Flexjet Falls Short

[Peter_Griffin]

Hey Fraxboy --

I wouldn't have anything to do with my day if you came around to my point of view, so by all means truck on!

I never said anything about being pro-company means anti union -- once again your lack of research is your achilles heel. You are the one assuming the two stances (pro company and pro union) are oppositional and I pointed out that to me they are not. Like I said I am PRO-FLEX therefore I am PRO-UNION.

As far as sensitive info getting out there, I disagree. I have found in the past that the more transparent mananagment has been with info, the more the pilot group has respected the need for it to remain private company business. It's when the communication breaks down that start starts spreading like wildfire over the internet.

By the way, management is not evil, and I've stated on here before very positive things about most of them. I like RH -- and have said so many times. True, I do have a few bones to pick with DG, but maybe it's because of the things he has said about pilots being a dime a dozen and easily replacable. KS, though not my acp but I have dealt with him as FODM on occasion is one of the best guys you will ever have to deal with. Duane is one of the best managers I have ever seen and I'm glad he came over to the 45. I like my job even better as a result of that particular switch, nothing against DP.

FYI, I believe I am being somewhat impartial, though my feet are firmly planted in the pro-union category (and that is a big change for me -- I used to be as anti-union as they come). Just like you I want nothing more than for everyone to be informed of both sides, of all the facts. That way, when OUR union gets voted in victory will be all the more sweet.

 

[GEXDriver]

Flyingdog, you can't be serious! Are you telling me that you have never heard of the "shell game" frequently played by corporations who wish to hide profits. It can be entirely legal, but impossible for a union to track. NJ America is just a piece of the international corporation whose stated goal was expansion. Profit from NJA was used to start and/or subsidize other NJs world wide. During negotiations they finally admitted as much, yet still refused to open those books. What does that tell you? NJA pilots have had the company built on their backs. To add insult to injury, their counterparts in Europe were better compensated than the very pilots who were subsidizing NJE.

Your post is, of course, complete nonsense. If a public company is chartered in the US all of their holdings, both domestic and international, must be reported in their Security and Exchange Commission filings and become a part of the public record.

 

[Guitar Guy]

Your post is, of course, complete nonsense. If a public company is chartered in the US all of their holdings, both domestic and international, must be reported in their Security and Exchange Commission filings and become a part of the public record.

That sounds all good in theory. But consider all of the accounting scandals. Money can be hidden and the trails can be hard to follow. This is partially addressed by Sarbanes-Oxley but even so, it's not always a clear-cut path to follow money around in a company, particularly when that company has other subsidiaries that it moves money to and from. That's why there's a specialty in the accounting field known as "forensic accounting".

NetJets was very happy to open the books to the prior leadership of the NetJets' pilot union local. Naturally, those leaders were untrained in accounting and didn't know where to look or what questions to ask. When 1108 took over and a forensic audit was suggested, the company became unwilling to share the books.

Ask some of the other NetJets people here what a quart of oil is said to cost at the company facility in HPN. "Shell game" is indeed an apt term.

 

[hammer2]

I'm sick and tired of hearing this unsubstantiated statement. (A) prove it and (B) tell me how much of a profit Flexjet made. How do we know for sure that this isn't PR bullsh*t being shoveled out by Flexjet management? SHOW ME THE MONEY!

I guess its not a good time to say anything good about flex. Gfyter we're not shrinking the fleet size. I'm not going to argue even I know nja is a better place.

 

[Stitch626]

To all who are closed minded and think they know all there is to know about unions you are foolish not to even be willing to see / hear all your options. KNOWLEDGE IS POWER! We are breaking new ground in our industry (fractional) being that it's still in it's infancy. The unions of yesterday are not the union of today but the basic rules of life still hold true. UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL! Let us forge our own futures together instead of having it dictated to us without a say in the matter. The questions now are, Are you intelligent enough to gather all the facts not hearsay to be able to make an informed decision? Are you capable of doing your own research and embracing change or are you going sit fat, dumb and happy?
Procrastination is the key to success! Do it and you will fail!

 

[Stitch626]

As I see it Flexjet is all smoke and mirrors!
If a company produces and maintains it's planes along with supplying it's own training to employees the cost is only the bare minimum not what they charge i.e.. Wholesale vs. Retail.
From what I understand the parent company Bombardier charges Flexjet full price and then some for everything! This is hidden profit in that they are taking from one ledger pad and putting it on others so it's harder to see. With the way things are going at Bombardier Flexjet is it's life blood keeping them afloat.