FlexJet / Flight Options / SkyJet

[slowtation capt]

Are you going to try to answer any if my questions as to what % of FO pilots are members of the IBT.

Since I am not a member of the MEC, I don't have those #'s.
I won't try to answer it, I couldn't guess either. There's pilots that I have never met, never even heard their names, etc....
From my experience 70% of the pilots that I personally fly with have the horses.

Also, if things were/are so bad there, why do so many of your pilots hate the IBT? It doesn't seem like they are totally against unions, just the IBT.

Because it's the IBT. There is always that stigma that will follow the IBT
The thing though is; and you said it.

It doesn't seem like they are totally against unions, just the IBT.

If you can find a Union that would suit us better, and will represent us, let us know, but my guess is, you won't find it.

 

[slowtation capt]

That post about being being unjustly fired is a reason why I won't apply at options anytime soon.

There's no need to apply, KR bought you.

 

[FR8DOG777]

Club you are asking questions and trying to become informed, which is admirable. By your analogy basically you are saying we want to ride the coat tails of the progress that the union at netjets has made. Or maybe you get hired at delta, United, or American tomorrow and enjoy the contractual benefits that have been hard fought for and won for year, after year, after year. Do not discount our 16 years of experience with RICCI. Had it not been for Raytheon, flops would have faced the same fate of avantair by 2003. RICCI took all the money and invested it into his infrastructure, sold bad contracts to gain market share, and defaulted on his loan to Raytheon. That is indisputable. So now we, flight options pilots go into survival mode and circle the wagons and unionize. We are sold a bunch of lies and rebuild this company from the ground up, including ********************ty wages and degraded life on the road. OK great we screwed up and now all boats must rise with the incoming tide right? Except they don't want to share the fruits of our labors. I am tired of this argument. RICCI will never pay us. I say we call the vote tomorrow and move on with life!

 

[slowtation capt]

that's not enough suddenly change how we've handled human resources.

Who is the head of human resources now?

If Bob Sullivan is the answer, well Bob Sullivan was a major part of the firing of 4.

Why not just wait for things to get bad, then you can say I told you so, and you'll get a lot more votes

Because I've been down that road, it's a 6 yr. process from when you get feed up with it being bad till you have something worth voting on.

I've invested my time into it all ready, and I don't want to waste the investment I put into it.

I've said it before, I'll say it again.

Nothing can stop KR from doing things RIGHT THIS MINUTE to make things better from Flops (pay, 401K, etc)

KR didn't hesitate to give us a meal plan the minute he bought the company, we didn't have a contract yet, but we had the Union.

I always heard from KR that he wanted Flops pilots to be the hightest paid. Well.............

During negotiations, the raise he wanted to give us, was to bring back the SFO program.
Granted, times were bad back when we voted yes for the contract.
However things have improved, couldn't KR give us a raise mid contract? How about the 401K,
YES, he can.

 

[The Architect]

DW Lied

She actually said the union would not allow direct communications between management and FO pilots on Yammer.

The union did NOT say "it would not allow direct communications between management and FO pilots on Yammer."

If she said that, SHE LIED.

Carefully read the communications. The union specifically requested access for the Flight Options pilot. Management "DENIED" the access.

DW's reference on Yammer is a matter of fait accompli. The union asked for access to the only employee group omitted by OneSky from Yammer, the Flight Options pilots. The request did not mention anything with regard to "terms and conditions of employment." The union was denied. The union asked again, emphasizing that it found the forum acceptable since "terms and conditions of employment" would be management-representative discussions. DENIED AGAIN.

Let's get this right and put it to rest.

It's OneSky's Yammer. They control it. ACCESS DENIED!

If you want to use a forum to communicate with Flight Options pilot and the union, go to their message board. ACCESS PERMITTED!

 

[FR8DOG777]

If we could get RICCI banned from business aviation like Donald Sterling got banned from the NBA, life would be better for all of us!

 

[The Architect]

What Happened!

Why is everyone throwing sand in the sandbox?

Everyone was getting along with constructive conversation?

What happened?

So, let's give it a try.

Explain to me the FO crews who I run into on the road that have experienced all of the same stuff as you and want nothing to do with the IBT, much less a union.

Oh, you may have found a few crews disgruntled. That happens everywhere. Don't make it sound like a majority.

You say we don't understand. What I don't understand is that if things are as bad as you say, why aren't 100% of the FO pilots in favor of the IBT?

Same answer as above. Everyone knows that you will never get 100% of over 400 individuals to agree. Especially pilots. Like you for example.

If people that have gone through the same thing as you seem to agree with my views, why should we take your word over theirs?

You shouldn't. Every individual needs to get educated and ready to make a decision. Discuss. Argue a little. Research. Weigh your options. Don't make your final decision yet. It's too early. But try to stick with facts when making decisions rather than unsubstantiated opinions.

Explain to me the little symbol on your ID that shows that you are a union member. Why don't all of your pilots have that? Any chance you might be willing to disclose the number of pilots that don't have that on their IDs?

Easy. When Flight Options pilots negotiated their contract they wanted to be able to wear IBT lanyards. The company didn't like ANY lanyards to conform with their opinion of a pilot uniform. The parties agreed to the IBT logo on company IDs. If a pilot is a member in good standing, he gets a badge with the logo. He can choose to wear it, or his ID without it.

Wow, freedom of choice!

The number? Does it really matter? And the union wouldn't know who's wearing what badge at any given time. That's a matter of choice.

 

[slowtation capt]

If we could get RICCI banned from business aviation like Donald Sterling got banned from the NBA, life would be better for all of us!

It wouldn't be hard, if we were in the NBA.

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

Club ORD - Our management at flex is different. Sure they might all be replaced, but until that happens I'm not worried about our management suddenly starting to can people they don't like. I don't care if KR is the head honcho, that's not enough suddenly change how we've handled human resources.

Club, I think we've been on opposite sides of the road so far, even though I consider many of your posts thoughtful. I gotta question this portion of your post, though. First you say you're not worried, then you admit that Uncle is indeed the new big Kahuna.

This is the part I find difficult. We've been banging our heads against the wall wanting you to admit there's a new sheriff in town. But even when you do, you still state nothing will change, even though we have had years of experience in this matter and even though you have had some changes thrust upon you already.

Honestly, I'm tryin' to follow your logic because I don't see how you can have one, but exclude the other. Are you Googling "Flight Options, lawsuits" or "Flight Options, Raytheon"? Have you researched Uncle's past history? Not conjecture, but his actual track record?

This is a big part of our position. We've experienced a merger. We've experienced Uncle - and other CEO's - with and without representation. We've experienced a rodeo - hard fought during the Great Recession. We may not say it so eloquently, but we know this guy. We know how he operates.

A "wait 'n see" plan is really no plan at all - it's leaving your future in the hands of someone else. Is that really how you want your career to proceed?

 

[Downwind]

I don't have a horse in this race but from where I sit the FJ guys have their heads buried six feet in the sand. I haven't seen this much denial since the ex-WindRider guys followed Wynn and Co. into the ground at Pinnacle/JetRide/Aspen jet. I hope the best for you guys but I think a lot of you need a reality check. Life has changed and is probably about to change even more. And I don't think you can see that.