FlexJet / Flight Options / SkyJet

[Helmsalee]

"When or if the list is merged there will be new fences that will protect each pilot group through Makaskill-Bond. I am sure WE will protect the rights of our first officers to upgrade to Captain before any FO pilots are allowed to bid to the FJ side.

It truly saddens me that the junior pilot at FO has 13+ years seniority! but WE are not going to allow that fact to hurt our pilots career expectations. And yes, that is part of McKaskill-Bond."

TWA,
You are correct that career expectations are integral to seniority list integrations. However, you forget that the other side has expectations too. If the parties cannot come to a mutually acceptable agreement, then it will be done by an arbitrator and his decision will be binding. I do not see the groups agreeing, so an outsider will decide. Yes, an arbitrator takes career expectations into account. Unfortunately, there is no way that the expectations of both side can be accommodated so he ends up trying to share the hurt equally.

I do not have a dog in this fight, but I have "been there, done that" twice. If both sides are equally pissed, then the arbitrator has done his job. If one side is happy, he has not.

Helm

 

[gret]

I know you very well..And I know your a smoking hole waiting to happen..

This isn't cool!

 

[V1 Rotate]

This isn't cool!

Kind of what I was thinking, too. Unless these two legitimately know one another and despise each other already, this definitely crosses a line. Probably does anyway.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Kind of what I was thinking, too. Unless these two legitimately know one another and despise each other already, this definitely crosses a line. Probably does anyway.

I have no idea who this tool is.

There are several people on here from FJ that know me, bet they don't back his statement.

 

[Club ORD FO]

His lies start with: Telling me that FlightOps has no mx at 10pm at night, A union VP is telling a FlexJet FO that the list is done, it's DOH and he is going to be furloughed, and that the Union is stopping the company from letting the pilots onto a Facebook Messenger for the corporate world called Yammer.

Actually everything he is saying came from way higher up and was told to all our pilots via either a conference call or on at the message board.

- The "options does not do MX during the night" was said by many people, including our DO.
- the story VP of the union having an argument with a flex pilot in an FBO was posted by that flex pilot on our company message board
- The union not allowing options pilots to be on the company message board was said by our CEO

True or not I dunno, but he's not he one starting them, everyone has heard them

 

[wingsnthings]

This isn't cool!

Not cool at all!

 

[slowtation capt]

Actually everything he is saying came from way higher up and was told to all our pilots via either a conference call or on at the message board.

- The "options does not do MX during the night" was said by many people, including our DO.
- the story VP of the union having an argument with a flex pilot in an FBO was posted by that flex pilot on our company message board
- The union not allowing options pilots to be on the company message board was said by our CEO

True or not I dunno, but he's not he one starting them, everyone has heard them

Seriously, just think about it. Can you believe that we wouldn't have mx at night for our type of operations. If this is the stuff coming from the top down, then everyone needs to open their eyes and understand who is really trying to play who. 12167978343 - Call it at whatever time you want, when mx answers, think about who is trying to pit who against who. Better look way up top, cause the guys below are being told to feed this information to the minions in hopes of dividing the group and conquering the 1108.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Seriously, just think about it. Can you believe that we wouldn't have mx at night for our type of operations. If this is the stuff coming from the top down, then everyone needs to open their eyes and understand who is really trying to play who. 12167978343 - Call it at whatever time you want, when mx answers, think about who is trying to pit who against who. Better look way up top, cause the guys below are being told to feed this information to the minions in hopes of dividing the group and conquering the 1108.

How does wether or not you have 24 hr maintenance divide the group?

Have you asked the IBT about Yammer? I really just want to hear their answer.

 

[Club ORD FO]

Seriously, just think about it. Can you believe that we wouldn't have mx at night for our type of operations. If this is the stuff coming from the top down, then everyone needs to open their eyes and understand who is really trying to play who. 12167978343 - Call it at whatever time you want, when mx answers, think about who is trying to pit who against who. Better look way up top, cause the guys below are being told to feed this information to the minions in hopes of dividing the group and conquering the 1108.

Ok let me be a bit more specific about what we've been told. This was from a conference call that include KR and JW. The topic was changes that options is implementing after learning about our operation. JW answered the question. He said options doesn't do MX overnight and it hurts your overall availability in the morning. And to be clear, what I mean is you don't send out mechanics at night. If you land at 9pm and find a bad tire and write it up and some airport in the middle of nowhere, will it be ready to go at 6am? At flex it would be, we road crew out mechanics in the middle of the night.

On another topic, what do you think of your MEC? Good group? Good leadership? Good attitudes? Just curious. Another thing we've been told is that after the recent grievance meeting, the union wanted to release a joint statement with he company, but then released their own statement first. Meanwhile the flex pilots were like "hey how come we are reading about this on AIN and not being told directly?"

 

[Brit]

I have no idea who this tool is.

There are several people on here from FJ that know me, bet they don't back his statement.

I seriously wouldn't waste anymore of your time on here. Nothing is going to be decided by debating and name calling on here. Everyone on here has a valid point to some degree and there are better venues for discussion than this.

 

[slowtation capt]

How does wether or not you have 24 hr maintenance divide the group?

Have you asked the IBT about Yammer? I really just want to hear their answer.

Who said anything about dividing the group. I'm just pointing out that what they are telling you is incorrect.

I'm done anyways, you don't logically respond, fail to answer questions.

Please just wake up and realize, put some hard thought into the things they are telling you. If you notice everything leads to the Union being bad, seriously think about what they are feeding you.

Enjoy the rest of your time debating 24 hr mx, and what not, and what your all-mighty DW tells you, because a lot of it is being fed from KR to fight the Union.

See Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jetwash]

Actually everything he is saying came from way higher up and was told to all our pilots via either a conference call or on at the message board.

- The "options does not do MX during the night" was said by many people, including our DO.
- the story VP of the union having an argument with a flex pilot in an FBO was posted by that flex pilot on our company message board
- The union not allowing options pilots to be on the company message board was said by our CEO

True or not I dunno, but he's not he one starting them, everyone has heard them

I can assure you that Mx is done at night. Just last tour they called out a guy to come and do some work on our aircraft while we were sleeping. In the morning it was green and signed off.
I mentioned this to some of our MX guys and they laughed, so maybe the story was streatched a little for the audience. Do you honestly beleive that after 15 years nobody at Flight options would have come with the idea of fixing airplanes at night.


As for Yammer, I don't think management wants the FO pilots asking questions and bringing up things that might cause them to lose control of the information that is being presented. A perfect example was the last call in, this time all questions were to be sent in before and would then be selected as to which ones were answered. Before it was a call in and anyone could ask a question. The only problem was they didn't like the questions that were asked.

During Flight Options call in secession a question regarding when our 401k match was going to be reinstated was asked and Kenn's reply was that the pilots union negotiated it away for all of the employees. Unfortunately some of the small minded office workers in CGF beleived that a union which they don't belong to can negotiate away their benefits. They are being fed all kinds of misinformation and management does not want them to hear anything else, especially from the union.

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

shanes, the smoking hole post was not cool and over the top, even for you.

 

[GooseHZ]

A legally binding contact or promises on yammer. Just food for thought.

 

[993_Pilot]

... As for Yammer, I don't think management wants the FO pilots asking questions and bringing up things that might cause them to lose control of the information that is being presented. A perfect example was the last call in, this time all questions were to be sent in before and would then be selected as to which ones were answered. Before it was a call in and anyone could ask a question. The only problem was they didn't like the questions that were asked...

That is probably a huge reason for the FLOPS pilots not being invited to join Yammer. The FLOPS pilots can speak truthfully instead of singing the company's version of "Kumbaya", because they have a union to protect them from any retribution (as long as they are truthful). Unfortunately, there are no repercussions if management tells half-truths and/or lies. This is just one more way that management can treat us separately and spread some F.U.D. in an attempt to keep us divided. The IBT has absolutely no say in anything to do with Yammer, unless it is in the contract ... and it isn't. The decision to keep us out, rests with with management alone.

The Flex pilots may have been able to trust what their management said before DAC, but the top decision makers have changed, and with it the information (or mis-information & F.U.D.) that gets put out to you all. The FLOPS pilots have all been through a merger with this management team before, and unfortunately, we are all too well aware of the ratio of truth in what KR and his managers spout. Just listen with an open mind to what the more reasonable among us say, and take the usual FI "hot-heads" with a grain of salt.

Why would the 1108 want to screw over the Flex pilots in any seniority list merger? It should go without saying that there is no possible way to do it so that everyone will be happy. However, to merge the lists in as fair a way as possible, so that the largest possible percentage of both groups are happy, would be the best win for the IBT. Without a doubt, the 1108 eventually needs the Flex pilots support if they are to survive, and that is why you shouldn't have any fear about this. Personally, having a contract supported by the IBT is much more important to me than a few seniority numbers. Given some more time under the DAC management umbrella, I am confident that the Flex pilots will begin to understand this. We really are all on the same side.

 

[Praetorian]

IBT national won't devote the kind of $$$$ you need girl this fight. I saw this with ALPA at the regionals. You pay dues and are promised equal representation, but once you start costing the mother IBT $$$ you will see just much of a red-headed step child you will become.

So they appointed you to be head FUD spewer here on FI?

Your transparent attempt to spread it around here notwithstanding, the IBT is not ALPA and Flight Options is not a regional. As the 1108 proved during the CA debacle, they will never desert their members, no matter what.

You know what I think? I think you're scared. You're afraid that if the Flex pilots join the FO pilots in the union you will be left out in the cold. You will no longer be able to suck a$$ to get favors and sweet deals from your friends in management because you know a union means fair and equitable treatment for everyone.

Go repeat your lies somewhere else. Maybe there is an audience for them on Yammer.

 

[squawk]

You're afraid that if the Flex pilots join the FO pilots in the union you will be left out in the cold. You will no longer be able to suck a$$ to get favors and sweet deals from your friends in management because you know a union means fair and equitable treatment for everyone.

You believe that is how it works at Flexjet?

 

[dime line]

You believe that is how it works at Flexjet?

The Flexjet you worked for is no longer

 

[squawk]

The Flexjet you worked for is no longer

It is obvious you do not work for Flexjet

 

[el raton]

The Flexjet you worked for is no longer

Seeings how there were two other investors (that are flexjet costumers) other than DAC who were involved in the aquisition of flexjet, flexjet is more apt to remain the same old flexjet rather than any other companies now under the Onesky umbrella.

I may be wrong, but I don't think KR has the same power he had when FO was under just the DAC umbrella.