Flight 93 Movie

[blueridge71]

The point is if Congress wanted a shiny new law to go after the Sopranos, they should not have billed it as a law used to fight Osama. They used people's fear to gather support for something that would not have passed 5 or 10 years before that.

Perhaps. But there is nothing new about using a law in a different way than it was intended. RICO was intended to be used against the mafia, but the Clintonistas used it to prosecute Pro-Life protesters.

The fundamental problem with anti-terrorism is that you can't wait until the crime has been committed. The vast majority of the 9-11 hijackers committed no crime until they hijacked those airplanes. (Unless that is, you consider minor immigration violations to be a crime. The Democrats and the media don't. The were just "undocumented terrorists.")

Secondly, if they havn't committed a crime, how do you arrest and prosecute them. If you are lucky, you catch them with written plans and a truck full of explosives. The only problem is that if you wait that long, an attack is imminent, and if you miss them, then you have to deal with the aftermath of a terrorist attack. Your suspects are likely dead by their own hand. The families of victims and the media are screaming at you because you didn't act in time to stop the attack.

The hypocrisy is that those same people and media groups would have yelled equally loud if you had violated the terrorist's civil rights by breaking up the cell and arresting them before they committed a crime. After all, don't they have a freedom of speech and a freedom of religion that allows them to plot a violent attack?

Unless the terrorists are stupid enough to put something in writing that is incriminating, they are very hard to prosecute. Just look at the difficulty that the DOJ has had getting any convictions in terrorism cases.

But does that mean that prosecuting was a waste of time? No. Simply by prosecuting and detaining for a short while, the plotters were disrupted. And keep in mind that "not guilty" and "innocent" are two entirely different concepts.

 

[pookie]

Just saw the movie. What a waste of my time. There were grown men and women crying in the theatre...suck it up. On the other hand, we almost got into a fight with a bunch of military guys who were standing in line at the food stand. We were behind them talking about how bush and the US milirtary are nothing but killers, i guess they got offended. When i tried debating them, they had no answers. They were the typical military type that had no brains. That was the highlight of our evening.

peace

 

[JimNtexas]

Troll Alert!

 

[Salty Pirate]

This whole thread is hilarious. We have interest in the middle east because of one thing and one thing only, OIL, period, end of discussion. Kuwait war, stabilize the middle east so we can have our oil. We went back in because of 9/11, but 9/11 happened because we have our noses in the middle east where we don't need them and they shouldn't be. If the ME didn't have oil it would be Africa, the whole place could sink into the Ocean and the US wouldn't even blink. The ME doesn't hate us because of our beliefs, it's because we won't stay in our neighborhood. In this day and age if the US military mobilizes it's for an economic reason to further fill the pockets of the ultra rich guys running the country, not to spread Democracy and set up elected governments, give me a f---ing break. Yeah, we are in Iraq to spread freedom. Maybe we should spend the trillion dollars or so that the war cost to increase energy efficiency in our own country and get off of foreign oil. I don't think the US would care a whole lot about the ME if that were the case. But that can't happen and here is why. Because we are a bunch of ignorant lazy bastards not willing to make the sacrifices necessary to do that. We can't get away from our redneck, Hillbilly mentality, simple pleasure, instant gratification seeking ways. Lets drive 60 miles to work alone in a pickup truck that gets 10 miles a gallon. why do that? So I can feel like a man and put my deer hunting , and piss on Chevy stickers on the back, that's cool. Why do I drive 60 miles to work? Because I could afford a 4000 ft house out in the sticks for my family of 3. What does that take to heat and cool, little bit of juice needed for that. Then I need a bus to drive me and my oversized friends to the left turn only race, crush 400 brews, and escape the reality of my worthless life that deep down inside I am ashamed of. We can't push away from the gas pump any more than we can push away from the dinner table. We are the fattest, most gluttonous country in the world. We have become an country of soft, lard a$$ people living in the Glory years of our past. Our education system sucks, the same soft people can't take the fact that their kids didn't get straight A's so they pressure the schools into watering down academic standards so no real work needs to be done in order to succeed. Also if you are an average person as well as your wife, chances are little johnny isn't the next Tiger Woods, Einstein, or Mozart. Kids are like adults, a few winners and a whole lot of losers. Quit bragging about them. Improve yourself a little and quit living through them. College has become a business instead of place of learning, it's supposed to be hard, maybe everyone isn't supposed to go, Heaven forbid anything be challenging. Our government used to invest in the major centers of research, making us the leader in new technologies. That's not us anymore. Scientists are fleeing this country rapidly for better facilities in other countries. Take a look at the average people around, yourself included. Do you think this is what the people who built America looked like. I don't. We aren't the group of A$$ kickers that won WWII, no, you guys live in their glory to feel good about being Americans. We haven't done sh-t except squander what they built with blood and sweat. The rest of the world in catching up fast, we are in for one hell of an A$$ kicking. Get used to being China and India's bitch because that's the way it is heading. Keep living in the past by invoking the glory of the WWII vets.
Keep working yourself into the ground so you can buy an even bigger house and car and see how waisteful you can be. All while making yourself a slave to debt, don't change a thing you're doing great. Then when that buzz wears off buy something else to satisfy your retail addiction. Maybe we could show a little restraint and spend our efforts on becoming efficient. Increase energy research and technology so we can get off of foreign oil and away from the maniacs that have it. Mass transit might work, I bet that trillion we just spent in Iraq could have developed one hell of a subway in all of our cities. Quit being a hillbilly and drive a commuter car to work instead of a semi truck. Maybe mix in a few friends in the back seat as well. Live close to work so you can bike or walk. But all of this would take effort and sacrifice which we really aren't good at. We won't change, we will just bomb some brown people and steal it, heaven forbid use less. No, go drop bombs and get more. The second we all realize we are failing miserably and are becoming a joke of a nation we might have a chance of pulling out of this downward spiral we are in. We won't though, the rightwing W lovers will just chant USA, USA, USA into the ground.
That's my rant
W, Worst president ever!

Also if you get p-ssed over this thread chances are it because the shoe fits which isn't my fault. And quit quoting the history books, unless you also read the books written by the side that lost the war. Chances are they have a different opinion. Other opinions? I forgot those aren't really popular with the Ultra right wing religious conservatives. Same reason you think anyone non-christian is crazy right.

 

[JimNtexas]

Moonbat troll alert!

 

[pookie]

Salty Pirate,

Great points but i have to say that no matter what Bush does, there are neo-cons who will still support him. We had 911 coming because of our involvement in the ME. The sad thing is that many innocent people died? I say that we should try Bush in world court for atrocities against humanity just like how we should put Osama on trial. Bush and Osama are one...both will kill innocent people for their own cause. Do we care about the same innocent lives when we commit terrorism overseas? Is that any different? I enjoyed reading your posts. Keep up the good work.

 

[Soverytired]

Everyone Must See This Movie!!!

Saw it yesterday. I'd put it off for awhile . . . who goes to the movies to feel bad? Evenutally decided that if I can't join the military to do my bit (too old, sigh), at the very least I could bear witness to the courage of some of my fellow Americans.


I WAS SOBBING WHEN THIS MOVIE ENDED. It's that good.

GO SEE IT!

 

[J bar]

bump it

 

[Crash Pad]

This whole thread is hilarious. We have interest in the middle east because of one thing and one thing only, OIL, period, end of discussion. Kuwait war, stabilize the middle east so we can have our oil. We went back in because of 9/11, but 9/11 happened because we have our noses in the middle east where we don't need them and they shouldn't be. If the ME didn't have oil it would be Africa, the whole place could sink into the Ocean and the US wouldn't even blink. The ME doesn't hate us because of our beliefs, it's because we won't stay in our neighborhood. In this day and age if the US military mobilizes it's for an economic reason to further fill the pockets of the ultra rich guys running the country, not to spread Democracy and set up elected governments, give me a f---ing break. Yeah, we are in Iraq to spread freedom. Maybe we should spend the trillion dollars or so that the war cost to increase energy efficiency in our own country and get off of foreign oil. I don't think the US would care a whole lot about the ME if that were the case. But that can't happen and here is why. Because we are a bunch of ignorant lazy bastards not willing to make the sacrifices necessary to do that. We can't get away from our redneck, Hillbilly mentality, simple pleasure, instant gratification seeking ways. Lets drive 60 miles to work alone in a pickup truck that gets 10 miles a gallon. why do that? So I can feel like a man and put my deer hunting , and piss on Chevy stickers on the back, that's cool. Why do I drive 60 miles to work? Because I could afford a 4000 ft house out in the sticks for my family of 3. What does that take to heat and cool, little bit of juice needed for that. Then I need a bus to drive me and my oversized friends to the left turn only race, crush 400 brews, and escape the reality of my worthless life that deep down inside I am ashamed of. We can't push away from the gas pump any more than we can push away from the dinner table. We are the fattest, most gluttonous country in the world. We have become an country of soft, lard a$$ people living in the Glory years of our past. Our education system sucks, the same soft people can't take the fact that their kids didn't get straight A's so they pressure the schools into watering down academic standards so no real work needs to be done in order to succeed. Also if you are an average person as well as your wife, chances are little johnny isn't the next Tiger Woods, Einstein, or Mozart. Kids are like adults, a few winners and a whole lot of losers. Quit bragging about them. Improve yourself a little and quit living through them. College has become a business instead of place of learning, it's supposed to be hard, maybe everyone isn't supposed to go, Heaven forbid anything be challenging. Our government used to invest in the major centers of research, making us the leader in new technologies. That's not us anymore. Scientists are fleeing this country rapidly for better facilities in other countries. Take a look at the average people around, yourself included. Do you think this is what the people who built America looked like. I don't. We aren't the group of A$$ kickers that won WWII, no, you guys live in their glory to feel good about being Americans. We haven't done sh-t except squander what they built with blood and sweat. The rest of the world in catching up fast, we are in for one hell of an A$$ kicking. Get used to being China and India's bitch because that's the way it is heading. Keep living in the past by invoking the glory of the WWII vets.
Keep working yourself into the ground so you can buy an even bigger house and car and see how waisteful you can be. All while making yourself a slave to debt, don't change a thing you're doing great. Then when that buzz wears off buy something else to satisfy your retail addiction. Maybe we could show a little restraint and spend our efforts on becoming efficient. Increase energy research and technology so we can get off of foreign oil and away from the maniacs that have it. Mass transit might work, I bet that trillion we just spent in Iraq could have developed one hell of a subway in all of our cities. Quit being a hillbilly and drive a commuter car to work instead of a semi truck. Maybe mix in a few friends in the back seat as well. Live close to work so you can bike or walk. But all of this would take effort and sacrifice which we really aren't good at. We won't change, we will just bomb some brown people and steal it, heaven forbid use less. No, go drop bombs and get more. The second we all realize we are failing miserably and are becoming a joke of a nation we might have a chance of pulling out of this downward spiral we are in. We won't though, the rightwing W lovers will just chant USA, USA, USA into the ground.
That's my rant
W, Worst president ever!

Also if you get p-ssed over this thread chances are it because the shoe fits which isn't my fault. And quit quoting the history books, unless you also read the books written by the side that lost the war. Chances are they have a different opinion. Other opinions? I forgot those aren't really popular with the Ultra right wing religious conservatives. Same reason you think anyone non-christian is crazy right.

Wow somebody read The World is Flat. Don't worry Salty it's already over.

 

[paid4training]

About the first quoted paragraph:

Abuse of war prisioners......read some history you idiot, concentrate on US P.O.W.'s and their treatment under the Japanese and Vietnamese. The Japanese killed most of their P.O.W.s' In Vietnam torture was the order of the day...not the "standing naked on a box" type of torture either...the real peel your skin off type.

Nagasaki and Hiroshima? Well lets see here, either nuke them or lose 1,000,000 U.S. servicemen in the invasion of the mainland, the Japanese losses were expected to be 10,000,000 in both civilians and military......as it stands about 100,000 died in the two attacks........about 11,000,000 less than expected doing it conventionally. Considering that Japan, Italy, and Germany started a war that killed over 50 million people worldwide your apparant sympathy toward the folks of those countries during the early 40's says loads about your character. I bet you were one of those loonies that wanted to pay Japan repairations for the use of the a-bomb too huh?

Your second quoted line:

Since you do not care...there is a very good chance that your grandfather would have been killed in the invasion, or at least many of your family that were in service then(in WWII most families had 50% or so of the male family members serving). Also be sure to send a letter to all the 9/11 families and tell them that you do not care.......Current US actions in Iraq will be judged in turn(depends on the end result after U.S. troops have left), but as far as 9/11, remember that more US citizens were killed on that day than were killed on December 7 1941. You're comparison of military action then and now is laughable and an insult to all that died from 1939 to 1945 to make sure you did not grow up speaking german, doing the goosestep, killing POW's burning jewish people, and impailing Chinese babies on bayonets for sport. (All actions commited by the Nazi's and Imperial Japan during the war)

You don't actually think that a terrorist gives a crap what your political views are do you? You are an infidel to them, simply a lamb to be slaughtered.......

WWII was started because of an Oil embargo against Japan and Hitler was just looney. When is this world going to ge the message that oil and war seem to go together?