FlexJet / Flight Options / SkyJet

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Wow. Ok, Where do I start?

First off, TWA 2 ASA FO, James, JM or whatever you'd like to be called, I have been employed at FlexJet almost twice as long as you have and am respectfully requesting that you stop using words like "WE" or "US" or phrases like "All Of Us" while posting to this forum or on Yammer. You sir do not have the right to speak on behalf of every crewmember at FlexJet and do not certainly speak for me. I've been biting my tongue while reading the posts that you and all the rest of the Anti-Union club have been posting on both forums and finally felt obligated to speak up a little.

Unfortunately unlike you, those of us who are openminded and have not yet formulated our decisions or have views that contradict yours, don't have the luxury of posting without fear. We are therefore much more limited about how and what we say, but those of you that are not limited should not be so arrogant as to think they speak for all.

This most recent post of yours speaks volumes, and is a perfect example of the "What's in it for me" mentality that plagues this country as well as the new FlexJet. I say NEW FlexJet because that's exactly what it is. The FlexJet of old no longer exists and if you and the others like you don't accept that fact pretty quickly, I'm afraid we may be in for a very rude awakening.

The question you should be asking is not what would we gain, but what would we lose by not being represented. The answer is EVERYTHING, and it quite honestly amazes me that you and others don't see that. Or perhaps you do see it but choose not to because in reality, one of the possibilities of representation is that it may affect the membership rules at the BATC "good ol boys" club. Anyhow, your thoughts and feelings are just that, not mine or anyone elses thank you very much.

To my fellow crewmembers at Flight Options. This individual and the others like him do not represent the FlexJet group as a whole. There are many out there just like me who are approaching this situation with caution and an open mind. It is a tough road to hoe however due the obvious limitations imposed by both the reality of it and mangagement as well. Communication is the key and they certainly have the upper hand at this time. The open access offer on the 1108 website and the rebuttal to the recent yammer fiasco are exactly the types of things that need to be done. A lot more facts and a lot less rhetoric will go long way towards gaining support from us at FlexJet.

You are absolutely entitled to your opinion.

I am sure from your position sitting on top of our seniority list the potential of the IBT merging the pilot groups isn't as scarey a thought as it is for the ret of us. Have you been here long enough to have the cushy grandfathered home basing?

Lots of crews at this company talk to me on a very regular basis. The overwhelming consensus is they want nothing to do with a union. Thus is where I get my into from.

I am sure there are pilots here that either want a union or are open to information from the IBT. All I would like is for them to get accurate information so they can make a decision that is best for them and FJ.

 

[ProFracPilot]

Have you guys not been receiving emails about changes in who does what in management?

As a matter of fact, we have not. Which goes to show you exactly what management thinks of its employees. Which I am, first. An employee who works for Flight Options. I happen to be represented by a union, but the union doesn't provide me my paycheck.

Tell me again? What's numero 3 on Kenn's list of The Three Fundamentals? You don't espouse to treat your employees as the foundation of a service company, then proceed to ostracize them.

Remember, all of yours/our managers work for Kenn. NOT for Bombardier.

 

[dime line]

Have you guys not been receiving emails about changes in who does what in management?

So far all of your flight operations management now reports to DW.

As we merge the behind the scenes operation we won't need two CPs DOs and you name it. Oh yeah, or DO is also over your operation now. You DO reports to him.

Tell me again whose management team is going to be running things.

As much hatred as you guys express towards you management team you should be very happy with the changes that you aparently haven't been told about by your union.

Big Fat "Nope" on the emails. And your statement about the union, they don't run the company so they don't have change info. Nice try

 

[slowtation capt]

Wow. Ok, Where do I start?

First off, TWA 2 ASA FO, James, JM or whatever you'd like to be called, I have been employed at FlexJet almost twice as long as you have and am respectfully requesting that you stop using words like "WE" or "US" or phrases like "All Of Us" while posting to this forum or on Yammer. You sir do not have the right to speak on behalf of every crewmember at FlexJet and do not certainly speak for me. I've been biting my tongue while reading the posts that you and all the rest of the Anti-Union club have been posting on both forums and finally felt obligated to speak up a little.

Unfortunately unlike you, those of us who are openminded and have not yet formulated our decisions or have views that contradict yours, don't have the luxury of posting without fear. We are therefore much more limited about how and what we say, but those of you that are not limited should not be so arrogant as to think they speak for all.

This most recent post of yours speaks volumes, and is a perfect example of the "What's in it for me" mentality that plagues this country as well as the new FlexJet. I say NEW FlexJet because that's exactly what it is. The FlexJet of old no longer exists and if you and the others like you don't accept that fact pretty quickly, I'm afraid we may be in for a very rude awakening.

The question you should be asking is not what would we gain, but what would we lose by not being represented. The answer is EVERYTHING, and it quite honestly amazes me that you and others don't see that. Or perhaps you do see it but choose not to because in reality, one of the possibilities of representation is that it may affect the membership rules at the BATC "good ol boys" club. Anyhow, your thoughts and feelings are just that, not mine or anyone elses thank you very much.

To my fellow crewmembers at Flight Options. This individual and the others like him do not represent the FlexJet group as a whole. There are many out there just like me who are approaching this situation with caution and an open mind. It is a tough road to hoe however due the obvious limitations imposed by both the reality of it and mangagement as well. Communication is the key and they certainly have the upper hand at this time. The open access offer on the 1108 website and the rebuttal to the recent yammer fiasco are exactly the types of things that need to be done. A lot more facts and a lot less rhetoric will go long way towards gaining support from us at FlexJet.

BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!

Excellent post, and many a thanks to the hardworking, true line pilot of FlexJet that decided to not let a someone working towards a future management position dictate the entire thoughts and feelings of X# of FlexJet pilots with the personal opinions and thoughts.

 

[slowtation capt]

Have you guys not been receiving emails about changes in who does what in management?

Have you not read or listened to what we have been saying?
Company has not communicated with us
Company is not allowing Flops pilots on your precious yammer

Oh yeah, or DO is also over your operation now. You DO reports to him.

Tell that to the FAA

The certificate holder is authorized the following management positions:​

a. The certificate holder uses the following named personnel in the 14 CFR Part 135 management​

positions listed below. All management personnel listed in this operations specification must be direct​

employees of the certificate holder.​

Table 1- Authorized Management Positions and Personnel​

1. The Certificate Holder applies for the Operations in this paragraph.​

2. These Operations Specifications are approved by direction of the Administrator.​

3. I hereby accept and receive the Operations Specifications in this paragraph.​

A006 . Management Personnel HQ Control: 10/19/2009​

HQ Revision: 030​

Part 119 Position Title Name Company Equivalent Position Title​

(Not Applicable) Gross, Bryan Director of Safety / Security​

Chief Inspector Hammond, Mark Chief Inspector​

Chief Pilot Montie, Tim Chief Pilot​

Director of Maintenance Ramey, John Director of Maintenance​

Director of Operations Weaver, James Director of Operations​

U.S. Department​

of Transportation​

Federal Aviation​

Administration​

​

​

​

​

​

​

​

​

Operations Specifications​

Flight Options LLC A006-1​

Amdt. No: 31​

Certificate No.: DJFA206D​

Digitally signed by Thomas G McCormick, Principal Maintenance Inspector (EA23)

 

[John MClain]

The biggest problem for those that want to keep being represented after integration is convincing the fence sitters. The very vocal Yammer posters have already made up their minds, and there is no way you will ever convince them otherwise. They are a lost cause and a waste of time and effort. As I stated in my previous post, they do not represent FlexJet as a whole but they do have their fair share of the group, and certainly have the upper hand when it comes to pleading their case to the masses. What those numbers actually are is anyones guess and probably the biggest reason for the delay in approaching the NMB for single carrier status by either camp. I would certainly think it's a lot less than what most feel it is but it's a hard number to quantify given that it's always the same people posting on Yammer. Out on the road, it's even harder. Casual conversations do come up but nobody will give a very cut and dry answer one way or the other, due to the obvious reasons.

Don't know how the 1108 powers to be can change any of this. The website invitation olive branch has already been tainted on Yammer as some evil and corrupt way for the union to gain access to personal information or gauge support. I know some, including myself are apprehensive about joining for fear of it getting back to RH, JW, DW, or any of the Fleet Chiefs.

Christ, it's even kinda hard posting here given the accusations and rumors of certain management types spending hours trying to figure out who's who. I guess the reality is that eventually we will be merged and no matter which way it goes, no one will be completely happy, someones going to get screwed and both FlexJet and Flight Options will never be the same.

Life is never very good for very long.

Good luck to us all.

 

[slowtation capt]

The website invitation olive branch has already been tainted on Yammer as some evil and corrupt way for the union to gain access to personal information or gauge support.

Of course it has. When one pilot group that happens to be the Unionized pilot group is not allowed access, what do you expect. They are trying to spread FUD, trying to make a name for themselves in the eyes of the company, there are a million reasons why they are on yammer talking about the invitation.
I think everybody knows that Flops pilots are the only employee group with held access to yammer. So if you are going to go on yammer and say something about the Union, which the Union has no idea you are saying, which the Union is unable to defend, then you have only one motivation. How can I make myself look good to management.
If you were a person who did not believe in the Union, and did not want to be part of the website, then you wouldn't be on yammer denouncing it, you wouldn't say a word on yammer. You would just go about your business and not worry about the evil entity getting you name, email address, phone number, mailing address, etc.........

I know some, including myself are apprehensive about joining for fear of it getting back to RH, JW, DW, or any of the Fleet Chiefs.

I understand exactly where you are coming from. It's hard to get past that thought and feeling. However I would say that if anything that was said on the Union website, if that somehow made it to said people (I can't say it wouldn't happen, there are mole's everywhere) and someone from Flex was called on it, worse was disciplined, or terminated. The Union would have it's day with the company over that. Something like that would never be tolerated. Even if we are not merged yet, and even if you haven't made up your mind of Union or Not, if something happened to corrupt the freedom of the Union website, I know the MEC would not stand for that.

 

[chief9404]

You are likely wrong. Once fences are properly negotiated, Flops will probably only see Flexjet's "cast-off's" as they are replaced with newer equipment. After all, Flexjet will be the "Premier Provider" storefront with new equipment, while Flops is the "Value Brand" store front with the used and/or "re-manufactured" stuff. I am not so naive to think anything is beyond an attempt by the DAC management team, but you certainly don't have to be a smug A$$ about it. Grow up.

Cross bidding was announced by Kenn. Since he is the boss I think his rules would apply.

 

[jetwash]

An excellent quote about unions in yesterdays WSJ.

"If you're not at the table, you're probably on the menu."


I would hope that the Flex jet pilots join us at the table.

 

[FR8DOG777]

Welcome back john. Thanks for the support, we could use some more help like yours over here. We know it was a bitter pill to swallow facing the reality of merging with options and emotions sometime run high. By the sounds of your last few posts it looks like you have made the choice to do the best you can considering the options. Its time to take this fight to riccis camp and I am proud to fight side by side with you brother.