Flight Options Job Offer/Decision

[WabiSabi]

I notice that most of the posts here are extremely negative about FLOPS.

I can understand if you think this message board is not representative of the true state of morale @ FLOPS. Many message boards are often frequented by the fringes. However, what you read about FLOPS is an exception.

Towards the beginning. support for union representation was almost nil. The first drive didn't even yield enough cards for a vote to be held, not even close. In less than 2 years, not only were enough cards sent in for a vote but, 67% of the pilot group voted for Teamsters representation. There were even fervent anti union pilots that are now involved in the leadership and gladly paying dues. Even some of the management can do no wrong a$$ kissers are now supporters and flying the pledge.

Pilots have been leaving in droves. Ask one of those optimistic managers that interviewed you about pilot attrition, especially lately. There is also a mass exodus of mechanics. They often have to use contract mechanics for scheduled maintenance.

Don't let management paint a rosey picture. They have LIED to the pilot group time and again. Haven't you been in aviation for a while? You should never make a decision based on airplanes a company says they will get. They won't even pay the price for decent interiors and paint jobs. Just hang out @ LAS and ask a FLOPS Beechjet pilot if you can look in their plane....especially if they have a TA or CW tail number. Some of the planes would probably make your freighter Caravan look pristine.

I recently left there after 6 years and I accepted a 16,000.00 pay cut and I could not be happier. Working at FLOPS was an everyday battle. Not only were you driven to fatigue by long days, 5 am shows for a 3 pm departure and cheap hotel beds. A large part of the fatigue was from the constant fighting with management and mx controllers trying to convince you that your airplane was airworthy when it clearly wasn't. It is also a drain on your energy when you know that you could be next to do the carpet dance at HQ for something stupid on their part. (many pilots have been called in because their legs per day was lower than most and it took a union rep to point out to management how ridiculous it was to blame the pilots. In every case, it was shown that it was scheduling and maintenance yet, management kept conducting these "productivity meetings"These "productivity meetings" have stopped for now...perhaps because they realized that it wasn't very productive to take a pilot off line and pay the extra expense in airfares. HOWEVER, they are still calling in pilots for other bogus reasons they have conjured up In other words, management is on a constant intimidation campaign)

We have had pilots leave aviation altogether because of FLOPS. It was so bad for so long, their perception of working in aviation became tainted. They were so disgruntled that they thought every aviation gig was like FLOPS. Also, it isn't a question of insatiable pilots wanting rose petals thrown at their feet with a grass is always greener no matter where you work mentality. FLOPS just truly sucks and management has ZERO respect for the pilots.

Anyway, as was advised in other threads, shoot for any of the other fracs. They are all hiring. Good luck.

 

[Wankel7]

I am such a newb to this stuff...but since it is so bad over there why don't the pilots strike?

 

[WabiSabi]

I am such a newb to this stuff...but since it is so bad over there why don't the pilots strike?

First you have to have a contract and that contract has to have a strike clause. It is illegal for the union to organize a work action. Besides, it is probably not a good idea in the middle of contract negotiations. Pilots that are doing so should continue to "fly the pledge" and if more pilots do so, then that should accomplish what I think that you're implying.

 

[johnsonrod]

It's tempting, but you really shouldn't do it. FLOPS has a proud group of pilots, but it really represents the worst in terms of management. There is no long-term thinking for management - it is slash and burn. Why put yourself through that? Think of it this way - all of the other fractionals besides FLOPS will be hiring to cover their own attrition due to Netjets. That means you could get offers from Flexjet, Citationshares and Avantair. I believe both Citationshares and Avantair have LAS domiciles - check them out. Of course, apply to Netjets (at least get in line) as well.

FLOPS would be a big mistake. Great pilots but a crappy situation that won't likely get better for a long time. Avoid that needless stress...

 

[Frac Cap]

Rockwings, how much did they say the training contract would cost if you left?

 

[rockwings]

They didn't tell me what the training contract would cost... they left that "blank" on the form... I imagine it to be at least $12,000 or more. It is really sad to hear that conditions there are so bad. I was really kind of looking forward to flying jets again and now I am pretty disillusioned about the whole deal. I guess I just can't grasp the reasoning behind any management team treating a fairly valuable asset like a pilot so poorly... A real shame! I guess I was being blind and too optimistic about the new owners and the future contract. I still think the contract might really improve the whole situation but, that is a definite unknown... I hate to roll the dice and lose...I do live in LAS after all!

 

[VA Buckeye]

Rock,

Great bunch of pilots at FLOPS but miserable management get your resume and app. to NetJets NOW. FLOPS is a nightmare, I have been there just short of 8 years and will be leaving in about a month for better QoL ,working less days/month and a pay cut.

 

[dime line]

what was the upgrade time?
What schedule did they tell you, you would be on?

 

[jetwash]

14 hour days for 8 days in a row with 10 hours min rest. Stand by at FBO at 5:00 am for a 12:00 noon departure. Is what you have to look forward to. Oh did I mention that on Day 8 it is some times up to 16 hours duty before you get home at 1:00am. That is if they get you airlines in time. I had may occasions when I came home day 9 at noon.

As for taking a $14,000 pay cut you will never make it up at Flight Options. Expect to be right seat in a BeechJet for 8 to 10 years. Also consider the health insurance. If you get sick and it is simple you are OK but we have guys that developed cancer then Flight Options kicked them off the insurance and sent them to pay $1100 / month on Cobra. That is the mentality of the management here.

If you do take the job at Flight Options please post the name of your current employer since I know of a few Flight options pilots who will be looking for a pay increase and a more stress free work environment.

 

[rockwings]

Wow, it sure isn't looking good over there... They kind of alluded to maybe a 5 year upgrade time but, said that SIC pay would match Captain pay after 5 years. I had no clue that it would actually take up to 10 years! The schedule is now 8 on/7 off company wide which now doesn't seem that appealing considering the posts. Kicking employees off of Health Insurance for a serious illness is about the worst thing I have heard here! I sure have not heard anything positive to make me want to work there... Thank you all for being so candid. It is the kind of real information I needed!