Flight Instructor Shortage

[CesnaCaptn]

I realize that this doesn't directly have to do with regional airlines. I figured there are many on this board that are recent or current instructors.

I'm doing some consulting for a flight school and I was told by the owner that he is having trouble recruiting flight instructors. He is offering $28 per hour and free advanced ratings. Is this a local shortage isolated to Northern California, or is it felt nationwide. I realize that the regionals are hiring pilots with less and less time.

P.S. If your a flight instructor seeking employment, PM me if you're interested.

 

[flyboyzz1]

I know in the Chicago area they can't keep us in stock...

 

[twighead]

It's not hard to see why.

Large amount of expensive training.

Huge responsibility.

Crappy hours.

Thankless job for crap pay and no benefits.

Oh wait that's pretty much my job as an FO.

 

[DrewBlows]

My company released an memo saying that because of the pilot shortage they anticipated lowering the minimums to Commmercial pilot standards. It went on to say that they expected that pool to dry up in about 18 months.

I valued my time as a flight instructor, and will never let it expire, but given the opportuntity I would have gone jet flying.

 

[KSACviator]

My company released an memo saying that because of the pilot shortage they anticipated lowering the minimums to Commmercial pilot standards. It went on to say that they expected that pool to dry up in about 18 months.

I valued my time as a flight instructor, and will never let it expire, but given the opportuntity I would have gone jet flying.

Just curious, what company do you work for?

 

[Way2Broke]

When it comes to the shortage...all I can say is.....I believe. YIP where are you at on this one?

 

[Crash Pad]

I'm not much of a Union guy but my contribution to the labor group has been to tell everyone I know that being a pilot is a horrible decision and should be avoided at all cost. I then tell them about my W2, etc....

I like to think that I've swayed some would be pilots away from this profession.

Another couple of years and supply and demand will start to take effect. Get ready Joe public I know some people at ALPA who don't mind if you have to pay another couple of bucks to support what we have coming to us!

 

[AWACoff]

Just curious, what company do you work for?

Who else...MESA. It gets better. They are hiring down to 200 hours total time. Nothing says "true professional" like a restricted commercial ticket.

 

[DrewBlows]

Who else...MESA. It gets better. They are hiring down to 200 hours total time. Nothing says "true professional" like a restricted commercial ticket.

I don't work for Mesa, but Comair. How are their certificates "restricted"?

 

[michael707767]

My company released an memo saying that because of the pilot shortage they anticipated lowering the minimums to Commmercial pilot standards. It went on to say that they expected that pool to dry up in about 18 months.

And thus the real reason the FAA is raising the retirement age to 65. They need to keep those pilots flying.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

If the CFI/pilot shortage keeps up the industry will look for cheaper ways to staff US airplanes: foreign labor.

 

[BoilerUP]

If the CFI/pilot shortage keeps up the industry will look for cheaper ways to staff US airplanes: foreign labor.

Wouldn't be any "pilot shortage" if the risk/reward balance went a little in labor's direction...

 

[Goose Egg]

I'm not sure about a full-on "shortage" here in New England, but from what I hear, there are definitely jobs to be had. I must admit that I'm not really in the loop because I haven't been looking--I have a pretty good instructing job, and so my next step is probably not to another instructing job (especially with the amount of time that I have.)

Two other things for the record. I'll have to do some quoting:

...my contribution...has been to tell everyone I know that being a pilot is a horrible decision and should be avoided at all cost. I then tell them about my W2, etc.

There is something to be said about having enough for you needs in life, but you really can't use a W2 as a yardstick for career success; someone will always have a bigger one, and you will, in effect be unsuccessful; life is a zero-sum game, because only one person will make the most money, and have the so-called "brass ring" or whatever the freak you guys call it. On the other hand, if you define career success as doing something you love and recieving adequate means to cover you and your family's needs, then you can be successful in anything you choose. Life is not a zero-sum game because finding something that you enjoy for your career is available to everyone, therefore, everyone can be successful. I honestly believe this.

Also, isn't life more about the journey than the destination? I mean, we need the destination, or else there would be no journey. But really, if I get to the point that I have a really "good" job in aviation, and I decide that I totally hate it, it will have all been worthwhile, because it will have been one heck of a ride. I'm instructing now. Been doing for close to 3 years and I love it. I'm sure flying for a regional will have its ups and downs, but I'll love that too. And whatever I end up doing in aviation, I'll love that too because number one, it's flying, and number two, it's all part of the journey. Without the journey, I am nothing. And I'm noticing that not many people think this way. Are we so impatient and risk-averse that we can't tolerate a little adversity? (I think that's the real reason we are running out of instructors!)

In any case, you could try to warn me away from aviation, but it wouldn't work. This is my decision, and I've made it. Success (per my definition) can be had, and I will have it. By letting someone else tell me what I want in life, I am in effect letting them superimpose their value system on mine, and that is something that I refuse to do.

Item number two:

My company released an memo saying that because of the pilot shortage they anticipated lowering the minimums to Commmercial pilot standards. It went on to say that they expected that pool to dry up in about 18 months.

You'd think that as a 1000 hour CFI, this would be good news. But it really isn't. I wonder how many of those 250 hour guys are going to make it through training. I'm sure some will, but in the end, will it be worth the effort?

 

[35off]

just some insight

goose egg. You are correct. A W2 is not an accurate tool for measuring success in life. But I think you may be missing the point. When your W2 shows $18k and you are not living off of someone it is really difficult to get by. I would think in New England this point would be even more important as it is not cheap to live up there.

I am in my 3rd year as an FO and I am up to 30K. I am married, the wife makes 25K. Start doing the math... it doesn't get it done.. I have had a second job the entire time I have been at the airline. It gets old being gone from home 4 days and then working when you get home. Say all you want about the love of flying. I am/was like you. I starting flying dads 152 and then gliders at 14. It is a job and I do love flying, but it is a job. You will be told how to fly, where to fly, how to get there, how much fuel you will take. and so on and so on. Instructing is a little different.

I am not telling you that I want to go back to a desk job, but I will tell you that I am still holding on to the dream of making a livable wage. 30k is not gona cut it for me for much longer.

Finally, if you have 1000hr you can too fly at a regional. PM me and I will get you an interview., I should really say I will tell you how to get an interview for yourself.

good luck

 

[WestHouston]

Here in Houston they are hurtin' bad for instructors.

 

[Goose Egg]

But I think you may be missing the point. When your W2 shows $18k and you are not living off of someone it is really difficult to get by. I would think in New England this point would be even more important as it is not cheap to live up there.

Oh, I hear ya. Last year I made just over $20k, and I'm completely supporting myself. It gets tight, but I honestly wouldn't have it any other way.

I am in my 3rd year as an FO and I am up to 30K. I am married, the wife makes 25K. Start doing the math... it doesn't get it done.. I have had a second job the entire time I have been at the airline.

I'm actually pretty happy with my standard of living, and I'm just wishing at this point that I made a little more to save for a rainy day--that would be the "comfort" that I would want. And granted I don't have a wife or kids or any of those concerns yet. But I'm completely confident in my abilities to make things work when I do.

It gets old being gone from home 4 days and then working when you get home. Say all you want about the love of flying. I am/was like you. I starting flying dads 152 and then gliders at 14. It is a job and I do love flying, but it is a job. You will be told how to fly, where to fly, how to get there, how much fuel you will take. and so on and so on. Instructing is a little different.

And that right there is the reason why I want to spend as little time in the airlines as I possibly can. Granted at a good frac/part 91 job, I'll still be told where to fly, and possibly how, but it's just different. I need the variety. I need "hands-on." I already know this about myself.

Finally, if you have 1000hr you can too fly at a regional. PM me and I will get you an interview., I should really say I will tell you how to get an interview for yourself.

Thanks for the heads-up. I'm still a little light in the multi time. Which regional are we talking about here?

-Goose

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Wouldn't be any "pilot shortage" if the risk/reward balance went a little in labor's direction...

Now you are talking about controlling things you can not.....

Goose egg and 350ff have valid points.... Air Line Pilots should make comfortable wages so when they are off duty thay can refresh and come back to work safe to fly. Working a second job isn't relaxing. Worrying about the bills isn't refeshing....

At the same time... many pilots (as is in most professions) enter this profession too much for themsleves. Are they custodians of the profession? Most pilots simply want the rewards the profession has to offer and don't care to ensure the production of the rewards is protected. That is one reason we are in the situation we are now...

Another is simply the evolution of the industry... it is following the pattern of many and it should be no surprise.....

It is intreresting how reality doesn't make it's way to the pilot factories... The dream is still alive for many and they realize it is a nightmare once they get there......

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

It's a nationwide problem, and it directly affects the regionals, as well as the majors.

OVer the last 5 years student pilot starts are down 50%, which means less instructors, and less candidates for regional jobs.

Many airlines are now hiring with 200+/10 MEL, and they are not even CLOSE to filling their classes. If you're a flight instructor and want 91/fractional, go to a regional now, fly a ton of hours, and qualify for that 91/fractional job really quickly.

Oh, and the low-time guys HAVE to make it through training, because that's all they've got. I'm sure the airlines are bending over backwords and doing everything they can to get the new gus through.

They are so desperate, the regionals are thinking about starting Ab-Initio training programs.

cliff
YIP

 

[flyf15]

They are so desperate, the regionals are thinking about starting Ab-Initio training programs.

cliff
YIP

I've heard this too... and this is bad. Why not take the money it takes to train them and use them to pay your pilots better instead? You'd no longer have that shortage and you'd have your choice of much more qualified pilots instead.

The only thing I can think of is it would probably come with some sort of HUGE training agreement... you stay with us for 10 years or you owe us $150,000. That way airlines can get a huge flow of people that will be locked in to their company for low payrates forever.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

They are so desperate, the regionals are thinking about starting Ab-Initio training programs.

cliff
YIP

Yeah, it's called DCA and they'll even let you finance your over-priced training yourself.

 

[Burt Reynolds]

Many airlines are now hiring with 200+/10 MEL, and they are not even CLOSE to filling their classes. If you're a flight instructor and want 91/fractional, go to a regional now, fly a ton of hours, and qualify for that 91/fractional job really quickly.

Many? Like who?

 

[time builder]

They are so desperate, the regionals are thinking about starting Ab-Initio training programs.

cliff
YIP

The word "desperate" has been abused for the last several years. Now they "really mean it."

It seems to me that the "desperate" ones are those who will fly for free, or wages hovering around the poverty line after they just spent tens of thousands on their education.

 

[Jedi_Cheese]

Our flight school has CFI's top out at 800tt before they leave. The chief pilot is the only pilot who has the time to be chief pilot, and that's because he's foreign and can't work elsewhere.

 

[Flyoa1]

If I had to start over and take flying lessons now, I wouldnt go the civilian route. (which I did) Rental fees are out of control. $100 plus for C-172, thats nuts. Sadly, the increase in rates has gone largely for the equipment and not to the instructor. I charged 25/hr in 1995, and the plane was around $50. Now, the plane rate has more than doubled, but the instructor fee has gone up only a couple bucks. WTF over?

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Many American don't understand the Ab-Initio program.
Example:
The airline recuits in various public (non-flying) places, including high schools. Everyone takes tests, and the airlines selects the ones they want. They start with "0" time, and the airline pays for that employee's private and commerical training. When the receive their commercial, then they start in ground school with the airline. The candidates may have all their living expenses paid for while they receive their free flight training.

It's basically the opposite of "pay for training".

cliff
YIP

Who is desperate for very low time guys? I've heard Eagle, Pinnacle, TSA, Colgan, Big Sky, Mesa, etc., etc.

 

[time builder]

Hi!

Many American don't understand the Ab-Initio program.
Example:
The airline recuits in various public (non-flying) places, including high schools. Everyone takes tests, and the airlines selects the ones they want. They start with "0" time, and the airline pays for that employee's private and commerical training. When the receive their commercial, then they start in ground school with the airline. The candidates may have all their living expenses paid for while they receive their free flight training.

It's basically the opposite of "pay for training".

cliff
YIP

Who is desperate for very low time guys? I've heard Eagle, Pinnacle, TSA, Colgan, Big Sky, Mesa, etc., etc.

I think I've heard of a similar program, oh wait, that's the military.

 

[Ineedabrew]

Atlanta flight schools are really hurting for Instructors. A lot of schools are begging ex-Instructors, who are now working for regional’s to come Instruct part-time. Interestingly, the pay has really shot up for Instructors. Is the same going to happen at the regional level?

 

[JonnyKnoxville]

I'm not much of a Union guy but my contribution to the labor group has been to tell everyone I know that being a pilot is a horrible decision and should be avoided at all cost. I then tell them about my W2, etc....

I like to think that I've swayed some would be pilots away from this profession.

Another couple of years and supply and demand will start to take effect. Get ready Joe public I know some people at ALPA who don't mind if you have to pay another couple of bucks to support what we have coming to us!

I do the same thing, now if everyone would follow suit SJS would die.

 

[Salukipilot4590]

Atlanta flight schools are really hurting for Instructors. A lot of schools are begging ex-Instructors, who are now working for regional’s to come Instruct part-time. Interestingly, the pay has really shot up for Instructors. Is the same going to happen at the regional level?

God I hope so! The airlines need to make the job more appealing to outsiders, raising the pay should help!

 

[gear goes down]

I'm a CFI with about 1000 hrs and going to start my multi com training soon. So my question is, if I only have, lets say, 10 hrs of multi would I stand a chance at getting a regional job? I only ask because I’m getting sick of being a flight instructor and ready to move on. If I have to say "right rudder" or "look out side" one more F** time!!..!!!...!!!!!!! HAAA!