First Officer Programs

[Lightheart]

Hi all,

Would anyone please give advice on which FO Programs would be good to consider.

I'm a mature PPL holder (37) and will have my IR/CPL/ME done very shortly and so need to acquire the "right" experience to build up to and beyond 1000 hrs.

Also, am I being realistic that US carriers would consider taking me on at 39/40 (when I've got the experience)?

Thank you in advance for your comments.

 

[wheelsup]

Hi all,

Would anyone please give advice on which FO Programs would be good to consider.

I'm a mature PPL holder (37) and will have my IR/CPL/ME done very shortly and so need to acquire the "right" experience to build up to and beyond 1000 hrs.

http://www.tabexpressinternational.com/home/

This is one of the best FO programs available. Not only does it only cost under $100,000, but you get to fly kingairs and then 1900's when/if the airline ever starts up.

If you're not looking to spend that cash, here's another good one:
http://www.gulfstreamacademy.com/

It's only $30,000 but it will only buy you 250 hours. Plus, you'll have the benefit of gaining that "airline experience" and buying yourself a job and cutting in front of others who actually worked their way up the ladder.

~wheelsup

P.S. A fool and his money...

 

[CUEBOAT]

lightheart you are a whore, and please do not advance past an instrument rating. You have no business in commercial aviation.

 

[T-REX]

OUCH!! But True!

Lightheart I see this is your first post so Ill help you out. There is a search function in the upper right of this website. Search PFT (Pay-for-training), Gulfstream and Tab.
Not only are these programs money-makng scams but you will be labeled a PFTer and may have trouble finding work. PFTers are not liked by most because they are paying to work at jobs that should be occupied by payed pilots.
Save your cash you dont need 1900 time. Finish your ratings, instruct like crazy, fly traffic, banners and you can probably get a regional job in 18 months.
I dont claim to be an expert but feel free to pm (private message) if you have any questions.
Hope this helps you make a more informed decision.

 

[Tater Salad]

Did somebody actually recommend Tab Express?

 

[CapnVegetto]

Purdy sure that was sarcasm.

 

[wrxpilot]

lightheart you are a whore, and please do not advance past an instrument rating. You have no business in commercial aviation.

Nice post. I think it would've been a lot more useful to point him in the right direction and recommend some searching on the FO flight school downfalls (PFT).

 

[Yank McCobb]

Not only are these programs money-makng scams but you will be labeled a PFTer and may have trouble finding work.

Don't believe ANY of the rants and BS you hear on this board about ANY of the "hot" subjects.

One FACT that I am 100% certain of is that once you reach an experience level commensurate with getting hired anywhere beyond the regional level, they could give a rat's a@@ where you got that experience. They could not care less if you went to a "pilot factory", or if you or your daddy or your rich uncle paid for your training or bought you a personal King Air for you to tool around in, or will they care if you came from Mesa.

Your individual personality is what will get you the job. You experience and credentials will get you the interview. Beyond that...NO ONE CARES. Except the pathetic few on this board that will try and convice you otherwise.

For the record, my background is CFI, "commuter" pilot (before the days of PFT) on Metros and Dash 7s, then DC-9s, 727s, and for more years than I can remember, 737s,

 

[cfrey79]

I'll second that

Yank,

I couldn't agree with you more.

 

[Flyin Tony]

How bout a CFI

 

[moxiepilot]

http://www.tabexpressinternational.com/home/

This is one of the best FO programs available. Not only does it only cost under $100,000, but you get to fly kingairs and then 1900's when/if the airline ever starts up.

If you're not looking to spend that cash, here's another good one:
http://www.gulfstreamacademy.com/

surely you are running for the funnyman of the year trophy.
how would you know both are a good program unless you:
a) worked for them or
b) went to them both?

Now since both offer the same type of training I think it is safe to assume you only attended one (if any) and therefore, how would you know the other's program is good?

It's only $30,000 but it will only buy you 250 hours. Plus, you'll have the benefit of gaining that "airline experience" and buying yourself a job and cutting in front of others who actually worked their way up the ladder.

~wheelsup

P.S. A fool and his money...

Lightheart - I'd recommend building your ratings at a normal flight school, instruct then get in somewhere in the future. No matter how old, there is work doing something somewhere. Don't shoot yourself in the foot spending $100 k. It would be more economical to buy a 152 and fly that with $100k - you'd end up with a butt load of hours.

 

[wheelsup]

moxie,

perhaps we should be asking you about Tony And Bob express? hmmm....you seem to know a lot about them in previous posts, a lot about deland airport, and if that avatar is yours, it sure looks like a tab '90 to me...

Looks like you've seen the light and bolted outta there though, good on ya. Were you involved in the lawsuits at all?

To answer your questions, no I haven't worked or attended either place. However, being from ERAU, I know quite a bit about them and know people who have attended both (fortunately, I don't talk to them anymore ).

~wheelsup

 

[moxiepilot]

wheelsup ~

perhaps people might take interest in what i have to say about TAB. *wink wink nudge nudge, know what i mean, eh?*

I realized I made a mistake, but just like getting swindled by a bad car salesman I took my lumps without causing any waves.

Back to the thread though, I wouldn't recommend TAB; I have no knowledge about Gulfstream. There's a great FBO at DAB though, Cloud Dancer Aviation that I fly out of. They have a great first officer program. It's called becoming a CFI They have great people and planes...

 

[Lightheart]

Thanks for responses so far.

Thank you to everyone who's replied so far.

To those who have seen it fit to call me a "whore" , well, perhaps you should know one or two facts. I have sold my home with a view of training to achieve my dream (noone's paying for me). Because of my age and personal circumstances I have been advised by the head of training in my current FBO, my FAA examiner and one Jet Blue captain to seriously consider the FO Program route.

I'm not American. I live in Spain, where a PPL takes on average 7-8 months. At this rate there is no way I could achieve the hours, never mind, twin/turbine time in 18 months. Once qualified I will have to leave the country to look for employment because new pilots over 30 don't get a look in (especially if your Daddy is not Operations Manager or you're not dating the President's daughter). If you're not connected ("tener enchufe" as they say in Spain), forget it.

My flight instructor (as well as many others in my FBO) have tried Banner towing etc route to no avail. I do not like the idea of spending more money to get the experience I need, but if this is my only route, then I'm going to have to sacrifice a home to complete my training (not easy as I want to get married next year). Some of these flight instructors are also going on to "top up" their hours with turbine time at these FO Programs.

After all said and done, if anyone still has a problem with this, then unfortunately, it's THEIR problem. I'm going to do whatever it takes (within reason) to get it done. I am not doing anything to be ashamed of, and being called a "whore" isn't going to change my opinion.

Please keep those suggestions coming in, and safe flying.

 

[Ralgha]

That seat you'll be sitting in at Gulfstream or the like is required by law to be filled by a qualified person. Because of people like you, that seat is filled by customers rather than employees. Because of people like you, other pilots who really need the money get the shaft. Hope you can sleep well at night knowing that you're stealing someone's job.

Walmart would be happy to let you pay to work there, and it would be much less stressful. Why not do that instead? What's the difference? Experience? Ha, whatever, there are a myriad of other ways to gain the experience without taking a dump on your fellow pilots.

 

[sorenk]

It would be more economical to buy a 152 and fly that with $100k - you'd end up with a butt load of hours.

you can't get those all important twin pic hours in a 152.

 

[T-REX]

Very selfish and sounds like you have already made your mind up. If we can't get through to you on why this is ethically wrong lets try financially:

By the tme you are forced to retire in 20 years that 30K-100K would really come in handy.

$30K for 20 yrs @ 10% APR= $189,843
$100K " " = $632,810

Pensions dont exist anymore. How much can you expect to have in your 401K after making 20-35K for the next 5-10 years???

 

[T-REX]

you can't get those all important twin pic hours in a 152.

Dont get any twin pic talking on the radios of a 1900 either!

 

[Lightheart]

I think what we have to accept here is that these FO programs are a dynamic within this industry. It's all about money (and I'd rather not give them mine, believe me). They're not going to go away and whilst they continue then there will always be pilots willing to pay for experience.

When I was in univeristy I was put on work placement (without pay) to gain experience in my chosen field as part of the course. How is that different?

I made my original post in good faith, looking for objective advice, because these FO Programs ARE an option in this industry, like it or not. They are here to stay.

Subjective opinions are not of interest.

 

[Lightheart]

By the way, I've not made up my mind on anything yet.