hear. We don’t have a contract yet, but we are working on it everyday. So keep on telling us how we are going to fail, NJ is doing good and im happy none of your pilots are out on the street. I pray for all the families near the bottom that they never have to suffer like my brothers and sisters are now. But you seem to love their misery just because they didn’t listen to the all mighty NETFLIER!!! You reap what you sow buddy…..you should change your name to 5%er….your giving the rest of the outstanding NJ pilots a black eye…..when you’re the one who needs to get one….

Fly safe
 

OHGOON

No KoolAid please...
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Agreed! Netflier is an embarrassment.

Being the largest with the best contract is no guarantee. Look at TWA & PAN AM, the largest and best paying airlines in the 60s & 70s, where are they now?

What is the point of rubbing it in anyway. 2 yrs seniority is still junior by a long shot, so I would tread lightly if I were you! Feel lucky that whatever decision you made for yourself is still working out for you and hope that it will continue to do so in the future. Stop acting like an idiot, people have enough stress in their lives without your kind of insensitive gloating.
 

clickclickboom

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Guys dont settle for anything less than 100% of what you feel you earned, deserve, etc.. I personally didnt have the stomache to wait out flops when another offer came along nearly 4 years ago. I respect you guys for sticking it out.

I have reservations regarding the long term viability of flops ( especially so many of my fliends are on the street) BUT DO NOT FINANCE the weight of this company on your backs do not accept less than 100%

Hang in there guys !!! fly safe...
 

Frac Cap

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You are right, we are done financing this company and subsidizing our owners on our backs. For the past 6 months the company in my opinion has been dragging out negotiations. Our owners were leaving in record numbers and the new management knew that they had to make a change. Change happened with regards to crew meals, domiciles and the elimination of training contracts. They even got 8 TA's done in one week after our crews showed them we were still ticked off with the slow pace of negotiations. Well, since then our owners are happy and the mass exoduss of owners has subsided. As a result, the company feels that they can drag the negotiations out a lot further for more subsidised labor. They haven't even gotten a single TA in over 6 months. How can we go from 8 in one week to none in 6 months. This contract could be done tomorrow if the company really wanted it to be.

A loyal dog can only be kicked so many times until it will finaly turn around and bite the master. A lot of people in my circle are not going to singn off on a crappy contract with minimal pay increases. Now that this thing appears to be dragging on till this summer and beyond, retro pay is now a must for my group.
 

shanes123

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You are right, we are done financing this company and subsidizing our owners on our backs. For the past 6 months the company in my opinion has been dragging out negotiations. Our owners were leaving in record numbers and the new management knew that they had to make a change. Change happened with regards to crew meals, domiciles and the elimination of training contracts. They even got 8 TA's done in one week after our crews showed them we were still ticked off with the slow pace of negotiations. Well, since then our owners are happy and the mass exoduss of owners has subsided. As a result, the company feels that they can drag the negotiations out a lot further for more subsidised labor. They haven't even gotten a single TA in over 6 months. How can we go from 8 in one week to none in 6 months. This contract could be done tomorrow if the company really wanted it to be.

A loyal dog can only be kicked so many times until it will finaly turn around and bite the master. A lot of people in my circle are not going to singn off on a crappy contract with minimal pay increases. Now that this thing appears to be dragging on till this summer and beyond, retro pay is now a must for my group.
Hope I am wrong but I cant see FLOPS giving retro pay to you guys..Good luck with that one
 
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