Flexjet Union Drive

Inigo Montoya

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The main IBT site is: http://ibt1108.org/

The Flexjet Message boards are at: http://forum3.ibt1108.org/

The authorization card is here: http://ibt1108.org/Docs/Pilot_Authorization_Card.pdf

Cards are only good for a year, so even if you have sent one in before you need to do so again. Print a bunch out, hand them out to other folks. Maybe even have some in stamped and addressed envelopes to make it easy

On a personal note, everyone is going to have their own reasons for a union but my big one is job security. A union would not prevent layoffs, but it would force the company look at other options first, like other cost cuts, voluntary furloughs, maybe early outs. The recent furloughs have some rather non-pilot friendly recall rights. Only 2 years, no bypass rights, and a limited window to accept recall.

And I also strongly believe that we can have a good union and also a good relationship with management. It works at NJ and it works at Southwest. I don't believe that we need to go out there and demand a ridiculous contract with NJ +5% pay or something. They are bigger than us so maybe they should have the highest pay. I'd just like something close. Mostly i think our top scales need to be improved. And our overtime pay is a joke.

And it is about time we get some better QOL and real rest rules. We dont need home basing, or even a hundred bases, but certainly we can do better than 5. And we can also come up with some rest rules that are not complicated. We dont need to have a strict "dont ever call me, I'm never going to answer the phone" policy, but I would at least feel better with rest rules that are written in an easy to understand format that have as little gray area as possible.

And dont even get me started on first day report times. They ask us to drive hours to get to another airport because of the cheaper airline ticket, yet none of that counts towards duty time. Its not right and its not safe

Overall I dont think that a lot needs to change. I'm happy here and I think it is a good company, but I think more pilot involvement and a good contract wiould make this a GREAT company. I dont want super high pay and unreasonable rest rules that would drive the company into the ground, I just want some job protection and involment in decisions that have an impact on my life

So lets get this going. This is probably our best ever shot at getting to a vote, since usually the company throws money at us when a vote gets close, but they just did that (small amount), so it wont be happening again for another year
 
Last edited:

brokeflyer

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b19 aint gonna like this......mmuuuhhhaaa

good luck guys, you deserve it.
 

Hung Start

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No, a union would not prevent a furlough. But, what a union would prevent is what Flex seems to put on everything that we sign:

"The company reserves the right to change this agreement at any time."
 

Necromonger

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YES
Road Show...

For those who went to the road show..

The company wants us to believe that we got a raise. They tell us that our pay has been adjusted to meet Industry standards.

I have to laugh. Here's why:
Last May they gave us pay sheets showing our our daily rates X 202 days worked for our yearly income.

This year, they wanted to show an increase. So, they put the new daily rate X 202 days...

Now, I don't know about you, but with this work reduction, who in the heck is gonna work 202days. Try 184 or 188.5 days. These are the real numbers. In the real word (looking at W2) we will make less. Why didn't they put this number of days in the equation?

So, STOP telling us that we will be making more this year than last year. It just AIN'T SO!!!

Just check the comp packet you will be getting in the mail. You'll see.

BTW... Send in your CARD!
 

warlord19

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Flexjet Union

Inigo, I remember your post of a year or so ago that you hadn’t decided on whether you wanted a union at FLEX. I see you’ve chosen sides. Your post of 4-26-09 is a very good post…reasonable, non-flaming, and easily read (ie correct spelling, etc). Oh, and also easily dismissed by reasonable people.
To address your points:
a)If you believe the company didn’t weigh EVERY option on the table, you are wrong. Lay-offs are the last option..WHY..it isn’t that management loves you, but rather it is the most expensive way to realign supply and demand. The decision to lay people off is not made easily.
b)Not sure what to say about your pay comment, other than I have good pay and benfits in our marketplace, and they will continue to be competitive in the future.
c)Our rest rules allow us to get plenty of rest and yet maintain some flexibility for changes in owner demand. And yes, I turn my phone off during rest.
d)Can’t say much about your driving hours to an airport to save money, ‘cause I haven’t experienced that .
e)Your best job protection is simply doing your best at work…the owners see that. Union contracts protecting job rights are mostly ephemeral…they go away in times like these.

I’m not trying to be a cheerleader for Bombardier or trying to change your mind(oh, maybe a little), but Bombardier is a good company to work for and have treated me right for many years. Is it perfect?? No, but it gets a little better every year. Some of it’s employees are unionized, and so management knows how to deal with unions. It’s not that big a deal if you vote in your union,its just that the “flavor” of personal relationships change, the “me vs. them” attitude sets in, and the UAW/Detroit syndrome is established.
I wish you the best.
 

GerryG

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Now this is funny, Flight Options has B19
Flexjet has warlord19

Transparent, but funny, the union avoidance functionaries are not even trying to hide the fact anymore.

More boilerplate anti union rhetoric.
 

EatSleepFly

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a)If you believe the company didn’t weigh EVERY option on the table, you are wrong. Lay-offs are the last option..WHY..it isn’t that management loves you, but rather it is the most expensive way to realign supply and demand. The decision to lay people off is not made easily.
Nearly all of the ideas that were suggested to mitigate furloughs were dismissed then and there for a reason that basically amounted to "just because." The message received ended up being that layoffs were the only option. I think a lot of people would be interested to know how they came to that conclusion.
 

Flyingdog1

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Was there some kind of early out thing offered to the older guys prior to furloughs?
 

FastJP4

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Was there some kind of early out thing offered to the older guys prior to furloughs?

Nope. Nothing. They did the exact opposite of what FG said they would do.
 

steelersrule74

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furloughs may not be very prudent financially (depending on the time away) but they are attractive to management for 2 simple reasons. There is an immediate costs savings in salary and it's really easy to do. Takes very little effort, one decision. No need to waste brain power, time and effort coming up with other options. kick'em out right away. Bottom line looks good for the next year and CEO gets a productivity bonus. THEN, just when things are starting to turn around - CEO takes the parachute and moves on somewhere else, leaving the new guy to deal with all the training costs, scheduling costs etc that deal with having to ramp back up.

Furloughs may be an option, but they should always be the last option. A company who doesn't take other steps first is taking the easy way out...
 

FalconPilot69

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Some

FalconPilot69

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Dog,

"Early outs are not in the Bombardier culture."

Change the freakin culture and show the pilots what "best in class" is. Oh yeah, Netjets already showed that with their package. My bad.

Was there some kind of early out thing offered to the older guys prior to furloughs?
 

Propilot77

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Dog,

"Early outs are not in the Bombardier culture."

Change the freakin culture and show the pilots what "best in class" is. Oh yeah, Netjets already showed that with their package. My bad.
I couldn't agree more...but we all know that will never happen.
 

Necromonger

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YES
Union?

It's time for a change in the Pilot's Group "Culture."

Send in your cards
 

FastJP4

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Management (FG) isn't going to change a thing (other than to continue to degrade your job), unless the pilot groups creates the need for them (FG) to change something for the positive.

Here's to hoping you guys and gals do something instead of sitting on your hands and taking it up the wazoo.

Flex has become the Fractional version of Mesa in an incredibly short period of time.
 

Dooker

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Inigo, I remember your post of a year or so ago that you hadn’t decided on whether you wanted a union at FLEX. I see you’ve chosen sides. Your post of 4-26-09 is a very good post…reasonable, non-flaming, and easily read (ie correct spelling, etc). Oh, and also easily dismissed by reasonable people.
To address your points:
a)If you believe the company didn’t weigh EVERY option on the table, you are wrong. Lay-offs are the last option..WHY..it isn’t that management loves you, but rather it is the most expensive way to realign supply and demand. The decision to lay people off is not made easily.
b)Not sure what to say about your pay comment, other than I have good pay and benfits in our marketplace, and they will continue to be competitive in the future.
c)Our rest rules allow us to get plenty of rest and yet maintain some flexibility for changes in owner demand. And yes, I turn my phone off during rest.
d)Can’t say much about your driving hours to an airport to save money, ‘cause I haven’t experienced that .
e)Your best job protection is simply doing your best at work…the owners see that. Union contracts protecting job rights are mostly ephemeral…they go away in times like these.

I’m not trying to be a cheerleader for Bombardier or trying to change your mind(oh, maybe a little), but Bombardier is a good company to work for and have treated me right for many years. Is it perfect?? No, but it gets a little better every year. Some of it’s employees are unionized, and so management knows how to deal with unions. It’s not that big a deal if you vote in your union,its just that the “flavor” of personal relationships change, the “me vs. them” attitude sets in, and the UAW/Detroit syndrome is established.
I wish you the best.
Glad to hear you got in at the right time, Warlord19, are are among the guys at this outfit who don't have to worry about getting LAID OFF (not furloughed) in a bummer economy, when the chance of landing even a ******************** flying job just to maintain currency is next to nil.

My biggest reason for wanting a union? Recall rights. I have a deep dread that if this job goes, I might have to say sayanora to aviation. Forever. I've got a family. I'm entrenched where I live. I can't just head off to India or Dubai or wherever the jobs are and continue aviating.

At least if we had even a bare-bones CBA, we could put our seniority numbers in our back pockets and go forth into the world of crappy non-flying jobs that awaits those of us clinging to the bottom of the list, find something in the interim to put food on the table and, once things turn around, make some graceful re-entry into the cockpit, rather than having to start from the bottom all over again.

Our time at this company would actually count for something, 'cos right now, it don't mean ********************.

Peace out.
 

ArtVandalay

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Fred Greed is living up to his reputation here thats for sure.
Too bad they are closing the SFO stock locker, I was out there the other day and enjoyed all the union fodder in there. It was hilarious. Hopefully we have enough croutons to vote it in this time.
 

FalconPilot69

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For those of us who are pro and con union.......

The union is coming....All we have to decide is which union orgainization to go with. We definetly don't have to go with the IBT1108. This bill, from what I understand, will allow us for an internal, Southwest Airlines type of union. Read about it boys and girls, because this bill will pass and we will vote in a union. My vote is for an internal one personally, but I can see the advantages of going with an IBT initially so that we can learn.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-1409
 

warlord19

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Dooker:
I don’t think an apology to you (or anyone) is due from people “who got in at the right time.” I arrived accidently having gone thru MULTIPLE “downsizing” from corporations during the ‘90’s. I know firsthand how our layed-off fellow pilots are feeling and reacting. The folks truly dedicated to flying will make their way back eventually, and the others will find new paths of work. Flex will recall them by seniority when demand returns. That’s how it works in ANY profession in a supply and demand economy. It’s Darwinian Laws at work, and it’s not easy to accept. If Bombardier had been mistreating or abusing the pilot group over the years, I assure you we would be “organized” by now. That is not the case, however, and is why I believe that historically there hasn’t been much sympathy for a union. Maybe that’s changing, I don’t know. Seems like “union fever” strikes every spring. If it’s voted in this year, big deal. I do know that until someone can make a reasonable and overwhelming case for a union, I’ll keep my dues money in the bank.
On a personal note, Dooker, I’ve always thought your postings here a little goofy (probably helped by your stage-name, picture, and quirky sense of humor(at least you have one)), but I appreciate that posting and hope you are able to remain at FLEX.
19
PS. I guess the pilot group will be “taking it up the wazoo” tomorrow when the bonus checks hit their bank accounts, but that must be some kind of union logic I don’t understand.
 

hammer2

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Dooker:
I don’t think an apology to you (or anyone) is due from people “who got in at the right time.” I arrived accidently having gone thru MULTIPLE “downsizing” from corporations during the ‘90’s. I know firsthand how our layed-off fellow pilots are feeling and reacting. The folks truly dedicated to flying will make their way back eventually, and the others will find new paths of work. Flex will recall them by seniority when demand returns. That’s how it works in ANY profession in a supply and demand economy. It’s Darwinian Laws at work, and it’s not easy to accept. If Bombardier had been mistreating or abusing the pilot group over the years, I assure you we would be “organized” by now. That is not the case, however, and is why I believe that historically there hasn’t been much sympathy for a union. Maybe that’s changing, I don’t know. Seems like “union fever” strikes every spring. If it’s voted in this year, big deal. I do know that until someone can make a reasonable and overwhelming case for a union, I’ll keep my dues money in the bank.
On a personal note, Dooker, I’ve always thought your postings here a little goofy (probably helped by your stage-name, picture, and quirky sense of humor(at least you have one)), but I appreciate that posting and hope you are able to remain at FLEX.
19
PS. I guess the pilot group will be “taking it up the wazoo” tomorrow when the bonus checks hit their bank accounts, but that must be some kind of union logic I don’t understand.
I feel like I'm reading a post from an acp on the bluebelly!
 
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