Flexjet Union Drive

[Dooker]

Inigo, I remember your post of a year or so ago that you hadn’t decided on whether you wanted a union at FLEX. I see you’ve chosen sides. Your post of 4-26-09 is a very good post…reasonable, non-flaming, and easily read (ie correct spelling, etc). Oh, and also easily dismissed by reasonable people.
To address your points:
a)If you believe the company didn’t weigh EVERY option on the table, you are wrong. Lay-offs are the last option..WHY..it isn’t that management loves you, but rather it is the most expensive way to realign supply and demand. The decision to lay people off is not made easily.
b)Not sure what to say about your pay comment, other than I have good pay and benfits in our marketplace, and they will continue to be competitive in the future.
c)Our rest rules allow us to get plenty of rest and yet maintain some flexibility for changes in owner demand. And yes, I turn my phone off during rest.
d)Can’t say much about your driving hours to an airport to save money, ‘cause I haven’t experienced that .
e)Your best job protection is simply doing your best at work…the owners see that. Union contracts protecting job rights are mostly ephemeral…they go away in times like these.

I’m not trying to be a cheerleader for Bombardier or trying to change your mind(oh, maybe a little), but Bombardier is a good company to work for and have treated me right for many years. Is it perfect?? No, but it gets a little better every year. Some of it’s employees are unionized, and so management knows how to deal with unions. It’s not that big a deal if you vote in your union,its just that the “flavor” of personal relationships change, the “me vs. them” attitude sets in, and the UAW/Detroit syndrome is established.
I wish you the best.

Glad to hear you got in at the right time, Warlord19, are are among the guys at this outfit who don't have to worry about getting LAID OFF (not furloughed) in a bummer economy, when the chance of landing even a ******************** flying job just to maintain currency is next to nil.

My biggest reason for wanting a union? Recall rights. I have a deep dread that if this job goes, I might have to say sayanora to aviation. Forever. I've got a family. I'm entrenched where I live. I can't just head off to India or Dubai or wherever the jobs are and continue aviating.

At least if we had even a bare-bones CBA, we could put our seniority numbers in our back pockets and go forth into the world of crappy non-flying jobs that awaits those of us clinging to the bottom of the list, find something in the interim to put food on the table and, once things turn around, make some graceful re-entry into the cockpit, rather than having to start from the bottom all over again.

Our time at this company would actually count for something, 'cos right now, it don't mean ********************.

Peace out.

 

[ArtVandalay]

Fred Greed is living up to his reputation here thats for sure.
Too bad they are closing the SFO stock locker, I was out there the other day and enjoyed all the union fodder in there. It was hilarious. Hopefully we have enough croutons to vote it in this time.

 

[FalconPilot69]

For those of us who are pro and con union.......

The union is coming....All we have to decide is which union orgainization to go with. We definetly don't have to go with the IBT1108. This bill, from what I understand, will allow us for an internal, Southwest Airlines type of union. Read about it boys and girls, because this bill will pass and we will vote in a union. My vote is for an internal one personally, but I can see the advantages of going with an IBT initially so that we can learn.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-1409

 

[warlord19]

Dooker:
I don’t think an apology to you (or anyone) is due from people “who got in at the right time.” I arrived accidently having gone thru MULTIPLE “downsizing” from corporations during the ‘90’s. I know firsthand how our layed-off fellow pilots are feeling and reacting. The folks truly dedicated to flying will make their way back eventually, and the others will find new paths of work. Flex will recall them by seniority when demand returns. That’s how it works in ANY profession in a supply and demand economy. It’s Darwinian Laws at work, and it’s not easy to accept. If Bombardier had been mistreating or abusing the pilot group over the years, I assure you we would be “organized” by now. That is not the case, however, and is why I believe that historically there hasn’t been much sympathy for a union. Maybe that’s changing, I don’t know. Seems like “union fever” strikes every spring. If it’s voted in this year, big deal. I do know that until someone can make a reasonable and overwhelming case for a union, I’ll keep my dues money in the bank.
On a personal note, Dooker, I’ve always thought your postings here a little goofy (probably helped by your stage-name, picture, and quirky sense of humor(at least you have one)), but I appreciate that posting and hope you are able to remain at FLEX.
19
PS. I guess the pilot group will be “taking it up the wazoo” tomorrow when the bonus checks hit their bank accounts, but that must be some kind of union logic I don’t understand.

 

[hammer2]

Dooker:
I don’t think an apology to you (or anyone) is due from people “who got in at the right time.” I arrived accidently having gone thru MULTIPLE “downsizing” from corporations during the ‘90’s. I know firsthand how our layed-off fellow pilots are feeling and reacting. The folks truly dedicated to flying will make their way back eventually, and the others will find new paths of work. Flex will recall them by seniority when demand returns. That’s how it works in ANY profession in a supply and demand economy. It’s Darwinian Laws at work, and it’s not easy to accept. If Bombardier had been mistreating or abusing the pilot group over the years, I assure you we would be “organized” by now. That is not the case, however, and is why I believe that historically there hasn’t been much sympathy for a union. Maybe that’s changing, I don’t know. Seems like “union fever” strikes every spring. If it’s voted in this year, big deal. I do know that until someone can make a reasonable and overwhelming case for a union, I’ll keep my dues money in the bank.
On a personal note, Dooker, I’ve always thought your postings here a little goofy (probably helped by your stage-name, picture, and quirky sense of humor(at least you have one)), but I appreciate that posting and hope you are able to remain at FLEX.
19
PS. I guess the pilot group will be “taking it up the wazoo” tomorrow when the bonus checks hit their bank accounts, but that must be some kind of union logic I don’t understand.

I feel like I'm reading a post from an acp on the bluebelly!

 

[J3guy]

Posted by Warlord19
"PS. I guess the pilot group will be “taking it up the wazoo” tomorrow when the bonus checks hit their bank accounts, but that must be some kind of union logic I don’t understand."[/quote]



Yippee, i get 750 bucks after taxes, and i'm on 3rd yr pay. All that hard work flying smartly saving gas. Here's the problem. The bonus is considered total compensation. It is one of the things included that supposedly makes us competitive with our peers. In MHO, if the company valued how hard we work to save them money, the bonus would reflect that. End of rant.

 

[dime line]

The union is coming....All we have to decide is which union orgainization to go with. We definetly don't have to go with the IBT1108. This bill, from what I understand, will allow us for an internal, Southwest Airlines type of union. Read about it boys and girls, because this bill will pass and we will vote in a union. My vote is for an internal one personally, but I can see the advantages of going with an IBT initially so that we can learn.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-1409

All sounds good, BUT, if you go with a in-house deal, you have to start with a lot of money, A lot of money.
It becomes a "who has more money fight". The company will fight this till they have no more money (FLOPS, hired Ford and Harrison, how much do you think they are worth)
Remember a union is a business, nothing more, if you start with nothing your gonna end up bankrupt. You need every dime of dues, how many at FLEX are anti union? All said and done that pilot has to write that check, put in envelope and stamp it. How will you make them do that. There lies your problem. (same problem over here at FLOPS), but at least there is a bank account. (Thanks NJ's)
Good Luck, its been a long road at FLOPS, and its still not over. Your fun is just about to begin.

 

[FalconPilot69]

The company won't have much of a fight...

The gest of the bill is that once a union is voted in, the standard 50% plus 1, both sides have exactly 90 days to come up with a contract. If after 90 days they do not have an agreement, the governement sends in an arbitrator and a contract will be in place 45 days after that. No more of this 3 plus years bull crap. This first contract will be for 2 years. That is why the money side of it is not as big of an issue, with the exception of an attorney to help with the legal ease of the first contract.

From what I understand, it has congressional support of more than 80 % which means it should pass.

 

[FalconPilot69]

Sorry J3, but that is more than our 85 will be seeing here in the next month. Be thankful what you do have.

Yippee, i get 750 bucks after taxes, and i'm on 3rd yr pay. All that hard work flying smartly saving gas. Here's the problem. The bonus is considered total compensation. It is one of the things included that supposedly makes us competitive with our peers. In MHO, if the company valued how hard we work to save them money, the bonus would reflect that. End of rant.

 

[dime line]

The gest of the bill is that once a union is voted in, the standard 50% plus 1, both sides have exactly 90 days to come up with a contract. If after 90 days they do not have an agreement, the governement sends in an arbitrator and a contract will be in place 45 days after that. No more of this 3 plus years bull crap. This first contract will be for 2 years. That is why the money side of it is not as big of an issue, with the exception of an attorney to help with the legal ease of the first contract.

From what I understand, it has congressional support of more than 80 % which means it should pass.

WOW that is nice

 

[jonjuan]

The gest of the bill is that once a union is voted in, the standard 50% plus 1, both sides have exactly 90 days to come up with a contract. If after 90 days they do not have an agreement, the governement sends in an arbitrator and a contract will be in place 45 days after that. No more of this 3 plus years bull crap.

I'll bet the company would love an arbitrator during these economic times. They are slashing and burning jobs on the inside as no new owners sho up and many are leaving for good-they can't wait to show how poor they are.

 

[cougar12]

The gest of the bill is that once a union is voted in, the standard 50% plus 1, both sides have exactly 90 days to come up with a contract. If after 90 days they do not have an agreement, the governement sends in an arbitrator and a contract will be in place 45 days after that. No more of this 3 plus years bull crap. This first contract will be for 2 years. That is why the money side of it is not as big of an issue, with the exception of an attorney to help with the legal ease of the first contract.

From what I understand, it has congressional support of more than 80 % which means it should pass.

I think you will be very disappointed. YOU will be negotiating under a Transportation Act if I remember correctly it is the National Transportation and Railway Labor Act. Not this new Labor bill designed for food and service workers.

 

[FalconPilot69]

I just re-read the bill, and no where does it state that it is designed for food and service workers. In fact, it clearly states that it is for "any individual or group of workers wishing to organizie."

As far as the we are poor issue, while I agree with you in the fact that we are losing owners like all of the fractionals, most of us are not bitter with the company as a whole. Just like Netjets in their contract battle of a couple of years ago, Flexjet funds things for Bombardier that would raise our bottom line significantly. Plus, you can't tell me we would not get better pricing on training and so forth. But, the only way we will get more bases, true protection and better QOL issues will require us to do this. That is all that I am saying. We have all seen how the new management thinks and it is not very pilot friendly.

I think you will be very disappointed. YOU will be negotiating under a Transportation Act if I remember correctly it is the National Transportation and Railway Labor Act. Not this new Labor bill designed for food and service workers.

 

[jonjuan]

Just like Netjets in their contract battle of a couple of years ago, Flexjet funds things for Bombardier that would raise our bottom line significantly

Huh? The glory days were years ago when bonuses flowed freely and thousands didn't mind throwing down hundreds of thousands just to "join the club" and tell their friends that their provider proudly (and expensively) paid for horse races, orange bowls, and super bowls.
How exactly does flex fund things for bombardier?

 

[gunfyter]

This bill does not apply to RLA companies.

Union busting firms are advising managements to seek RLA coverage when possible....

The union is coming....All we have to decide is which union orgainization to go with. ...

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-1409

H. R. 1409​

To amend the National Labor Relations Act [NRLA] to establish an efficient system to enable employees to form, join, or assist labor organizations, to provide for mandatory injunctions for unfair labor practices during organizing efforts, and for other purposes.

​

The bill only applies to NLRA covered labor ... NOT RLA Labor. The Railway Labor Act = (RLA)