Flex what!

[flexO]

Flex food for thought

At Flex you can’t bid on any choice of equipment at initial or after ten years!!!
You may only elect to be bypassed for an upgrade type and that is it!!!
So if you don’t need the money or a Lear type, no matter!!! Even if you want to be an FO to rest of you career!!!
You are placed on an A/C by who you know at the Office!!! And that is the only thing you need!!! Be an exclusive club member!!!

 

[Ben Franklin]

I was penniless when I arrived in Philadelphia at the age of 17.

I got over it.


Sincerely,

B. Franklin

 

[netjetwife]

My favorite quote from that famous American---

We must hang together, gentlemen...else, we shall most assuredly hang separately. Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)
Remember the role Franklin played in our country's history. He wasn't talking about using the good ole boy network. Franklin advocated standing together and fighting for your rights. I'm sure he'd advise the Flex pilots to send in their cards and band together in pursuit of fairness.

 

[hammer2]

Flexoooooo, NJA is still hiring!

 

[temcgrew]

I'm sure he'd advise the Flex pilots to send in their cards and band together in pursuit of fairness.

It would seem more appropriate when putting words in some dead persons mouth, to think of this in context. He didn't inspire men to ban together to "unionize" the colonies to get treated better by the motherland. I think his response would be more to the effect of: if you do not like working for a tyrant company, go start your own!!! Isn't this, in fact, what they did? They did form "a more perfect union" but not like wonderfull union type of brotherhood that we are subjected to today. In my opinion, they are the tyrants more often than not.

 

[gunfyter]

Now Now.... Remember it was UNION soldiers that freed the slaves....

I understand Uncle Ben was in favor of freedom....

And did he not say

“We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately” (Benjamin Franklin).

Standing together.... Thats a Union


Send in the Cards!

 

[Guitar Guy]

UEJ500 - is your comment just a broad-brush statement about unions in general or do you have specific knowledge of 1108? And don't give us the tired old "teamsters are mobsters and only exist to destroy companies" cliche.

The MEC and 1108 membership (yes, the pilots that are the union) have done a lot of good. Even RTS himself has invited our union president to speak to management groups at NJA and RTS has also appeared with our union president to address recurrent ground schools.

Unions can be good or bad. A lot depends on the local leadership and the involvement of the union members themselves. To paint all unions as evil, money-grubbing organizations is not truthful and is an insult to a lot of hard-working, honest people.

 

[gunfyter]

Hang Together, or Hang Separately

Once again NJW hits the mark... Here are the comments of an IT worker in Texas invoking Ben Franklin in the case for unionizing....



http://www.computerworld.com/printthis/2005/0,4814,98947,00.html

 

[temcgrew]

My comments were broad brushed,I have no knowladge of 1108, and I'm not anti-union either, but using Ben Franklins words to raise a banner for unions is just wrong. I know the words "stand together or hang together" can be used with the union mentality, but to say that Franklin would support the cause, is speculation. Those men stood up against tyrants who subjected them to "taxation without representation" so they went about to form a "new government" or a "more perfect union". The term Union here being a seperate government not an entity that forces a contract on the "governing body". They did not want "better treatment" or less taxes or more representation, they wanted to be totally seperate.
My point only is that if you wish to follow Franklin, then seperate yourselves from flexjet and form a "more better fractional". This is what Franklin and the others did.
Use other propoganda for unions and do not take out of context the words of great men.

 

[netjetwife]

UEJ500, at the heart of the matter was Franklin's belief that we should stand up for the right to control our own destiny. Whether those principals are applied to an individual case (such as my family's fight for justice), a company, or a country, the compelling need for action is still the same. To use your analogy of pilots leaving the company for another is incorrect. Franklin didn't advocate Americans immigrating to another country; he supported their right to improve their lot in the country of their birth or choice. One can draw a parallel between taxation without representation and having your insurance premiums increased or your crew meal arrangements changed without your input. If you can make statements about unions that are "broad-brushed", UEJ500, then I can do the same regarding those who fight for their rights and leaders who have upheld those principals.

Gunfyter, you never cease to amaze me with your research and quickness in supporting your position. I'm not surprised to see that others use Franklin's quote in the same context. It is very fitting to the situation and eloquently expressed that common sense motto--there's strength in numbers.

 

[pers-headwall]

At Flex you can’t bid on any choice of equipment at initial or after ten years!!!
You may only elect to be bypassed for an upgrade type and that is it!!!
So if you don’t need the money or a Lear type, no matter!!! Even if you want to be an FO to rest of you career!!!
You are placed on an A/C by who you know at the Office!!!

What are ya' talkin' about? When I was hired I had my coice of Lr31 or 60. I had the choice to transfer to the LR45 or not. My understanding is that the guys upgrading to the CL300/604 are pretty much getting their pick. No, you can't just leave one A/C for another and get a type rating. There are choices though. No, you can't sit on your butt in the right hand seat forever either. Just like many of the Majors. (Yo'Nited excepted with their life time FO's)

 

[temcgrew]

Whether those principals are applied to an individual case (such as my family's fight for justice), a company, or a country, the compelling need for action is still the same

Just what "injustice" is oppressing you? Your husband isn't on here whining. you live in a free country and your husband chose a job, it didn't choose him!! Now you want more out of that company when you knew what you were getting in the first place. Nothing Franklin ever said can support your position. You have every freedom to stand up to the "oppressor" and find another company to "oppress" you. Our founding fathers and Mr. Franklin didn't choose to work for the Mother Country, they were born into it and they most certainly would have hung and died if they lost. The gravity of your situation is much lighter and not anywere comperable to this.

The drama is played out everywere by union types, but it is just an act.

was your husband "oppressed" by out government when he flew F-16's? I don't know of any union there to make life better, you do your time, get paid, and move on. That's why it's called a J-O-B.

 

[gunfyter]

Thats not how capitalism works. Did you ever pay MONOPOLY?

We negotiated what we want and we stay put right where we are.

We built hotels on Boardwalk and Park Place and raise the rent. Now we bid on Marvin Gardens and Illinois Ave.

Don't want to hear managements cry because that is exactly what they do in the marketplace themselves.

Its not personal... its business.

Now you want more out of that company when you knew what you were getting in the first place.

He also knew the promises of management ("Some day this will be the best job in Aviation") and the RULES and that things can change. We made them change.

Managements know the rules they knew what they were getting into.

 

[netjetwife]

When the USAF was losing too many pilots they realized they were underpaying them and starting taking steps to correct the situation. When they sent staff out to the bases to meet with the wives, I had no problem telling them the pay wasn't sufficient and health care needed improvements. Our husbands were deployed in the Middle East at the time.

My ability to identify with those fighting an uphill battle has nothing to do with my husband's career. That is why I have posted that it is a personal fight for justice. It is tied to my brother's suspicious death....since you ask. (read w/sarcasm) Ironically, when I run spell checker it advises me to replace the word Netjetwife with Detective. I have it all on my computer--photos and reports. To the regulars who have posted here awhile, I can only say that shock blinded me briefly but the truth surfaced over the coming months. Now it is a matter of getting the right people to listen. Justice will only be won through my family's efforts. I have a lot of experience in dealing with inept, unconcerned "managers". I know only too well the frustration families feel when they know they're right but are getting a raw deal. So when I've heard all the lies I can stomach...I'm documenting every one...I post here to cheer others on and remind myself that uphill battles for JUSTICE can be won.

When an individual fights for what is right, alone in a personal battle or with others in a group effort, they are digging deep within themselves--just like others who have gone before them in more famous battles. Their words may not be quoted, nonetheless, the principals that compel them to act are the same. UEJ500, my friends on this board understand the gravity of my situation. Your gross assumptions are making you appear foolish and/or heartless. I'll leave it to others to decide. Personally, I think both apply.

To the others that are fighting their own battles: Thanks for sharing in PMs. I wish you luck and hope that you find strength to continue. I don't question where you get it from. I'm just relieved that you are able to. Please keep me posted on your progress. I'll be pulling for you. Last but not least, my heartfelt thanks to those who have offered supportive words. We're fighting on....
L/NJW

 

[Fozzy]

How come some people feel the need to support a group that could care less for them. I guess some people just like being kicked in the nuts.
Maybe they feel like they are seen as equals. Sorry reality check. The rich don't care about you. They would not shead one tear if you their employee died a horrible death. Sad but true. Grow a pair and fight for your future. No one will give it to you.

 

[netjetwife]

Fozzy, you'll exempt those of us unable to fulfill the "growing" part of your injunction, I'm sure. That said, we should all do what we can to help improve the situation. There's a lot to be said for working together. I know my family's investigation has made the progress we have because it's been a team effort.

I have discovered there are a lot of people from all levels of income that can't be bothered to do the right thing and can remain unmoved by the pain/problems of others. Among those groups, I have noticed that some are well-intentioned but clueless to what the trouble is. You can point out the problem only to discover that some of them are too spineless to do anything about it. Then there are those who grasp the situation right away, but can't be bothered to help. The result is the same each time--pain for your family/group. When that happens you have to dig in and speak out. Educate those you can and push back when you have to.

Like the principals that motivate those who fight against various forms of injustice, the forces that oppose us also have common characteristics. They can be easy to spot but harder to fight. These observations have come from both my personal fight for justice and from the NJ contract battle. Your best chance of success comes from standing together with those who share your goals.
Best of Luck!
Netjetwife