Flexjet Management Promotes Calling Pilots while in Rest

[rajflyboy]

Still amatuer hour here I see

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Yes, we are being played. Why can't FO pilots get on yammer then? If we voluntarily sign up, the union can't claim we we are being forced to listen. I have no problem with management knowing my name.

 

[BlueNose]

You're making a lot of bad assumptions here pal,

I was probably a bit over the top in my last post, so I'm sorry for that. Easy to get carried away in the spirit of FI. But I don't agree that I'm making bad assumptions; I do think that you changed what I said so you could build a straw man to attack instead of refuting the points of my post. I didn't say that the contract brought no improvements over the bad old MS/Sanjay days, and yes I remember them well (the contract did help protect against those practices). I said that it (presently) locks FO pilots into weak scope and the lowest pay in the frac industry (when compared with what's left of the old Big 4, Flex and NJA). And I disagreed with your earlier assertion that the scope clause protects against dumping trips to other companies, because it really allows the company to use Flex (and other brand partners) in an unlimited capacity when the time comes. I never said they're flying FO trips now. Why would they, when FO labor is so much cheaper? But if/when negotiations get tense and some crews might decide to slow things down with the traditional work to rule, those trips can be switched over with little difficulty. That's going to hurt leverage, a lot. I'm for the pilots, and not practicing any self-flagellation. But I think it's unfair to paint some rosy picture that simply isn't true. I'm a firm believer in making lemonade when life gives you lemons, but first you have to admit they're lemons. I didn't make any revelations that the company managers aren't already fully aware of, just some the IBT leaders don't seem eager to address. And so I don't really believe you consider me as your pal, either. But just because I don't carry IBT pom poms doesn't mean I'm your enemy.

I agree with you that airline hiring is probably the best hope of bringing pressure to raise wages and restore benefits. Let's hope the market does its magic and that happens. But I think any FO pilot under 45 with a clean record ought to try as hard as he/she can to make the jump to the majors, because I dont' see much future wage growth on this side of the industry. The glory days of Frac flying are probably past. The price pressure from the charter operators looks likely to hold prices and wages down, even though they're offering an inferior product.

 

[rajflyboy]

I was probably a bit over the top in my last post, so I'm sorry for that. Easy to get carried away in the spirit of FI. But I don't agree that I'm making bad assumptions; I do think that you changed what I said so you could build a straw man to attack instead of refuting the points of my post. I didn't say that the contract brought no improvements over the bad old MS/Sanjay days, and yes I remember them well (the contract did help protect against those practices). I said that it (presently) locks FO pilots into weak scope and the lowest pay in the frac industry (when compared with what's left of the old Big 4, Flex and NJA). And I disagreed with your earlier assertion that the scope clause protects against dumping trips to other companies, because it really allows the company to use Flex (and other brand partners) in an unlimited capacity when the time comes. I never said they're flying FO trips now. Why would they, when FO labor is so much cheaper? But if/when negotiations get tense and some crews might decide to slow things down with the traditional work to rule, those trips can be switched over with little difficulty. That's going to hurt leverage, a lot. I'm for the pilots, and not practicing any self-flagellation. But I think it's unfair to paint some rosy picture that simply isn't true. I'm a firm believer in making lemonade when life gives you lemons, but first you have to admit they're lemons. I didn't make any revelations that the company managers aren't already fully aware of, just some the IBT leaders don't seem eager to address. And so I don't really believe you consider me as your pal, either. But just because I don't carry IBT pom poms doesn't mean I'm your enemy.

I agree with you that airline hiring is probably the best hope of bringing pressure to raise wages and restore benefits. Let's hope the market does its magic and that happens. But I think any FO pilot under 45 with a clean record ought to try as hard as he/she can to make the jump to the majors, because I dont' see much future wage growth on this side of the industry. The glory days of Frac flying are probably past. The price pressure from the charter operators looks likely to hold prices and wages down, even though they're offering an inferior product.

Great post!!!

 

[gutshotdraw]

The recall acceptance rate at NJ is south of 50%. And falling. There ARE other jobs out there, both airline and corporate. And we can only hope the competition for qualified, experienced pilots will continue to heat up and drive a paradigm shift in this industry's compensation model.

 

[el raton]

The recall acceptance rate at NJ is south of 50%. And falling. There ARE other jobs out there, both airline and corporate. And we can only hope the competition for qualified, experienced pilots will continue to heat up and drive a paradigm shift in this industry's compensation model.

Here here

 

[johnsonrod]

The recall acceptance rate at NJ is south of 50%. And falling. There ARE other jobs out there, both airline and corporate. And we can only hope the competition for qualified, experienced pilots will continue to heat up and drive a paradigm shift in this industry's compensation model.

What is the rough "starting" wage for a returning furloughee?

If that amount is not competitive with what the LCCs, Legacies and higher-quality 135 operators are currently offering I can understand why the acceptance rate might be lowish...

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Hi Blue Nose
I think you missed a minor point on the current fractional industry wanting experienced pilots and wage growth. Are high net worth individuals really that cheap that they are willing to sacrifice their safety? "The price pressure from the charter operators looks likely to hold prices and wages down, even though they're offering an inferior product." So why are you comparing the two?

 

[jonjuan]

Hi Blue Nose
I think you missed a minor point on the current fractional industry wanting experienced pilots and wage growth. Are high net worth individuals really that cheap that they are willing to sacrifice their safety? "The price pressure from the charter operators looks likely to hold prices and wages down, even though they're offering an inferior product." So why are you comparing the two?

I've known billionaires who would rather save a few pennies and fly with sentient. They can still claim that it's safer than crossing the street.

 

[BlueNose]

Hi Blue Nose
I think you missed a minor point on the current fractional industry wanting experienced pilots and wage growth. Are high net worth individuals really that cheap that they are willing to sacrifice their safety? "The price pressure from the charter operators looks likely to hold prices and wages down, even though they're offering an inferior product." So why are you comparing the two?

We would all like to think you're right, but I believe growth in the industry has shown otherwise since the downturn. Charter has taken a larger share of the industry. Even in the fracs, cards have been a growing part of the business, and that's just block charter. Unfortunately, I think it comes down to uninformed consumers. We know the difference between the big fracs and the typical 135, but we're on the inside. The average customer thinks that the FAA sets standards high enough to keep them safe. So if an operator has no recent accidents or violations, they must be safe. We all know that's a joke. But everyone claims to uphold the highest standards of safety, and there's little information that's publicly available. Even the rating agencies are mostly BS.

Pilots talk to other pilots and see the crews on the road, we get to know reputations in the industry, so we get a pretty good idea of who the $hitbag operators are and the pressure put on their crews to get'er done. Rivalries aside, all the large fracs are light years ahead of that level. It costs a lot less to staff at 2.1 pilots per airplane, give your crews 5 days off a month, and have them live on a beeper. Unfortunatley, I don't think most customers can tell the difference. And when you're looking at two roughly equal products, price becomes the big differentiator. Like it or not, that's our competition these days. Macy's might like to think they don't compete with Walmart, but the market tells them differently.