Flexjet question

[haulingthemail]

nicely said! Walsh. Someone always gotta HJ someone elses thread. I think the comment goes something like: "Misery loves Misery" They aren't happy so they try to bring everyone else to their level.

 

[Club ORD FO]

Walsh, you have got to admit that the pay, benefits, and QOL are severely better at NJ. A lot, if not most, of what he mentioned is their current stuff and is not in the TA.

I do think we have a better product here at flex (have heard if from owners same as you have), but come on, shouldn't we also get paid like it? And I've never met a NJ pilot on the road with a bad attitude. Have you? I've shared sedans to FBO's, asked for bottles of water when we ran out with no stock lock in sight, and been offered their left over catering when our crew meals looked like poison. Every flex guy I have talked to that left here for there likes it just as much if not better.

I do like it here at flex, but we do have lower than average pay and QOL. Anybody looking to get a job will look at that stuff first and foremost. seriously walsh, if you were looking for a job right now, would you apply to a lower paying company first? Better attitudes and planes can only count for so much.

 

[imacdog]

- He won't start his first day until 8 am at NJA. 6 am at Flex.

Just a quick clarification, we do have early starts on our first days at NJA; I've had several 4:00am starts. However, if we do start before 8:00am, we get overtime pay for those hours before 8:00am and overtime for duty periods more than 9 hours in length. For example, if you start at 5:00am and finish at 4:00pm on your first day, you would get 5 hours of overtime pay for that day worked. That just applies to the first day on duty, not the rest of the tour.

 

[Flyingdog1]

No I am not a self appointed moderator, but why is a question asked about Flexjet always get hijacked buy some idiot talking about nj?

And why would someone want to work here instead of there, because of your attitudes first, and second because even your owners like us better (thats first hand comments from your owners that have flown on my plane.)

Now everything you listed only happens if your TA passes, but we will see if that happens. Its a shame you have to sell out retirement for the new guys, but hey your young what do you care (right now)

Walsh,

You're WAY off base.

I work at Flex. I've asked the same question to RH, with no good answer. Why would someone work at Flex instead of NJ? Because an owner will like me better in a blue tie better than a gold one. I don't think so. Applicants come here ( now), because they can't get on with NJ. Fewer and fewer applicants will be current in a jet, and or, never been typed in jet. Or, never have flown a jet. You don't have to believe me. Just ask the next guy you see doing OE what his background is. That's not a horrible thing, but when you upgrade and your "B" FO flys you from TEB to JFK to do a pickup this winter, let us know how that goes.

I wish no ill will to you, Flex or NJ. We are all out there doing the exact same job. My only wish is that Bombardier steps up to the plate.

 

[can99]

As I started this thread let me interject:

I personally applied and hoped to get a interview at Flexjet (applied just last weekend...hoping for a interview call one day!)..

I work for a company owned by NJA, actually 80% of NJA and NJI pilots dont realize their company has another company operating jets in the 135 world, and has been doing it for many many years, and a long time before NJA was invented!

I sit in FBO's and listen... here is my observations from the last 3 years of Corporate flying:

NJA pilots whine and whine and whine! The are constantly bitching about the union / TA / Pay / Conditions / Scheduling / Crew food ... I am YET to find a happy NJA pilot.

I have even overheard a NJA pilot at a FBO talking to a owner and telling them how they are underpaid and work far too many hours duty! He even mentioned his current pay rate to the owner.

Flex pilots on the other hand do bitch, but its different you guys bitch about pilots you fly with, trips you do... its normal bitching and in most cases its fun! I have never heard a Flex pilot complain about their plane, their crew food, their pay at a FBO!

As a group I see the Flex pilots a fair bit happier than the NJA pilots.

I have also never seen as many micromanaging Captains as I have seen with NJA... does NJA attract this sort of person ? I would hate to spend a 7 day trip with one of these demi-gods of aviation.


Now sure NJA is getting a pay rise, but is it worth it? Do you guys really like your jobs? I see many negative people at NJA...I hate negative a-holes personally, and would hate to be around your 24/7 bitchen !

But thats me

And wow 100+ NJA bases, thats great, I am happy for you. But Flex offers the bases that I would be happy with, sure its not Columbus Ohio...or somewhere really expensive to live in California but hey I can live with it.

Again its personal choice

I have 2 friends in NJA, both arrived with the biggest planes they had flown being PA44's, and both admit to being scared and scary to fly with for that first 50hrs+ ,I would hate to be a pax on those flights! I also met a NJA pilot who was into their 6th month of IOE and still employed!!(I know its not called that but I cant remember what NJA call it) We have all been there and done that, I am glad I fly with a great guy who remembered what it was like having your first jet job and scaring the ********************e out of you, the Captain, the air traffic controller and your pax! It was fun though ! But I digress...

So what am I saying... I dont really know now. But as a personal choice I would take Flex first...for the QOL (my personal version of QOL is got to do with where I live) and the general pilot group I have come in contract with. There are many other reasons but they are of personal choice. Personally I would rather work for the smaller company with the happier pilots than the overpaid whiners in a big company.... Of course I am using the assumption here I get a call for a interview and fit the profile of the person they want and get a Flex job!! But hey if not, I know when my current ride is sold next year I have been told that I can get a step up the ladder into NJA due to the fact I am already working for a NJA company.

 

[imacdog]

Do you guys really like your jobs?

Best job in aviation.

 

[300pilot]

Well said Can99.... yes, lots of negative NJ guys, lots on shuttles to the FBO b..tching about their contracts... shut up already guys!! With them it's the pilots and union against management. That's not how it should be... all on the same team and paying your salary. Lots of unprofessional and inexperienced NJ guys... just go to an uncontrolled field and listen to them try to get a clearance from an RCO?? Flex is not the highest paid frax out there, but you will fly a superior product with a much more fun group to work with.

 

[can99]

Actually now you think about it the Radio calls from the Exec jet fleet are funny, just last week on the way to the middle of nowhere Idaho we were empty bumping along in light chop, with a Execjet sitting right behind us, it was light turbulence but little pockets of it... the guy in Execjet asks for turbulence reports in front, he got it from us, then informs the controller 'he' needs a immediate climb or descent for turbulence and he said 'This turbulence is a little unnerving we need to get out of it ASAP' !

Another guy a month ago over Denver asks center for some sports scores...the controller asked which game, he replies 'Any thing to do with sport.. I am bored' WTF! Needless to say the controller was speechless and quickly handed the Execjet off to the next sector.

So Execjet pilots are good for something...making us laugh!

 

[gunfyter]

NJA was invented in 1964 under the name EJA. When was American Air Services (renamed EJM after EJ bought it in 1984) invented? Answer: 1977

Best wishes at FlexJets.

 

[hammer2]

Actually now you think about it the Radio calls from the Exec jet fleet are funny, just last week on the way to the middle of nowhere Idaho we were empty bumping along in light chop, with a Execjet sitting right behind us, it was light turbulence but little pockets of it... the guy in Execjet asks for turbulence reports in front, he got it from us, then informs the controller 'he' needs a immediate climb or descent for turbulence and he said 'This turbulence is a little unnerving we need to get out of it ASAP' !

Another guy a month ago over Denver asks center for some sports scores...the controller asked which game, he replies 'Any thing to do with sport.. I am bored' WTF! Needless to say the controller was speechless and quickly handed the Execjet off to the next sector.

So Execjet pilots are good for something...making us laugh!

So the interview at Netjets didn't go that well, huh?

 

[can99]

From the time line at the EJM website am trying to figure out who came first, has anyone been told the real story?

The 2 companies seem to be mixed up in the early years....

not that it matters.

1964 Founded by General O.F. "Dick" Lassiter, Executive Jet Airways is incorporated as the civilian version of the U.S. Air Force's Special Air Missions Squadron, devised to transport civilians. The original Board includes General Curtis LeMay, M.J. Rathbone, and actors Jimmy Stewart and Arthur Godfrey.

1965 The company changes its name to Executive Jet Aviation. Executive Jet Aviation trains the FAA on how to administer check rides in business jets.

1977 American Air Services, an aircraft charter and management services company, is founded under the direction of Joseph Moeggenberg.

1983 Executive Jet Aviation surpasses 80-million mile mark in passenger service, representing more than 175,000 flights.

1984 American Air Services consolidates its operations at Lunken Airport in Cincinnati. Executive Jet Aviation is purchased as a wholly owned subsidiary by RTS Capital Services, Inc., which is owned by Richard T. Santulli, a former Goldman Sachs principal.

1986 The NetJets fractional ownership concept is introduced at the National Business Aviation Association -- business aviation's annual business show.

1987 Executive Jet launches its revolutionary NetJets fractional aircraft ownership program with the purchase of eight new Cessna Citation S/IIs.

1988 American Air Services is acquired by RTS Capital Services, Inc. and is brought under the Executive Jet Aviation umbrella with the name Executive Jet Management, Inc.

1991 Executive Jet Management is awarded a contract from the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston and expands into the cargo market with eight Learjets (LR/35/35A).

1998 Berkshire Hathaway purchases Executive Jet, Inc., since renamed NetJets Inc., 3 1/2 years after world-renowned financier Warren Buffett buys his first NetJets share. Mr. Santulli, and Mr. Buffett attend National Business Aviation Association's annual convention and announce the purchase of 161 new business jets, an order that was valued at over $3 billion.

2000 Albert C. Pod is appointed President and CEO of Executive Jet Management. Executive Jet Management breaks ground for its new, expanded headquarters at Cincinnati's Lunken Airport.

blah blah blah

 

[gunfyter]

No mix up


1977

American Air Services = EJM

 

[CA1900]

I am YET to find a happy NJA pilot.

Look for me on the road, then. I'm as happy as can be. I understand what you're saying about people who are negative all the time. Truly, I haven't yet flown with anyone who fits that description in a year of working here. Drives me nuts, too, so believe me, I'd notice.

I have also never seen as many micromanaging Captains as I have seen with NJA... does NJA attract this sort of person ? I would hate to spend a 7 day trip with one of these demi-gods of aviation.

Me too. I haven't run into one yet, fortunately.

 

[CA1900]

Lots of unprofessional and inexperienced NJ guys... just go to an uncontrolled field and listen to them try to get a clearance from an RCO??

Ha!

At my last job, waiting to depart out of Saranac Lake, NY, I had to walk over to a FlexJet airplane and ask him to close his flight plan so we could leave.

"They aren't answering," he said.

"You have to listen over the SLK VOR. They're answering me, and telling me that they're waiting for you to cancel."

"What do you mean, 'Listen over the VOR'?"


I kid you not. Fortunately, these are isolated incidents at Flex, just as they are here. I certainly wouldn't go running to Flightinfo to post about how "Flex guys don't know what the 'R' means next to the RCO frequency," because that'd be stupid...

Plenty of us at NJA have a strong background of flying out of uncontrolled airports, and known the in-and-outs of it very well.

Lockheed Martin is certainly throwing a wrench into that, though, that's for sure.

Flex is not the highest paid frax out there, but you will fly a superior product with a much more fun group to work with.

Just have to agree to disagree here. We're a lot of fun.

 

[snoopy14]

NJA pilot average 7000+ flight time and seem happy to me. Pride is a sin and often misunderstood.

Good luck Flex

 

[DirtyBeech]

CA1900,

can't be any worse than the numbnut at Teterboro who asked what color the North and West departures were since the South departures kept being referred to as the White departures. Another pilot finally piped in and explained that White was an intersection on the departure. It wasn't a Flex guy though as we were the only ones waiting in line at the time.

 

[bailey3083]

CA1900,

can't be any worse than the numbnut at Teterboro who asked what color the North and West departures were since the South departures kept being referred to as the White departures. Another pilot finally piped in and explained that White was an intersection on the departure. It wasn't a Flex guy though as we were the only ones waiting in line at the time.

Should have told him brown and green lol