First Flight Lesson!

[Yank McCobb]

I'm sure Fury would agree with me, I get that magical feeling everytime I throw the throttle to the stops and that rolls royce behind me winds out

 

[bobbysamd]

Instructor maturity

Congratulations on your first flight! However, there are some things that happened with which I have issues, e.g.:

I started the turn and was afraid to whip it into anything more then 10 degrees or so. She said, "Here, watch this" and did a 45 degree steep turn right then and there . . . .

No clearing turns beforehand?

She then said, "Lets stop by this grass strip a friend owns and do a quick fly by." . . . . Here we were, flying down a grass strip at 25 feet level with the trees going 120 KTS in a mini-fighter, nothing can describe the feeling. When we reached the end of the strip she took control and pitched up around 25 degrees and banked at least 30 to the left, what a rush! Afterwards she said, "Sorry, I just had to do that" . . . .

No, she didn't. That is just fine, doing a chandelle from low altitude on a primary student's first lesson.

None of this is your doing. However, whether she realizes it or not, your instructor sets an example for her students. She is a role model. A good instructor does not cowboy the airplane with students aboard, but flies the airplane safely and conservatively. How did she know that you would not get scared? In other words, if your instructor flies like a cowboy(girl) with her students, she should not be surprised if her students take after her in that fashion. That is not the example she should be setting. Not to mention potential Part 91 violations - and not to mention engaging in extraneous activity on your nickel.

The idea is to train safe, competent and responsible pilots, not wannabes for "Top Gun."

Not to rain on your parade, but just a little food for thought. Stay motivated and have fun.

 

[Jon-Kyle Mohr]

No clearing turns beforehand?

We were making a turn to the left, I looked both ways (I seemed to be a caution freak) before making the turn. Since she turned to the right after I had turned 30 degrees, plus the quick look to the right before rolling in to the left turn we were fine. We ended up rolling out of it around 40 degrees past the heading I started my left turn at, and considering that I looked around 45 degrees behind us on the quick look we had more then enough room to spare.

No, she didn't. That is just fine, doing a chandelle from low altitude on a primary student's first lesson.

I know she didn't have to, she was joking around and figured it would be fun. And fun it was!

None of this is your doing. However, whether she realizes it or not, your instructor sets an example for her students. She is a role model. A good instructor does not cowboy the airplane with students aboard, but flies the airplane safely and conservatively. How did she know that you would not get scared? In other words, if your instructor flies like a cowboy(girl) with her students, she should not be surprised if her students take after her in that fashion. That is not the example she should be setting. Not to mention potential Part 91 violations - and not to mention engaging in extraneous activity on your nickel.

How did she know I wasn't scared? My legs weren't wet . In all honesty, I would have told her. I was a bit shocked at the steep turn, but once we were doing it I was fine, it broke the fear I had of going past 10 degrees.

The craziest thing I did myself on the flight was a pretty darn tight pattern (30 degree banks while cutting off crosswind and base) so we could simulate an engine out landing (which also helped break my tenancy to leave power in too long, causing me to balloon like mad).

Extraneous activity? Hardly, it was more of a one hour intro flight then a lesson. I'm happy that it was, as it was great learning how the plane handles so I won't have to worry about that when we are practicing climbing turns, etc..

The idea is to train safe, competent and responsible pilots, not wannabes for "Top Gun."

Exactly, I agree with you. However, who said you can't have a bit 'o fun on the first flight?

Not to rain on your parade, but just a little food for thought. Stay motivated and have fun.

No rain at all, I'm glad you shared your opinions

 

[bobbysamd]

Instructor as responsible role model

That is just fine, doing a chandelle from low altitude on a primary student's first lesson.

I know she didn't have to, she was joking around and figured it would be fun. And fun it was!

Flying is supposed to be fun, but not in that fashion. The point, once more, is a flight instructor sets the example for his/her students. Flight students are impressionable and a flight instructor, like it or not, is a role model. Your description of your low approach to that private field sounded like you two were buzzing it:

We flew it down to around 25 feet and then kicked in full throttle and gradually put the flaps back up.

Here we were, flying down a grass strip at 25 feet level with the trees going 120 KTS . . . . he took control and pitched up around 25 degrees and banked at least 30 to the left . . . .

(emphasis added)

From the way you have described your low pass and the chandelle that followed, you were operating below 500 feet, in apparent violation of 14 CFR 91.119.

It would be different if your instructor wanted to show you a chandelle at a safe altitude, e.g., 3000 feet AGL.

The example that instructors should set is one of safety and regulatory compliance. How much experience does your instructor have? 300 hours? 300 hours or 4565 hours, your instructor should know better.

 

[Jon-Kyle Mohr]

Your description of your low approach to that private field sounded like you two were buzzing it

Might seem like it, but thats not what we were doing. We did an approach to the grass strip, then innitated a go around. If 14 CFR 91.119sdf applies to practicing approaches, where the student has no intention of landing, but rather do an approach, not land, and go around, then I've seen many people violate this FAR. In reality, you can twist any FAR to make something illegal.

It would be different if your instructor wanted to show you a chandelle at a safe altitude, e.g., 3000 feet AGL.

Our initial plan wasn't to do a chandelle, but rather do a go around and head over to Murfreesboro for some touch and goes. It just so happened that it was off to our left and behind us at a pretty good angle, so we did a rather steep turn and continued to climb.

The reason we flew down so low was so we could see a T6 inside the hanger, which was at the end of the runway.

The example that instructors should set is one of safety and regulatory compliance. How much experience does your instructor have? 300 hours? 300 hours or 4565 hours, your instructor should know better.

If all I was worried about was safety and regulatory compliance I would have rather put my money in the bank to save up for law school. I decided to go up flying because its fun. However, to have fun you must follow certian rules (FARS). I understand this concept, and whats done is done.

I don't know exactly how many hours, I didn't bother to ask. However, she has obtained her CFII, and therby has enough experience to teach me how to fly. Thats enough for me, and apperently the FAA, as I know thats quite an accomplishment

Sorry if I came across defensive, I'm trying to explain more in depth what we did and what I gathered from doing it. Thanks for taking the time to read and respond, I've learned a lot, I'll take what I've learned here and apply it to future lessons

 

[2yrs2go]

Jon-Kyle, you rock.



Do not let the negative, picayune (I am old, I can use words like that!) thoughts of other distract you. Aviation is full of people who fly airplanes, fix airplanes, serve drinks and snacks on airplanes and so on. Some love it and seek the most they can get out of it. Some will look for only the negative.



I think a good lesson to be learned here is that this is a public forum with all different perspectives posted by folks from all different kinds of backgrounds. You do not know who is reading your words or from what perspective they might filter those words.



Be careful about the names and locations you post on here (your own, your parents, your instructor, etc). You run the risk of subjecting those whom you post about to the scrutiny of others. There are certain regulatory issues that can get people in very deep trouble. And there are those that will call out those violations, maybe even report them.



Every aviator has had that moment where they were allowed to do something that technically they should not have done. Chose your words carefully for a public forum. Start an email list of close confidants that you can email those events to.

 

[bobbysamd]

Hazardous thought attitudes

Aviation is full of people who fly airplanes, fix airplanes, serve drinks and snacks on airplanes and so on. Some love it and seek the most they can get out of it. Some will look for only the negative . . . .

In this situation, it's not a matter of being negative. It's a matter of being responsible, and safe, and setting the proper example.

Every aviator has had that moment where they were allowed to do something that technically they should not have done . . . .

Take a look at the FAA's Advisory Circular on Aeronautical Decision Making. You'll have to scroll down to get to the Five Hazardous Thought Attitudes. Number one on the list is anti-authority, "Don't tell me what to do." The antidote is, "Follow the Rules, they're usually right."

Read the Five Hazardous Thought Attitudes through. You, too, 2yrs2go. It'll be worth your while.

 

[Jon-Kyle Mohr]

I think a good lesson to be learned here is that this is a public forum with all different perspectives posted by folks from all different kinds of backgrounds. You do not know who is reading your words or from what perspective they might filter those words.

Thats exactly why I posted it here. I wanted to hear others' opinions. I appreciate the time every one took to read and reply

Be careful about the names and locations you post on here (your own, your parents, your instructor, etc). You run the risk of subjecting those whom you post about to the scrutiny of others. There are certain regulatory issues that can get people in very deep trouble. And there are those that will call out those violations, maybe even report them.

I've seen people do this before. A young lad who bummed a ride on a lesson posted on a forum that at the end they pulled around -2Gs and that "stuff flew around the cockpit." Someone from the forum reported it, as he had posted information about his flight school before, and went through a rather tough ordeal. Something happened to the CFI, too.

If I thought we did anything that broke a FAR I wouldn't have posted this. That being said, it appears that if you look at what we did as a "buzz", then you can say we broke a FAR. I looked at it more as a practice approach and a go around, I had control of the aircraft on approach up until the go around. I learned how the aircraft felt with full flaps at a slower speed. We didn't touch down as it was a grass strip, and there is some sort of rule with the flight school that you may not land on grass strips with their aircraft.

Instead of simply climbing straight out and flying the pattern again, we decided to gain some altitude real quick and cut off the crosswind, as there were no planes in the pattern and it was a private strip.

In this situation, it's not a matter of being negative. It's a matter of being responsible, and safe, and setting the proper example.

I agree with you here, and I appreciate you taking the time to point it out. I've learned something new, and will apply it to future flying

Number one on the list is anti-authority, "Don't tell me what to do." The antidote is, "Follow the Rules, they're usually right."

Remember, this was my first lesson, I didn't know the rules..... I have seen MANY, MANY people fly down an airfield at a low altitude going fairly fast. I've even seen this done many times in AOPA's online videos instructing you about how to be a cautious flyer, among other things. Now, if you were over trees or a populated area, I can see what would be wrong. I knew there was a minimum altitude that you should not fly under, but I didn't know this applies to when you are making a approach to an airfield to do a go around, with no intentions of landing there.

Read the Five Hazardous Thought Attitudes through. It'll be worth your while.

I didn't see that part, I ended up clicking the link and reading the whole thing. Great material, thanks a lot for the recommendation! While most of the scenarios were about aircraft malfunctions or bad weather, and not doing a quick pass down a friend's private airfield, the same principles apply to any situation.

Thanks again for taking time out of your day to respond

 

[Standby 1]

It figures...

Congratulations on your first flight! However, there are some things that happened with which I have issues, e.g.: No clearing turns beforehand?No, she didn't. That is just fine, doing a chandelle from low altitude on a primary student's first lesson.

None of this is your doing. However, whether she realizes it or not, your instructor sets an example for her students. She is a role model. A good instructor does not cowboy the airplane with students aboard, but flies the airplane safely and conservatively. How did she know that you would not get scared? In other words, if your instructor flies like a cowboy(girl) with her students, she should not be surprised if her students take after her in that fashion. That is not the example she should be setting. Not to mention potential Part 91 violations - and not to mention engaging in extraneous activity on your nickel.

The idea is to train safe, competent and responsible pilots, not wannabes for "Top Gun."

Not to rain on your parade, but just a little food for thought. Stay motivated and have fun.

As I read the first post in this thread (brought a smile to my face, btw, thanks for posting your experience!!!), it wasn't but about 5 seconds before I just knew someone was going to have to start criticizing the instructorand ruin a perfectly wonderful thread.

If we spent just half as much time minding our own business as we do criticizing everyone else under the sun, the world might just be a bit better place.

Jon-Kyle, thanks for posting your experience. It does many of us a lot of good to remember just why we started flying to begin with. And the advice posted above is sage.....don't put any personal info (especially about your flt school or your CFI) on this board. I look forward to reading more about your future lessons!





.

 

[bobbysamd]

Instructor as PIC

If I thought we did anything that broke a FAR I wouldn't have posted this. That being said, it appears that if you look at what we did as a "buzz", then you can say we broke a FAR . . . .

Remember, this was my first lesson, I didn't know the rules.....

With all due respect, at this point you would not be expected to know the rules, it being your first lesson. Your instructor was pilot-in-command, she is at least a Commercial pilot and is a CFI. She is the one who should know the rules - and should be setting the example.

A great many flight instructors exhibit a lack of responsibility and maturity once they get their tickets, if they had not already. I recall from my FlightSafety days stories of how instructors with students went dogfighting in Seminoles. I recall one instructor at ERAU who was demonstrating an emergency approach and landing to a road and instead of adding power and going around at 500' AGL actually landed! Rumor was that he pulled mixture on the airplane and could not restart the engine. There is enough of this nonsense among some instructors - which is why I posted my comments in the first place.

It's not a matter of minding one's own business, it's a matter of pointing out a problem.