Flight Options Or Asa????

[msr]

If you had to pick one to work for which one and why???? Pro's and cons from the experts much appreciated!! Thanks!!!!

 

[rajflyboy]

Wow Thats a Tuffy

If Delta Survives ASA will be the place to go.

If Delta runs into trouble I would say Flight Options is the way to go.

 

[beechjetpilot1]

being at FLOPs for over 5 years, I would suggest ASA. There probably just as much job security at ASA as there is at FLOPs (which is never that much in aviation!). FLOPs is not a carreer job and not a place you would want to stay at long. The upgrades are running 4 or more years now and you will be worked like a dog. Many of the perks we used to enjoy here have been slowly erroding away. Those are my 2 cents.

 

[banned username 2]

Remember This: Your Best Corporate Job is still worse than your worst Airline Job. Flying 121 Rocks! Only thing that really stinks is FO pay at a regional. Other than FO Pay ASA is a 10 times better than any corporate aviation job.

LOL... Your ignorance is showing...

 

[rajflyboy]

Falcon Captain??

I see you have no type ratings in 121 aircraft????? No 121 experience I assume.

So how can you sit here and say I'm ignorant. I have experience in both 121,135 and part 91. You Don't! Get a clue!

 

[ukipilot]

Remember This: Your Best Corporate Job is still worse than your worst Airline Job. Flying 121 Rocks! Only thing that really stinks is FO pay at a regional. Other than FO Pay ASA is a 10 times better than any corporate aviation job.[/

QUOTE]

Dude, you must be an Idiot, you must have never had a corporate pilot job, I will agree corporate flying is not for everyone, but to say that 121 flying is 10 times better? are you stoned? I have a pristine corporate job flying as a captain on a BBJ and I fly for a 121 airline on the Airbus, and will say that besides being gone alot more in my BBJ job, it is way more fun and pays a bunch more than I would ever make at an airline, I work my BBJ job part time and bet I still make more than you ever will

I have been in both worlds, and will say that the variation in flying and the Int'l flying is much more enjoyable than hitting the same places over and over again

 

[BornAgainPagan]

Wow Thats a Tuffy

If Delta Survives ASA will be the place to go.

If Delta runs into trouble I would say Flight Options is the way to go.



Remember This: Your Best Corporate Job is still worse than your worst Airline Job. Flying 121 Rocks! Only thing that really stinks is FO pay at a regional. Other than FO Pay ASA is a 10 times better than any corporate aviation job.

rajflyboy,

With your sophomoric comments it's hard to believe you have 16500 hours. Do really think that flying for Pfizer or GE is worse than, say, flying for Planet, or Colgan?

Also, there are NO airplanes that are certified or even unofficially designated as "121 aircraft" as you say. Do you really think that 121 is some badge of glory? Why don't you go to your local McDonald's? Some of your high school buddies might be there.

Did you get your experience from MS flight sim?

 

[rajflyboy]

I like stirring up troubles!

 

[English]

Remember This: Your Best Corporate Job is still worse than your worst Airline Job. Flying 121 Rocks! Only thing that really stinks is FO pay at a regional. Other than FO Pay ASA is a 10 times better than any corporate aviation job.

This is officially the dumbest comment I have ever read on flightinfo.

I have a new candidate for my ignore list.

 

[rajflyboy]

ENGLISH:


Another........couldn't make it to a 121 job pilot!

 

[English]

ENGLISH:


Another........couldn't make it to a 121 job pilot!

Interesting comment coming from a Netjets pilot.

 

[rajflyboy]

Yeppp

 

[Heavy Set]

ENGLISH:


Another........couldn't make it to a 121 job pilot!

Uhhh, I think English flies for Aloha on the 737.

How about we focus on answering the original question... I think Delta might very well file for Chap. 11 protection in order to restructure its debt - and that would be helpful given its $20 billion debt load. I don't see ASA impacted too much - especially given its recent move to SLC from DFW. It seems like ASA is being treated better than Comair in terms of expansion. I don't think ASA would be a bad choice but I don't know much about the upgrade time. I have heard upgrade time at FLOPS can be very long now, and there are rumors floating around that it could (and I stress "could") be acquired by Netjets. That's what I have heard and I don't know how that could potentially impact newhires.

Do you know what you would be flying at FLOPS? If they offer King Air I would definitely go straight to ASA. Good luck and let us know what you choose.

 

[GVFlyer]

Remember This: Your Best Corporate Job is still worse than your worst Airline Job. Flying 121 Rocks! Only thing that really stinks is FO pay at a regional. Other than FO Pay ASA is a 10 times better than any corporate aviation job.


ENGLISH:

Another........couldn't make it to a 121 job pilot!

English is a highly qualified Part 121, Boeing 737 pilot...


If you get the right corporate position you will be paid as much as a senior legacy airline captain used to be paid, fly better equipment to more interesting places, have greater job security and enjoy a better quality of life. You will also develop personal relationships with people who appreciate what you do for them and in many cases be an executive in the parent company.

I assume that ASA, like a good corporate position, has a Defined Benefit Pension Plan, offers stock options, has profit sharing, a bonus plan, a discount employee stock purchase plan, a 401k, a world class health benefits plan and post retirement long term health care. Right?


Your truly uninformed post clearly demonstrates the veracity of this axiom:

The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits.




GV









.

 

[mmmdonut]

Whats a 121 aircraft?

 

[AA717driver]

Having extensive experience in "121 airplanes", I would say definitely go with the airline job--if this were 1998.

Now, if you start with a commuter, you compete with all the captains at all the other commuters plus military guys plus furloughed airline types like me and my several thousand highly qualified friends for that golden ring of a job at one of a handful of non-bankrupt airlines.

You could gamble that ASA will be one of the surviving commuters down the road and make your bed there. There are worse fates.

Or, you could used your experience at FLOP's to ease into the corporate world. Network at FBO's, don't expect the moon and the stars from this business--let someone else be bitter. You don't have to make your first job your last. I worked at 4 commuters prior to getting my "last" job at TWA.

I believe there is more opportunity for a motivated individual with a positive attitude in the corporate arena. You just need to find a way to get experience to move up.TC

 

[gunfyter]

maybe

but where are the bulk of jobs? Are there as many jobs to be had in corporate aviation?

The jobs I have gotten I got but didn't KNOW anybody... just applied and let the resume do the talking. Can that be done in the corporate world? Perhaps... I did get called by the Chief Pilot at GE after simply sending a resume ... but I did not get hired.

 

[GVFlyer]

maybe

but where are the bulk of jobs? Are there as many jobs to be had in corporate aviation?

I dunno. I can help with the numbers for Gulfstreams:

Total aircraft

44 - G500/G550

190 - G-V

4 - G450

36 - G300/G400

500 - G-IV

200 - G-III

249 - G-II

1223 total jets X 1.5 pilots per seat (normal minimum corporate manning) equals, very conservatively, approximately 3669 Gulfstream jobs.


Part 121, right now, is a very risky proposition. I just read on the ALPA website that Independence is flying with less than 50% loads and is expected to file Chapter 11 Bankruptcy in January. All of the legacy carriers are either in bankruptcy or on the verge of filing with the possible exception of Northwest whose pilots gave up their last raise and just agreed to another paycut of 18%. As of today, top pay at US Air is $145,000. Southwest is beginning to experience mature airline problems and has recently signed a contract with their flight attendants that they can't afford (according to financial analysts). ATA won't be able to make loan repayments in January. JetBlue stock has lost 50% of value in the last six months and no one knows how successful they will be after their sweetheart deal with EADS/Airbus comes to an end.

Bombardier will layoff 2,000 workers in the next nine months due primarily to languishing RJ sales even though Regional Jets are the new airline paradigm.

Tough choices...

GV

 

[gunfyter]

GV

You are right. But can you get those corporate jobs without help from the inside?

 

[spitfiremk8]

For all the Corpoarte guys, keep in mind that the average corporate department (that means not all of them) folds up in 2.8 years (NBAA). I can tell you that I am leaving my corporate job flying a brand new Hawker 800 XP to go to ASA (and did not think about it twice). Not saying that all corporate jobs are bad. Another thing for people wanting to go fly 121: don't wait until you're old! I see too many guys that are good friends of mind that are now past 60 and have regrets that they never tried (most of them).


Just my 2 cts.

 

[NJAowner]

Falcon Capt

Raj -- I don't know you, but from the basis of knowledgable and informative posts I think FalconCapt has forgotten more about flying than you ever knew. He is informative, respectful, never slings mud, and is quite frankly a class act. I'm sorry, but I do not think you appear even close to that.

Maybe you are a great pilot, it just doesn't show here.

Fly safe.

 

[sleepy]

This is officially the dumbest comment I have ever read on flightinfo.

I have a new candidate for my ignore list.

I hope I am still on your list.

I hate to agree with English, but she is right on this one. I have flown for two 121 airlines and two large corporate operations. Both airline jobs had their moments of fun, but the pay, benifits, QOL, and job security are much better in a good corporate job (like the one I have now).

 

[rajflyboy]

NJA Owner

Its widely understood in the flying business that an Airline Job is more sought after than a Corporate flying job. The events of 9/11 have changed that to an extent. I would be willing to bet most of today's pilots would still prefer to be in an airline job over a corporate job.

Sorry but this is a fact! Its not about being a class act. Its about pure facts!

Its nothing against you the customer. Having a known schedule and other factors typically make Airline flying a better job. Safety is a biggy as well. Most airline's fly into larger airports with better approach's and the pilots are more familiar with the airports too.

Another thing to consider:

Corporate Job and a Fractional Job are two different animals as well.


Falcon Captain doesn't appear to have had any Airline Experience in his background >> so how can he understand this subject?????

 

[JetCapt69]

door greeter?

Get out of aviation, that is the only SAFE bet anymore.

 

[English]

I hope I am still on your list.

Nope. I took you off when you came to your senses and left ASA for corporate.

I figured we now have at least SOMETHING in common.

 

[waveoff]

Back to the original subject...

Mark, if I was you I would take ASA over FLOPs. The only way to get ahead here is if you're an ex-military, a$$ kissing, yes man. If an individual is all of those things then FLOPs is not such a bad deal. I've flown 121, Fractional and Corporate. Operationally speaking, there was more order in the way things were run at the 121 airline. Everyone is different though. Personally, I like knowing where I'm always flying to. With a Fractional or Coporate job you never really know...and this appeals to some people. Me, I don't like suprises. Plus, there seemed to be more camaraderie at the 121 job. If you really want to go with a Fractional I would suggest something other than THIS place where backdoor politics is SOP. Citation Shares maybe? Good luck to you with whatever you decide to do.

 

[FracCapt]

Nope. I took you off when you came to your senses and left ASA for corporate.

So...what are you insinuating about a person that leaves the corporate world(say, flying a CJ) to go to a 121 carrier? Hmmmmm?

 

[English]

So...what are you insinuating about a person that leaves the corporate world(say, flying a CJ) to go to a 121 carrier? Hmmmmm?

Crazy, I guess!



I've always enjoyed both corporate and airline flying. I don't think I'll ever be classified as an "airline" pilot or a "corporate" pilot. I'll probably continue to do both as long as I can.

 

[WrknStff]

Have you guys gone to the regional forum and read the answers to the exact same question over there (it's easy to find, it has the exact same title)? If you haven't, you should. Lot of ASA types saying by all means go the fractional route. Grass is always greener somewhere else in aviation than where you work right now.