Flexjet Big Day...jan 15th

[SDCFI]

Pension

A question was posed by a NJA friend of mine: how stable is this pension plan? Who's to say Bombardier won't pull the rug out so to speak as soon as they get strapped for cash at some point? I'm thinking it would better long-term to take the extra company match 401(k) and just dump as much money as possible in there. The upside to the pension plan is there's no cost to the employee, so even if they do terminate the plan you're not really losing anything, except possibly the extra match you wouldn't be getting from the new 401(k). So do you gamble on the pension staying and keep it with the "old" 401(k) or dump the pension and take the extra match?

 

[notapilot]

The chart will not format correctly. link to historical inflation rates.

http://www.inflationdata.com/inflation/Inflation_Rate/HistoricalInflation.aspx

 

[notapilot]

We are not talking about $75G/yr pensions. At present the most a 30 yr employee would see is about $40G/yr. It would be nearly impossible for anyone to exceed the maximum benefit provided by the PBGC. I say diversity is the best medicine. An extra 3-7% 401k match ($450-$1000/yr) will take a long time or very high returns to equal $40G/yr until you die. This is unless you get run over by a bus a week after your last flight.

 

[jackpilot]

Can someone please post the new "official" pay scales?

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I would apply if there was a reasonable commute for me (as in Home Basing, MKE, ORD). The basing situation is unworkable for me, and for many others, just like NJA's was.

cliff
YYZ

 

[CaveoFalco]

We are not talking about $75G/yr pensions. At present the most a 30 yr employee would see is about $40G/yr. It would be nearly impossible for anyone to exceed the maximum benefit provided by the PBGC. I say diversity is the best medicine. An extra 3-7% 401k match ($450-$1000/yr) will take a long time or very high returns to equal $40G/yr until you die. This is unless you get run over by a bus a week after your last flight.

Worse yet, what happens if you don't make it to retirement - pension, going, going, gone!

What happens if you have to leave for whatever reason (family crisis, better job, fired) - pension, going, going, gone!

What did UAL get for their pension? Heard it was 10 cents on the dollar.

It might work for you but I like to control my own destiny. For example retiring at 65, cypherin' on a bar napkin with a stubby pencil:

Company match - 7500 at 7% for 30 years = 708,000

Company match (age 50) - 2500 at 7% for 15 years = 62000

Total (Company Match Only) = 770,000
Invested at 5% for 20 years with annuity = 59,000 per year until age 85.

That is only the Company match for comparison.

Personal Contribution - 15000 at 7% for 30 years = 1.4 Million

Personal Contribution (Age 50) - 5000 at 7% for 15 years = 125,000

Total Personal = 1,525,000
Match = 770,000
Total 401K = 2,295,000

Invested at 5% for 20 years with annuity = 175,000 per year until age 85.

Don't make it that far? Whatever you had when you departed is yours including match once vested.

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

Caveo, I have no idea what you're talking about, but with fourteen posts, total, what's your interest in this thread?

 

[Flex-ible]

Pension or 401(k)?

An extra 3-7% 401k match ($450-$1000/yr) will take a long time or very high returns to equal $40G/yr until you die..

Better recheck your math. 7% of 1st year FO pay is $3,920. 7% of top pay is almost 10 grand. PER YEAR.

Without running the numbers, I would guess that for people already vested in the pension it is worth staying. For recent hires, take a real good look at the 401(k). Especially if company $$ continues to vest in 4 years.

 

[On Your Six]

Hi!

I would apply if there was a reasonable commute for me (as in Home Basing, MKE, ORD). The basing situation is unworkable for me, and for many others, just like NJA's was.

cliff
YYZ

That's the problem Cliff. While the pay boost is a good thing and the schedule change to 7/7 offering is now "baseline" for the industry, the domicile issue is the biggest red flag. I agree that Flex management is probably keeping that card for the eventual union negotiations - they don't want to give everything away now.

That's too bad because Flex can now be more competitive for the "best" pilots out there only if those pilots want to restrict themselves to four locations. Not everyone wants to live in those locations. Meanwhile, Netjets, CS and Avantair each offer 20+ domiciles - why can't Flexjet? I bet FLOPS offers more domiciles than Flexjet. Doesn't make a lot of sense unless this is a negotiating tactic...

 

[LaGarbage Man]

Congrats to the Flex crew's, Nice pay raise. Also a Big Shout out to my Ex-Indy Peeps over there. I still need some better base options for me to hit the submit button on the appplication though. I'll keep watching for that IAD base.