Flexjet Management Promotes Calling Pilots while in Rest

[el raton]

U guys are afu

Its standard practice in the 135 world to begin your duty day when the phone rings... provided you have had at least 10 hours off

This is how the fed has used this rule for years

I wonder how experienced many of you guys are? Its like amateur hour reading these posts

So you're saying you can be on call 24 hours provided you had at least 10 hours prior rest?

 

[rajflyboy]

Talk to the poi's


In the 135 world

And flex can still run under 135 regs

 

[el raton]

Talk to the poi's


In the 135 world

And flex can still run under 135 regs

Well we're always given an "out of rest" time, so even though our duty may not begin, our 14 hour clock has started when we're out of rest. I might be out of rest at 0700 lcl but I can't be used past 2100 lcl regardless of 91k/135. We're not on indefinite call once we have our previous 10 hrs rest as you eluded.

 

[rajflyboy]

Under 91k you are right

If they choose to run 135 then it wouldbe different

 

[rajflyboy]

Its always been a grey area in part 135 ops

Most operators take advantage of this grey area and the feds have allowed them to do this

 

[Praetorian]

lim it ed adjective
1. restricted in size, amount, or extent.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. If Jet Solutions is a Flight Options brand partner, and all Flex pilots have agency agreements with Solutions, how exactly is the number of FO trips they fly restricted? Did I miss the scope provision that restricts the amount of third-party charter or brand partner flying the company may use...

Yes

...or is that still a big hole in the contract scope clause as we've discussed on here before?

The only 'limiting' factor for DAC in sending more trips to the Flex side is that FO crews have a much lower hourly labor cost (not really the preferred way to guarantee job security for your members, is it?). If FO dispatch availability tanks during upcoming negotiations, I think they will send trips to the Flex side, the only 'limit' being what the Flex fleet can handle. Please explain to us what the IBT will do to stop that? Or is that threat 'inconceivable'?

CBA Section "1.3(b)(1) Subcontract Charter shall not be used to reduce existing positions or to slow expansion. " You will notice this section of the CBA was cited in the union's pending grievance.

Also I suspect your concern is the subject of fence negotiations and will be addressed.

I know you have some kind of axe to grind with our union. But since we're headed back to collective bargaining in the fall, don't you think its high time you stopped airing this stuff in public? Time to circle the wagons.

If you want to raise these issues, why don't you do it with the union's leadership in person, or on our message board, where they can be addressed directly and more thoroughly?

 

[el raton]

Under 91k you are right

If they choose to run 135 then it wouldbe different

Our 91k/135 rest rules pretty much mirror each other.

 

[el raton]

CBA Section "1.3(b)(1) Subcontract Charter shall not be used to reduce existing positions or to slow expansion. " You will notice this section of the CBA was cited in the union's pending grievance.

Also I suspect your concern is the subject of fence negotiations and will be addressed.

I know you have some kind of axe to grind with our union. But since we're headed back to collective bargaining in the fall, don't you think its high time you stopped airing this stuff in public? Time to circle the wagons.

If you want to raise these issues, why don't you do it with the union's leadership in person, or on our message board, where they can be addressed directly and more thoroughly?

Yet you are all too willing to air Flex's "stuff" in public.

 

[squawk]

Any part of a contract can be willfully ignored. Just look throughout aviation labor history for these actions. Scope is the most frequently abused. The union must perceive a scope violation and argue it before management. Management can just tell the union to go through the grievance process. Scope violations are not always so transparent and there is a lot of interpretation by both sides. This process can take a very long time, months and months, years, and in the meantime, the violations continues.

Just saying this because so many IBT members speak of scope as if it acts like a preventive restraining order. Not so. Aviation managers have walked all over very strong scope agreements in order to archive operational goals. They do it willfully because there are no consequences other than having a mediator tell them to cease after a long grievance process.

Now I fully expect some rabid IBT member to tell me what a knave in the woods I am. I say, your scope is not as rigid as you think, and, it does not prevent managers from doing what they need or plan to do with the operation.

 

[The Architect]

Can You Say Injuction?

Any part of a contract can be willfully ignored. Just look throughout aviation labor history for these actions. Scope is the most frequently abused. The union must perceive a scope violation and argue it before management. Management can just tell the union to go through the grievance process. Scope violations are not always so transparent and there is a lot of interpretation by both sides. This process can take a very long time, months and months, years, and in the meantime, the violations continues.

Just saying this because so many IBT members speak of scope as if it acts like a preventive restraining order. Not so. Aviation managers have walked all over very strong scope agreements in order to archive operational goals. They do it willfully because there are no consequences other than having a mediator tell them to cease after a long grievance process.

Now I fully expect some rabid IBT member to tell me what a knave in the woods I am. I say, your scope is not as rigid as you think, and, it does not prevent managers from doing what they need or plan to do with the operation.

"Willfully ignored?" I think not.

No "mediators" are involved in this process.

Also, while the grievance process is ongoing, labor-management usually tries to reach a settlement.

And, of course, there are court injunctions to cease and desist. That's federal court. Good luck on telling a federal judge your not complying with his order.

Oh ya. IBT 1108 hands down won a scope grievance a few years ago against Flight Options. Took a few months. But an "arbitrator" clearly ruled in favor of the IBT.