Flexjet Union Drive

[J3guy]

Posted by Warlord19
"PS. I guess the pilot group will be “taking it up the wazoo” tomorrow when the bonus checks hit their bank accounts, but that must be some kind of union logic I don’t understand."[/quote]



Yippee, i get 750 bucks after taxes, and i'm on 3rd yr pay. All that hard work flying smartly saving gas. Here's the problem. The bonus is considered total compensation. It is one of the things included that supposedly makes us competitive with our peers. In MHO, if the company valued how hard we work to save them money, the bonus would reflect that. End of rant.

 

[dime line]

The union is coming....All we have to decide is which union orgainization to go with. We definetly don't have to go with the IBT1108. This bill, from what I understand, will allow us for an internal, Southwest Airlines type of union. Read about it boys and girls, because this bill will pass and we will vote in a union. My vote is for an internal one personally, but I can see the advantages of going with an IBT initially so that we can learn.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-1409

All sounds good, BUT, if you go with a in-house deal, you have to start with a lot of money, A lot of money.
It becomes a "who has more money fight". The company will fight this till they have no more money (FLOPS, hired Ford and Harrison, how much do you think they are worth)
Remember a union is a business, nothing more, if you start with nothing your gonna end up bankrupt. You need every dime of dues, how many at FLEX are anti union? All said and done that pilot has to write that check, put in envelope and stamp it. How will you make them do that. There lies your problem. (same problem over here at FLOPS), but at least there is a bank account. (Thanks NJ's)
Good Luck, its been a long road at FLOPS, and its still not over. Your fun is just about to begin.

 

[FalconPilot69]

The company won't have much of a fight...

The gest of the bill is that once a union is voted in, the standard 50% plus 1, both sides have exactly 90 days to come up with a contract. If after 90 days they do not have an agreement, the governement sends in an arbitrator and a contract will be in place 45 days after that. No more of this 3 plus years bull crap. This first contract will be for 2 years. That is why the money side of it is not as big of an issue, with the exception of an attorney to help with the legal ease of the first contract.

From what I understand, it has congressional support of more than 80 % which means it should pass.

 

[FalconPilot69]

Sorry J3, but that is more than our 85 will be seeing here in the next month. Be thankful what you do have.

Yippee, i get 750 bucks after taxes, and i'm on 3rd yr pay. All that hard work flying smartly saving gas. Here's the problem. The bonus is considered total compensation. It is one of the things included that supposedly makes us competitive with our peers. In MHO, if the company valued how hard we work to save them money, the bonus would reflect that. End of rant.

 

[dime line]

The gest of the bill is that once a union is voted in, the standard 50% plus 1, both sides have exactly 90 days to come up with a contract. If after 90 days they do not have an agreement, the governement sends in an arbitrator and a contract will be in place 45 days after that. No more of this 3 plus years bull crap. This first contract will be for 2 years. That is why the money side of it is not as big of an issue, with the exception of an attorney to help with the legal ease of the first contract.

From what I understand, it has congressional support of more than 80 % which means it should pass.

WOW that is nice

 

[jonjuan]

The gest of the bill is that once a union is voted in, the standard 50% plus 1, both sides have exactly 90 days to come up with a contract. If after 90 days they do not have an agreement, the governement sends in an arbitrator and a contract will be in place 45 days after that. No more of this 3 plus years bull crap.

I'll bet the company would love an arbitrator during these economic times. They are slashing and burning jobs on the inside as no new owners sho up and many are leaving for good-they can't wait to show how poor they are.

 

[cougar12]

The gest of the bill is that once a union is voted in, the standard 50% plus 1, both sides have exactly 90 days to come up with a contract. If after 90 days they do not have an agreement, the governement sends in an arbitrator and a contract will be in place 45 days after that. No more of this 3 plus years bull crap. This first contract will be for 2 years. That is why the money side of it is not as big of an issue, with the exception of an attorney to help with the legal ease of the first contract.

From what I understand, it has congressional support of more than 80 % which means it should pass.

I think you will be very disappointed. YOU will be negotiating under a Transportation Act if I remember correctly it is the National Transportation and Railway Labor Act. Not this new Labor bill designed for food and service workers.

 

[FalconPilot69]

I just re-read the bill, and no where does it state that it is designed for food and service workers. In fact, it clearly states that it is for "any individual or group of workers wishing to organizie."

As far as the we are poor issue, while I agree with you in the fact that we are losing owners like all of the fractionals, most of us are not bitter with the company as a whole. Just like Netjets in their contract battle of a couple of years ago, Flexjet funds things for Bombardier that would raise our bottom line significantly. Plus, you can't tell me we would not get better pricing on training and so forth. But, the only way we will get more bases, true protection and better QOL issues will require us to do this. That is all that I am saying. We have all seen how the new management thinks and it is not very pilot friendly.

I think you will be very disappointed. YOU will be negotiating under a Transportation Act if I remember correctly it is the National Transportation and Railway Labor Act. Not this new Labor bill designed for food and service workers.

 

[jonjuan]

Just like Netjets in their contract battle of a couple of years ago, Flexjet funds things for Bombardier that would raise our bottom line significantly

Huh? The glory days were years ago when bonuses flowed freely and thousands didn't mind throwing down hundreds of thousands just to "join the club" and tell their friends that their provider proudly (and expensively) paid for horse races, orange bowls, and super bowls.
How exactly does flex fund things for bombardier?

 

[gunfyter]

This bill does not apply to RLA companies.

Union busting firms are advising managements to seek RLA coverage when possible....

The union is coming....All we have to decide is which union orgainization to go with. ...

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-1409

H. R. 1409​

To amend the National Labor Relations Act [NRLA] to establish an efficient system to enable employees to form, join, or assist labor organizations, to provide for mandatory injunctions for unfair labor practices during organizing efforts, and for other purposes.

​

The bill only applies to NLRA covered labor ... NOT RLA Labor. The Railway Labor Act = (RLA)

 

[shanes123]

The key is strong leadership, IBT had it with netjets and they had it for a while with Flops. The leadership with netjets has remained strong even though they changed unions. The leadership with FLOPS couldnt be weaker and management knows it.. Thats why theres no contract. Vote in a strong MEC and you will succeed. Sorry Flops pilots but you guys have been sold up the river..

 

[dime line]

The key is strong leadership, IBT had it with netjets and they had it for a while with Flops. The leadership with netjets has remained strong even though they changed unions. The leadership with FLOPS couldnt be weaker and management knows it.. Thats why theres no contract. Vote in a strong MEC and you will succeed. Sorry Flops pilots but you guys have been sold up the river..

Sorry dude, but it takes a lot, lot more than the MEC to get a contract. Nobody has been sold anywhere yet. Sounds like you and B19 are compairing notes.

 

[Pacific]

Let's look at the latest:

-No meals while on standby
-Phone reimbursement reduced
-85 furloughs
-The most ridiculous convoluted rest rules I've ever read
-a 12.5% decrease in annual pay (2 less guaranteed days) followed by a 4% increase in the daily rate equalling an 8.5% decrease in annual gross pay, followed by an announcement that we are now equal to the industry average
-downgrades to FO but now keeping them qualified as CAs so they can use them as needed. Are they being paid as CAs while in training since they have to take the check ride from the left seat and have to be signed off as CAs ? Why ever make anyone a CA again if they can just make everyone CAFOs and then just pay as CA when assigned the left seat? (paranoid I know)
-Global rumors again and people falling all over themselves to be the first to be assigned to the Global. Don't they want to at least know the pay rate first or do they just want to take whatever it is since it's a Global...tough to push for a fair rate with so many eager beavers!

I know, I know...I should just feel lucky to have a job and have no problem with whatever they do. It is a good job, I just hope it stays that way.

 

[doh]

I have a question. It is my understanding that when the union comes on the property each person has a one time right to either join or not. What happens if the top 100 opt out? That would be about 25% not paying dues or participating. What then?

 

[gutshotdraw]

Assuming Flex would be an agency shop as is NJASAP, if the vote is held and 50% + 1 vote for union representation, you can join the union and pay dues or refuse to join the union and pay roughly the same amount in "agency fees." The union will have funding from all pilots regardless. The union will be acting as the bargaining agent for all pilots, members or not.

This is exactly the issue NJI pilots will be facing in, oh, about 19 months.

 

[doh]

At Comair we had about a dozen pilots who were on property before the union got voted in. They did not join and they did not have to pay any fees. Comair is an agency shop. So that is why I don't think you have to sign up. I believe it is a one time decision.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Where is BeeDubya when you need him...........

 

[BeeDubya]

At Comair we had about a dozen pilots who were on property before the union got voted in. They did not join and they did not have to pay any fees. Comair is an agency shop. So that is why I don't think you have to sign up. I believe it is a one time decision.

I am aware of this situation at Comair. I am guessing that this arragement was made between the Union and the company in the negotiations of their first agency shop agreement. The Railway Labor Act (which governs multi-state common carriers by air, as well), does not have any so-called "right-to-work" provisions as many state laws do. The federal RLA preempts any state laws to the contrary and allows the parties (company and Union) to negotiate their individual provisions. Most that I am aware of agree on an "agency shop," as NetJets/NJASAP have done, and as Comair/ALPA have done. In that process, they may elect certain exclusions, as Comair did, but it is not a certainty.

One of the reasons that RLA Unions prefer agency shops to open shops is that we are legally required to provide "fair representation" to all members of the "class and craft" we represent. Because there is a cost to that, even if an idividual elects to not become a member, we have a duty to represent his interests, which may include costly arbitrations in some cases. Hence, it seem fair to charge some fee for that (fee payers, by law, are only required to pay for services related to representation and contract administration).

NJ/NJASAP pilots have the option to be fee payers, rather than Union members. Obviously, when NJI pilots become members of the "craft and class" they will have the same options. Those who make that election will be represented by NJASAP, but will not enjoy the benefits of membership (ie, cannot hold Union office).

Hope this helps,
Brian

 

[doh]

BeeDub, You are the man.:beer:

 

[ArtVandalay]

The guys on the BB jizzing over the Global talk is absolutely making me throw-up every time I read it. Yes we will probably get Globals in the near future but, all the guys on there opening their mouths for company kool-aid is hilarious since none of them have the seniority to be in it and won't have it for a LONG TIME. The hint of the company getting Globals is just another way for them to make us talk about something other than the union.