Flight Options Job Offer/Decision

[jetwash]

They kind of alluded to maybe a 5 year upgrade time !

Go to LAS and talk to the Beechjet pilots and ask the FO's how many years they worked at Flt Opts and how much longer before they can bid on a Captain slot.

I know of many 6 and 7 year FO's with no hope of an upgrade for another 2 or 3 years if at all!!!!
Now put yourself at the bottom of the list.

As for the health insurance the company reasoning was that since the pilot was not able to work a certain # of days ( due to kemo) he was no longer considered a full time employee and was not entitled to health insurance from the company. So they kicked him off.
Believe it or not it is not illegal for them to do that just immoral.

 

[Freedom]

The Health Insurance/ Cancer Story is 100% accurate

Once you run out of your Vacation Time, you can go on Short Term Disability, then APPLY for long term disability after the short term ends at 90 days.

But there is no obligation for them to continue paying your Health Insurance premium portion they pay, after 120 days. That's when your protection under the Family and Medical Leave Act ends.

So the company, being Self Insured, pulls their contribution to your medical coverage, hoping you cannot afford the whole payment (about $1100 per month for an Options Pilot with a family when the company withdrawls its share of the contribution), so they can drop you from a policy which THEY Underwrite!

The policy at Options is administered by United Healthcare under Contract to Flight Options, but Flight Options gets all the Bills (Self Insured).

Can you see how unethical this is? One of our Pilots gets a serious, life threatening illness, and Options Management tries to bleed him dry, hoping he won't be able to afford 100% of the premium, so they can stop paying the bills.

Anyone looking for the true face of Flight Options management need only read this Post again. Its that bad.

Freedom is not Free.

 

[rockwings]

Someone just tried to send me a private/instant message but, my pop-up blocker blocked it... Please resend, thanks.

 

[Freedom]

Caution Gentlemen

Rockwings may be exactly who he says he is, or he could be another alter ego of our Uncle Bob (B19).

Be very careful about providing contact info to this guy for advice, even contained within a PM. You might not like the results if you discover he is not who he claims to be.

Freedom is not Free.

 

[Ralph Wiggums]

They kind of alluded to maybe a 5 year upgrade time but, said that SIC pay would match Captain pay after 5 years.

Perhaps one of the most ridiculous things I have seen posted on Flight Info ever...

Check your PMs.........

 

[rockwings]

Got it that time, thanks...

 

[rockwings]

I am not sure who Bob is but, I am certainly who I say I am and quite sincere. I was really ready to accept the job offer until reading these posts and replies. I can't tell you how grateful I am for all the candid advice and helping me avoid a miserable mistake. Sorry to hear that you have to be paranoid on this board...

 

[rockwings]

Perhaps one of the most ridiculous things I have seen posted on Flight Info ever...

Check your PMs.........

Not sure but, think they meant that the [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]$4333 per month / 5 year F.O. pay is equal to 1st year Captain pay on the Beechjet....Still not great after 5 years![/FONT]

 

[WabiSabi]

Even though it has been the case up to now and for some time to come, I might have to disagree with the long upgrade times. There is currently a mass exodus from FLOPS (including 9 year Legacy Captains). Unless the contract is complete in the next year, I believe the upgrade time will drop significantly in the couple of years. I'm still advising to stay away. After all, bottom feeder regionals have quick upgrades but, there is a good reason for it.

BTW; When I make disparaging comments about FLOPS or bottom feeder airlines, I'm not talking about the pilots (far from it), just management.

 

[choppengruven]

They kind of alluded to maybe a 5 year upgrade time but, said that SIC pay would match Captain pay after 5 years.

I was there 5 years. No upgrade in sight. Also whenever my fairy tale upgrade would have showed it would have just been a title and responsibility change thats it. also it would lock me into the same pay I was already at for another year I believe resulting in a (you guessed it) pay cut to upgrade. Some of the best people I have met in my career are stuck there and I wish them the best. But I also have to admit, that is the worst job I have ever had.

 

[HSDriver]

Face the Facts

I really appreciate the info on the schedules and MX issues. By "cool new jets", I was referring to the Phenom 300 orders. I realize it will be a while until they are online. I fly 20 year old Caravans so anything is new comparatively. I actually fly during the day and usually as a "Hot Standby" at the airport as a backup. Quality of Life has always been more important than money to me. Is Flight Options really that awful that everyone hates it? Or, is the animosity mostly due to low pay that might be somewhat resolved with the hopefully impending contract? I can guess that the 8 on/7 off schedule sounds OK on paper until you have to work 8 consecutive 14 hour days... I would guess that maybe most of those 7 days are just spent recuperating and catching up on home projects instead of having fun... The staff interviewing at Flight Options gave me the impression that they believed the new ownership meant a fresh start for the company. I did notice a huge cadre of about a dozen FAA guys there during my visit though. This is an important decision for me and the main variables with the new ownership and the Union negotiations make this a tough decision. I notice that most of the posts here are extremely negative about FLOPS. Does anyone hold out any hope of a contract improving conditions and morale? There is something to be said for single pilot flying with boxes that don't complain too... My job is pretty low stress. I would hate to bail and find myself in a nightmare scenario. I had been excited about starting at Flight Options (except for the pay cut) until I started reading the posts here. I am really having second thoughts now...

You're 58 years old flying a low stress job that gets you home most days and pays decently. Why would you want to take a pay cut this late in your career and play even more catch-up? I'd be aiming at lifestyle rather than shiny new jets.

The Phenom is not even advertised until late 2009. That means it probably won't even be around until 2010 and then only a trickle of them will come. It will be years before you see it, if at all. Meanwhile you took a huge pay cut and lowered your retirement contributions, for what?

You mentioned the recruiters talking about the new beginning from HIG. The truth is that we (the employees) have heard nothing, not a peep, from HIG. They have made no communication with the pilot group at all. All we've had are some fancy letters from flops talking about the great future of flops. Nothing from HIG.

And yes... you will be dragging after a few 14 hour days. And there are eight of them.

Oh, and I forgot to say. There is no five year upgrade. Guys have been there well over that long and not upgraded. And if the only way that upgrade time shortens is through rapid attrition, what does that tell you?

HS

 

[On Your Six]

So, to bring it all together, just avoid Flight Options. It will be stressful, exhausting and demoralizing. Fractional flying, in general, is very different from the type of flying you are doing now - you need to understand that. It is adhoc and you can be gone for long periods of time if you are up for that. There are a lot of positives, but it would be a major lifestyle change.

Clearly, it would be in your best interest to apply to the other fractionals (Netjets being a top choice) if you want to go that route. Fill out your applications and get moving on that. Your current job is stable and less stressful - not a bad place to be until you hear from the other fractionals.

I would avoid Flight Options like the plague right now (until things get a lot better).

 

[jetwash]

For the upgrade times just look at the numbers.

If Flight Options gets 1 new aircraft a year that is 2 new captain spots. If it gets 3 a year that is 6 captain spots per year.
(2 or 3 aircraft a year is what is forcast)

So you have 6 captain X 10 years = 60 captain spots at the end of 10 years.

You will start at Beecjet copilot # 200. In 10 years there will only be 140 copilots in front of you waiting for an upgrade. That is not counting the Hawker copilots that will probably bid for the Beechjet Captain spots. You can probably cut that number in half from all of the guys quiting so there would only be about 70 guys in front of you in 10 years.

So in your first meeting with the company they have already lied to you.

 

[Freedom]

I'm sorry to hear it too....

I am not sure who Bob is but, I am certainly who I say I am and quite sincere. I was really ready to accept the job offer until reading these posts and replies. I can't tell you how grateful I am for all the candid advice and helping me avoid a miserable mistake. Sorry to hear that you have to be paranoid on this board...

But that is the exact type of environment you would find yourself in should you elect to come to Flight Options.

They have to lie to you and paint a pretty picture, hoping you'll come to work for them, since they can't get anyone qualified.

Here's an idea. Tell them you have done alot of research on the Company, and feel that the Upgrade times will be more like 6-7 years, at minimum. You are still interested in the job, but with that length of time til Upgrade, and having the ability to go to Republic Airlines (3rd largest regional) and be a Captain on an E170 in 2 years with their estimated hiring of 700 pilots next year (look it up on airlinepilotcentral.com), they will have to sweeten the pot for you (or Honey Pot if you prefer, the non flushable lav you will be cleaning out every day full of fecal matter and urine).

Tell them you'd be willing to start for them at what they are advertising as 5th year First Officer pay (1st yr Captain pay) of $4333 per month. Get it in writing, because if their lips are moving, they are lying.

Hell, if they agree, take the job and don't look back.

Freedom is not Free.

 

[skyismyoffice]

They're all telling the truth...

870 pilots when I started 2.5 years ago less than 600 now. This place has done nothing but go down hill...

 

[208starcheck]

The best advise I read on this thread.... Go down to the KLAS Signature and talk to some Flight Options (FLOPS) crews.

The last year or so I've talked to a lot of FLOPS crews. They all have the same opinion. If you ask a couple of their pilots you will have a very accurate survey. It's a shame, they deserve better.

 

[rockwings]

Yes, talking directly to some more of the FLOPS pilots is a good idea but, all of this great advice has pretty much convinced me that I have a great gig now! I would be crazy to take on a stressful nightmare job with a questionable future for less pay and less time at home. It just doesn't add up or make any sense. I am way beyond "shiny new jet syndrome" at this stage in my life... Thanks again to you all for taking the time to help me out in avoiding a real mistake!

 

[Dingo221]

Better go to Atlantic in LAS to meet any of us !

 

[WabiSabi]

I can only hope that even more potential new-hires
checks this board.

Hey Bob or any of you management lackeys! How about them apples?!?!?:laugh:

 

[buckeyes95]

Run Away From Flops As Fast As You Can!