FlexPilots

[slowtation capt]

well perhaps "do nothing" was a poor choice words. How about an loa that let's you keep your planes to yourselves and we keep our planes for us. I know, it's a dream. Nevermind.

In regards to the 401k, why is there any language in the contract at all that allows the company to take it away? Did kr work in a loop hole and then use it?

It's no secret kr hates the union. I'm sure he blames everything he can on them. Plus i think he is using the flex pilots as a way to vote out the union. Why would he want to merge the lists and have an even bigger union?

bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[The Architect]

Not a Dream

Well perhaps "do nothing" was a poor choice words. How about an LOA that let's you keep your planes to yourselves and we keep our planes for us. I know, it's a dream. Nevermind.

In regards to the 401k, why is there any language in the contract at all that allows the company to take it away? Did KR work in a loop hole and then use it?

It's no secret KR hates the union. I'm sure he blames everything he can on them. Plus I think he is using the flex pilots as a way to vote out the union. Why would he want to merge the lists and have an even bigger union?

"How about an LOA that let's you keep your planes to yourselves and we keep our planes for us." That's not a dream. That's part of what is negotiated in a fence agreement.

Flight Options pilots negotiated a first agreement. The company and union negotiated the 401k provisions of the tentative agreement. Then, the company discontinued the 401k match. The union could not stop the discontinuance of the 401k match since an agreement was not ratified yet.

The company and union entered into the LOA to address the company's discontinuance of the 401k match without changing the 401k provisions of the tentative agreement.

 

[993_Pilot]

Yup I get that you guys felt you needed to unionize due to broken promises and all that. Had I been at options I bet I would have voted yes as well. But, none of that nasty stuff has happened at flex. Yet. You're asking us to vote pro union based on the belief that things will go massively downhill.

What we are asking is for you to consider KR's management history. Simple as that.

But why not give it a chance before we play the union card? The threat of a union is almost as good as having one....Over at flex things are fine. Personally I'd rather wait until something crazy happens, then I'll vote twice.

In certain circumstances, that would probably be a wise move. In the aviation world, if we lose representation and our contract, it would take a minimum of 5-6 years to get a union drive going and get another "First" contract. That is a long time to be subject to "something crazy".

...Since there is a chance we would lose pay, schedule, and benefits if we vote in the union then you have to agree it is riskier for us than it was/is for you.

Maybe not. You are making big assumptions before any fence agreements have been agreed to. Instead, why not get some flex pilots involved in helping to make sure your interests and concerns are addressed? I think you might be surprised at what happens, even without your input.

...KR has said we can keep what we have. Do I believe him? I really don't know. But why not give it a chance before we play the union card? The threat of a union is almost as good as having one.

Almost, but not quite.

...If things get nasty we will be the ones asking for a vote.

And then after at least a year to get a union voted in, the negotiation process starts all over again. Probably another 4 or more years of posturing and BS to get a contract that you could have from day one without all the hassle and wait.

...In regards to the 401k, why is there any language in the contract at all that allows the company to take it away? Did KR work in a loop hole and then use it?

We didn't have a contract then. That's what happens during the negotiation process, Management takes hostages and makes you negotiate to get them back. Sometimes it's a benefit like a 401k, sometimes it's people, and sometimes it's both, like they did to FLOPS. Do you really want to go through that again?

... I think he is using the flex pilots as a way to vote out the union. Why would he want to merge the lists and have an even bigger union?

I know it, he doesn't.

 

[slowtation capt]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TWA 2 ASA FO
The problem is you guys have a union. For everything one side gives there must be something taken in return.

As long as you guys have the 1108 he won't "give" you stuff. Even a good will gesture to the pilots won't get management anywhere with you. The union is a great wedge dividing your company. Until it goes away things won't get better.

Would the union "give" up all the crew bases you have for nothing in return. Of course not.

You guys live under a union, you should know how things work by now.


That is about the most asinine statement that I have ever heard.

...for the rest of us...what is "asinine" about it?

It's like saying that if I bring flowers home for my wife, I expect her to get down on her knees.

 

[wingsnthings]

Slow.... I am at a loss for words. You can't seriously believe the things you post on here.

 

[gret]

Slow.... I am at a loss for words. You can't seriously believe the things you post on here.

...or perhaps there are some articulation issues...I don't get what he is trying to say...and it is not a good thing to guess

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TWA 2 ASA FO
The problem is you guys have a union. For everything one side gives there must be something taken in return.

As long as you guys have the 1108 he won't "give" you stuff. Even a good will gesture to the pilots won't get management anywhere with you. The union is a great wedge dividing your company. Until it goes away things won't get better.

Would the union "give" up all the crew bases you have for nothing in return. Of course not.

You guys live under a union, you should know how things work by now.


That is about the most asinine statement that I have ever heard.



It's like saying that if I bring flowers home for my wife, I expect her to get down on her knees.

If you are comparing your marriage to the relationship between the 1108 and management, you need marriage counseling.

 

[gogetit]

All true, except 401k match is not only 100% match up to 6% of earnings; there is an additional 3% contribution from the company if you are employed for the full year.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Marriage counseling! I love it! Only problem is, once the bond of trust has been broken, a lot of work has to be done to try to restore it.

 

[chief9404]

All true, except 401k match is not only 100% match up to 6% of earnings; there is an additional 3% contribution from the company if you are employed for the full year.

That's nice. The guy that just took over Flex from Bombardier gives the entire Flops organization ( union and non-union ) a 0% match.