Flight Options Accident?

[Safetycheck]

Flydog

Is that how you address fellow crewmembers as morons, Flydog?

HAve you ever commanded a jet...I dont mean fly it stick and rudder....I dont mean sole manipulator...I mean PIC. Aircraft Commander.

 

[flydog]

No. Just the morons but I dont work with anybody like that

Yes. Thats what I do for a living

 

[TAG2]

SOP

Safety Check:

I am sure that Flight Options POI is very involved in making any required changes in procedures and SOP following the accident, just like when any other certificate holder has an accident.

 

[Safetycheck]

Anyone see the AIN article

Anyone read the AIN article about the Flight Options Accident?

 

[Jetz]

Reiteration

The article in Aviation International News about the Flight Options accident (s) seems to be just a re-iteration of the NTSB report. It did not seem to provide any new information about the accidents.

The article does seem to show, however, some sort of bias by Aviation International News against Flight Options... I did not take notice of any articles about the NetJets accident in Leakey TX....having said that, last month they did have a blurb in there about that accident...without many detailed facts.

Interesting!

 

[Toploader]

Jetz:

AIN gets their info straight from the NTSB. If you have read both reports, you'll notice that the report on 397QS is very short and does not have a whole lot of info. This is a typical NTSB preliminary report. On the other hand, the FlOps preliminary report goes into much greater detail, so there is more of a story to write in AIN.

There seems to be no rhyme or reason to what a preliminary NTSB report should look like. Just read several of them and you'll see a wide variation in how much info is there and how it is displayed.

Why on earth would the NTSB and AIN be biased against FlOps? Or toward NJA for that matter?

Thankfully nobody was hurt badly in either accident. "There but for the grace of God go I".

Toploader

 

[Turbinehead]

Clearly the NTSB is not bias

I think he was saying not that the NTSB is biased...obviously....but that the magazine Aviation International tends to show somewhat of a bias.

No, the NTSB report on the Net Jets accident is not shorter because of anything OTHER than the fact that the Netjets guys didnt sit there and sing like canaries in front of the investigators.

On the other hand, the Flight Options crew was doing just that... singing like canaries. I think they would have done well to use common sense and keep the lip zipped until they got some legal advice. Not only did these guys show their lack of experience by making rookie mistakes, but then they made the even bigger error of making comments that incriminated them for all of the world to see from now until eternity on the internet.

They will never do that again.

Poor guys.

 

[Safetycheck]

Liability / Negligence

Discussing with my "cronies" this Flight Options accident, we were debating the possibility that the owners of this particular airframe could sue the pilots for negligence. Think about it...they want to recover the value of the airframe, and the pax will probably want to sue for mental anguish, pain and suffering, etc.

Not to mention what the company probably wants to do to those poor guys who made this error.

What kind of insurance is available to fractional pilots to cover them in the event that all of the 1/16th owners, (or whatever fraction is sold on that airframe) want to go after the pilots to be made whole?

 

[Toploader]

Safety check, my man.... Let this one go! It's been beat dead!

 

[flydog]

I have never heard of an airline or any other type of commercial pilot being personally sued for their actions during a crash. Maybe it has happened but insurance companies and airlines have a lot deeper pockets than working stiff pilots. Most guys that I know that are flying at the fractionals dont exactly have a house in Aspen and a Mercedes in the garage.

I also think its time to let this one go SafetyCheck. I dont know what your agenda is with Flight Options but this isnt the first time someone screwed up and god knows there have been far bigger screwups that killed an awful lot of people in the history of aviation.

If this topic interests you and want to save the world from any further aviation accidents why dont you check out job opportunities at the NTSB. That might satisfy your morbid curiosity in aviation tragedies.

 

[Safetycheck]

Get with it

Flydog, I would hardly characterize the healthy discussion of a Pilot's potential liability in lawsuits brought by fractional owners as a "morbid curiosity in aviation tragedies."

I dont know why you and other potential Flight Options people (you are not a FO employee, correct Flydoggie?) are so defensive that you cannot partake in a discussion. It baffles me and others I know who peruse this forum.

We believe this is a valid point of discussion for those considering a career in this relatively new field of aviation...one that is certainly still in the growth phase and where many aspects such as pilot liability to many owners is still untested to my knowledge.

An intelligent response would be appreciated. Keep your passions and emotions in check, little boy.

 

[Toploader]

Safetycheck....

It sounds like you're trying to take advantage of a somewhat "captive" audience here and force discussions that aren't really interesting to most.

There have meen several articles written referring to individual pilot/owner liability in the event of a crash of a frac plane.

Suggest you check them out at http://www.avweb.com

Look in the legal section.

BTW, do you work for a fractional?

 

[Turbinehead]

Unstabilized approach

"I thought we were Vref (113 knots) plus 40, and coming down at 1,700 feet per minute. When we touched down, maybe 50 to 60 percent of the runway remained." Flight options FO.

Gang, if this scenario dosent scream for GO AROUND...I dont know what does!

:-(

 

[Toploader]

Turbinehead, since you never have made a mistake in the air, you must be getting them all out of your system on this forum. Let it go.

You are surprised and amazed by the simplest concepts. This crew simply made a mistake.

Please don't post on this topic again unless you have new and relevant info.

Toploader

 

[FJ2000]

Boy, this used to be a good web site

 

[Mickey757]

O.K. guys,
This thing has been beaten to DEATH at least a dozen times!

Obviously, Mr. Safetycheck has an AGENDA with the FLOPS guys!
Did he get turned down for a job? Kinda makes you wonder? He seems to be quite obssed with the whole flops operation.
He claims to be ex-TWA; was he as obssed with their accidents, or better yet with their screw ups? You remember Mr. Safetyckeck the high speed abort in a 1011 after the f/o started to rotate the thing, and the "HIGH TIME" captain aborted at JFK! We could discuss that one for the next year or two, I bet that would make you happy eh? But I have a better suggestion for you, why don't you go help yourself to some "self pleasure", relief some of that built up frustration you have since you've retired. Then maybe a little fishing by yourself, since you problably would criticize the hell out of anybody else that went with you, and a little more "self pleasure". There, bet that would make a new man of you! Then you can come back and play with the rest of us without being so dam arrogant!!!!!!!!!!!!


P.S.

You've contributed NOTHING to that whole discussion of the FLOPS misshap. You might think you did, but go back and read it again. All you did was criticize a couple of kids who don't need you to remind them they've screwed up! It's so easy to kick others when they are on the ground isn't it Mr. Safetycheck?
Oh, about the fishing trip, here's an idea, why don't you invite the other self-gratifying a$$ hole on this site (Mr. Turbine Head) to join you? I'm sure you'll both get great pleasure out of each other's company.

Best to you both!

 

[Turbinehead]

A quote from the past.....

Chicken or the egg?

"Do we have the best safety record because we have the best pilots? Or is it the other way around? --- Kenn Ricci

Hmm.....

 

[Toploader]

Tell us a little about yourself, Turbinehead.

Who do you fly for? Which fractionals have you applied to? Which ones have turned you down?

With a little background info, perhaps we can put your posts into their proper context.

Toploader

 

[Turbinehead]

Am I mistaken or...

Am I mistaken, or is this thread the MOST read topic on the Fractionals Bulletin Board?

This topic must be of interest to many people! It should be of interest.

I just wish there would be more posts ON TOPIC...ok Toploader?

 

[Safetycheck]

6000 hits means this topic is hot

I will not take the time to respond to some of the unprofessional posts related to this topic.

I will, however, take the time to comment on the fact that this thread has almost 6000 hits, more than any other thread I have seen under the "Fractionals" header. Perhaps this topic has been "beaten to death" in this particular forum, but I ask you this. Is there such a thing as beating to death a subject that will improve safety in the industry? Do we accuse Flight Safety instructors of beating to death their curriculum every 6 months? Does that diminish the importance of safety. Hell NO!

From what I understand from the boys out on the line, happy Flight Options / Travel Air pilots are few and far between. That attitude is evident well before you even meet and greet them. It exudes from their pores. That is unfortunate.

However, we all wish the company well in its endeavours, as... how Flight Options goes, so does the industry. Don't mistake my interest in this topic with an ill feeling toward any one company...i have nothing but positive energy for FO and all the companies out there trying to make this fractional thing a success.

SC.