First Flight Lesson!

[Jon-Kyle Mohr]

Well, I finally set up a lesson yesterday for today and didn't know if it would fall through again, so I decided to keep my mouth shut.

But... it didn't! I went up today and the weather was beautiful. Here is the current TAF:

KBNA 042339Z 050024 19008KT P6SM BKN250
FM0400 19006KT P6SM SCT250
FM1400 18013G22KT P6SM BKN250
FM2200 16011G16KT P6SM FEW050 BKN200

My Dad drove me over at around 5:20, the lesson was scheduled for 5:30 and I figured it wouldn't hurt to show up early. I met my instructor, Ingrid, a fresh graduate from MTS and walked out to the DA20 we were going to be flying.

http://meltedpixel.com/flying/images/intro/1.jpg

We did the pre-flight. As we did that I mentioned out some various bits I recognized, and even said "empennage" as the king video insists

We finished that and hoped on in. First thing I noticed in the DA20 were the seats. They were really, really comfy, hah. Compared to a 172, visibility was a little bit less. On the ground the panel went up to around an inch below the horizon.

After noticing the seats... I noticed the lack of a yoke, and rather a stick. Before this I had my mind set that I didn't like sticks one bit, yokes were the way to go. Well, lets just say my opinion changed by the end of the flight. There is nothing like the stick, the DA20 is set up so comfortably. You can relax your hand on your thigh the whole time, and have your hand on the throttle the whole time. I was much more at ease in the Katana then the 172 I flew right seat.

http://meltedpixel.com/flying/images/intro/2.jpg

So we started to taxi and she named all the instruments as we went out. I didn't in at any time and name them, or easy I know, as I didn't wanna seem like a know it all. At first when we started to taxi I had the butterflys and was behind the plane, but as we reached the runway I felt much more comfortable and I was ready to go

http://meltedpixel.com/flying/images/intro/3.jpg
(Photo courtesy of Dad )

We held short for a Lear 45 coming into land, that was rather cool. We were then cleared to taxi into position and hold until the Lear vacated the runway.

That time came, she ligned up and did the take off while I sat tight. First thing that struck me was how much faster this bird excelerated, or seemed to, then the 172. We were off in no time at all.... by no time I mean I called out 44 knots when to rotate by the time we were at 60.

Take off is always a blast, it was great leaving the ground for the first time in around six months. At 400 feet AGL we were cleared to depart the pattern to the east, at this time she gave me the airplane and let me fly.

She said turn east and level off at 3000. She had her hand on the stick the and throttle the whole time, I she didn't have to touch a thing. I overshot 3000 by around 25 feet. The throttle didn't respond as fast as I thought it would, and it felt like I just about had to cut it to get it down to 2200RPM. After that I trimmed us out no problem and flew level at 3k.

First thing she said was, "I'm surprised, I thought I'd have to be flying by now. How many times have you been flying before?" I said that I went up a couple times in a 172 right seat, didn't mention anything about FlightSim, though.

After that she pointed out a mountain to me and said, "Fly there." I started the turn and was afraid to whip it into anything more then 10 degrees or so. She said, "Here, watch this" and did a 45 degree steep turn right then and there. It wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be... in fact, it was pretty darn fun! After that I wasn't afraid to put the stick to use and really use that rudder.

She then said, "Lets stop by this grass strip a friend owns and do a quick fly by." I figured that'd be pretty fun. She cut the throttle and told me to hold 73. I didn't have to do a thing, it was like the plane pitched down by itself and held 73 on its own. I just had to help it every once and a while by using small inputs, no death grip here!

It was hard for me to pick out the grass strip, as in middle TN just about everything looks like one. She asked me to enter a left downwind, I flew the pattern and ligned us up and she kept her hand on the stick the whole time just in case. We flew it down to around 25 feet and then kicked in full throttle and gradually put the flaps back up.

Here we were, flying down a grass strip at 25 feet level with the trees going 120 KTS in a mini-fighter, nothing can describe the feeling. When we reached the end of the strip she took control and pitched up around 25 degrees and banked at least 30 to the left, what a rush! Afterwards she said, "Sorry, I just had to do that " Talk about fun!

I had the airplane mid kamakazee turn and took us back up to 3000. She suggested we hop over to Murfreesboro (KMBT) to do some touch and goes. I turned us to the north and trimmed us out again at 3000.

As we were heading over she asked me if I wanted to fly commercially some day. I said, "Nah, I hear its like a glorified taxi cab driver job. If anything I'd do it 'cause you get to fly the big iron." She simply said something along the lines of, "Yeah, I know what you mean." I don't exactly remember as I was look'n out the windows and just take'n it in.

We made a 45 degree entry to a left down wind for runway 18. We spotted some traffic on crosswind, so we just slowed down a bit to give him some time to get a bit in front of us.

She said as we were abeam the numbers to pull the RPMs back to around 300 and hold 73 knots. I pitched down and turned when she said to, I wasn't sure where exactly the other traffic was and decided to wait.

We were a bit low, and she flew most of the final leg so I could get a feel for how to land. She greased it, of course, and said for me to add full power and put the flaps up. Faster then you can say "rotate" we were in the air again. I did my first take off right there, woohoo! I had no problem holding center line because we were only on the ground for a second, but it still counts!

She let me put fly upwind and turn to downwind, we sorta just skipped crosswind. As we were turning to downwind some punk cut us off, she responded accordingly by flipping him the bird. I was laughing so hard, up till then I was consintrating too much on holding altitude and speed and not having fun. After that I just started to have a ball.

I turned to final, a bit high but still final none the less, and added the last notch of flaps. I had no problem at all ligning up, which I have a really hard time in when flying Flight sim. I always undershoot or over shoot. In "real life" it was automatic, you didn't have to think about it.

 

[Jon-Kyle Mohr]

(said I posted too much the first time, had to make a second post)

I held 60 knots and she said to cut the throttle when we had the runway made. I started the flair way to early. Its hard to judge when you can't see over the panel, she corrected it and put us down perfectly. We went up and around one more time.

This time I lost a little over 50 feet while we were messing around with the GPS. I looked over at the altimeter and said, "Well darn, I just failed my commercial check ride." She laughed and said, "Do you just sit and read the FARS when your bored?"

I lowered RPM to around 400 this time and started out turn. She started to say "When the runway is 45 degrees beh..." I started the turn, she chuckled and said, "I should have figured you knew that." I turned to final and added the last notch of flaps. A bit low this time, darn.... I leveled off until we got the VASI. I then got a bit high, so I just pitched down a bit and lowered the RPMs. When I had the runway made I cut the throttle and started the flair a bit too early, but corrected myself. I remembered reading about how in a tail dragger you lean off to your left a bit so you can see down the runway. Worked like a charm. She made a couple very small corrections, like holding it off a bit longer then I was going to, but in the end it was a mostly-me landing! I didn't count this as a landing I made, as she still helped a bit... but ya know, it was still very cool! Put the flaps back to take off, add full power and off we went again.

This time she asked me if I wanted to fly around a bit more or head back to MQY to do some more touch and goes. I love general flying, but lets face it, landing is fun as heck.

We contacted MQY to see what runway they were using, it was still 19 which is about the farthest away from the flight school as you can get. My Dad was going to grab some shots of the landing, so that was a bit of a bummer.

I flew the pattern, accidentally ligned up on downwind with the wrong runway (hey, they are close in the angle!). After ligning up with the right one (oops) I was fine. I the RPMs abeam the numbers once more, dropped a notch of flaps once we were under 100 knots and turned crosswind. I was so proud of myself, we were right on the VASI turning final. All I had to do was slow to 60 KTS, add the last notch of flaps and trim it out.

We came down to short final and I looked over, she had her hands on her lap, wow! I was actually landing this thing, too cool! We came to short final and I cut power and glided down till I felt it was time to flair. She put her hand on the stick now, but I didn't feel any resistance what so ever, not once. I actually landed a plane, on my first lesson! Heck, we didn't even review the four fundamentals before hand, I'm not sure if you could even call it a lesson, more like a one hour intro flight.

http://meltedpixel.com/flying/images/intro/4.jpg
(Touch and go at MQY)

Too cool, we went up and did the same thing two more times. The second landing I landed on the right main first, quickly followed by the left and then the front. We called tower on crosswind and requested full stop, this was the only bad part of the flight.

By the last time it was automatic, I didn't have to think about what I was doing. I simply recognized where I was, did what I was supposed to do and the plane did what I wanted it to. Very, very easy.

I taxied back, this was the hardest part of the flight. I just couldn't taxi in a straight line for the life of me. Turns were a nightmare. Its a long taxi back to the ramp, and around halfway there I finally remembered to look in front of you, so I leaned off to the side and it wasn't an issue.

I hopped out, almost killed myself missing the step, and told my Dad that I gotta do this again. What a rush, nothing like it in the world. (And NO, there were no flaps above me to bang my head on... haha!)

I had a great time, and it still hasn't set in that I actually landed a plane. I was worried last night about over rotating on take off, let alone landing. On the walk back to the car we noticed that we had been out there for an hour and 18 minutes. We made a pit stop at the flight school and payed a couple more bucks, no problem at all.

http://meltedpixel.com/flying/images/intro/5.jpg
(Sunset right after getting out of the plane)

As we were walking out she mentioned that she'd sign me off to solo next lesson, if I was 16, I just laughed! I guess flight sim really did come in handy, she didn't notice any bad habits. To be quite honest, the only thing I really noticed differently between FS and real life was that you can't feel it in FS. Feel is 90% of flying an airplane VFR, so I'll stick with using FS to learning aircraft operations in airspace and the like.

The only major screw up I made today: I forgot to get a logbook! She asked if I had one, and I said I'd grab one while we were tabbing up the flight, but we started chatting and it slipped my mind. Oh well, no big deal. I think I'll log more then 60 hours between now and the time I hit 17 any way

 

[ShyFlyGuy]

Jon,

How old are you? Congratulations on your first flight. It sounds like you might have rained on her parade when you called airline pilots "glorified bus drivers". Ah well, you're young. It is excellent that you study before your flight and even practice a little on a simulator. Be careful that you don't try "teaching" yourself to fly on a computer. Flying in a real plane is different from a sim in the fact that you cannot chose your own weather, fly through other aircraft, and/or hit the escape button and try again. Where it can help is in the areas you seem to be pretty good at; visual cues, flying the stick, and reading the instruments. I've found that the biggest mistake my students that fly sims a lot is that they spend too much time looking inside the aircraft. Avoid that mistake, and you'll be half-way there. Good luck on your future flights. Let us know how it goes.

Shy

 

[Jon-Kyle Mohr]

ShyFlyGuy, I'm 14 years young. And I didn't mean to rain on her parade when I mentioned the airlines, I mentioned what I heard from a couple of pilots I've met. This being said, their passion of flying commercially was more then likely in the money, and not in the actual flying. I could have worded it a bit differently, but I was caught up in the moment and the first thing that came to mind was the first thing that came out of my mouth

While flying in FS didn't really "teach" me to fly, it definatally helped me. I knew what I had to do to make the plane respond how I wanted to, I didn't really have to think "add right rudder in a right turn" or the like. Reading the instruments was also second nature.

I read about students who flew in FS keeping their head in the 'pit and not outside, so I recognized that problem and fixed it pretty early in the flight. When I got the stick around 400 feet up I was looking at the instruments, as I couldn't see in front of us, but then I noticed that I can see a much wider area, so I picked out where the horizon was on the side of the panel and kept it there by looking outside. Level flight was very easy, I had a bit of a problem leveling off because of my view point, but once I recognized where the horizon should be at 2200RPM I didn't have a problem.

After coming home I hoped on flightsim in the Aerosoft Katana to see what the difference was. Nothing compares to real world flying, and I spotted many flaws with the flight model. I'm going to spend much more time reading about real flying then playing FS.

I can't wait to start moving on to plotting flight plans, crosswind landings, steep turns, etc.. I'm in no real rush though, its just great to be flying!

 

[Flechas]

Congrats!! Good luck with training!

 

[Jon-Kyle Mohr]

Jon... I too started flying at 14, did the whole solo on the 16th b-day, etc. I'm 25 now and flying jets for the Navy... Keep it up and enjoy it, even when it gets frustrating (because it will)!

Bring on the challenges, thats when it gets fun! I love learning new stuff.

Just ONE piece of advice from an experienced CFI's stand point. The only thing better than a motivated student, is one with some natural talent. That CAN be over-shadowed though, by a good student that tries to be one step ahead of the instructor, or knows it all (and maybe not on purpose). It can be frustrating as the instructor! Let her teach, and enjoy the hell out of learning!

It was rather funny, actually. She said she enjoyed sitting in the plane and suggesting where we go. Apart from the first take off, and a couple quick corrections on the first two landings I did all of it. She also mentioned that not every one can fly the way I did on their first lesson, so I definatally have some natural talent. Then again, I had a bit of a head start, as I subscribed to the free six month AOPA student pilot mag trial and red anything and everything on the AOPA site, along with learning procedures and the very basics of how to control a plane in FS.

I was asking a lot of questions, almost too many, and she said simply to enjoy the first flight and get to know the plane. I didn't feel a step in front of the instructor, I felt maybe a couple flights behind! It was a humbling experience, I'll just put it that way. However, I did feel like I was ahead of the airplane in knowing where it was going to go and how I was going to get it where I wanted before it happened. From what I hear, thats a good thing

I'm going to do a bit of work here and grab the Sporty's Private Pilot Kit before the next lesson (which includes a logbook!) I figure that if I learn more on the ground there will be more time for flying in the air, rather then trying to remember how high Class B airspace goes.

 

[Folding_Expert]

The younger, the better dude. I wish I started training more than 10 years ago, and I'm only 25.

 

[2yrs2go]

, I'm 14 years young.

Every aviator on this board should read your post.

I flew my first plane at 39 years old (I am probably older than your father!), and remember having the very same feeling.

It is kind of funny, most of us remember feeling just like Jon-Kyle when we grabbed our first yoke or stick. Yet we get caught up in our training, working and life around aviaition and forget that magical feeling we had the first time we flew a plane.

Thanks Jon-Kyle, and keep up the flying. With your talent, you will most likely get to professional flying position before I do, so remember to have pity on the old man sitting next to you!

 

[Goose Egg]

So, when do we get to see pictures of this Ingrid character?

Props on a cool first flight. I started when I was 15.

-Goose

 

[Jon-Kyle Mohr]

Heheheh... I said frustrating... not challenging. BIIIIIIG difference! I'm SURE avbug will agree with me. You'll find out! Welcome to the club.

You've got me there! Its all part of the learning experience though

I flew my first plane at 39 years old (I am probably older than your father!), and remember having the very same feeling.

It is kind of funny, most of us remember feeling just like Jon-Kyle when we grabbed our first yoke or stick. Yet we get caught up in our training, working and life around aviation and forget that magical feeling we had the first time we flew a plane.

Thanks Jon-Kyle, and keep up the flying. With your talent, you will most likely get to professional flying position before I do, so remember to have pity on the old man sitting next to you!

My father is actually 42 (feel any younger now? ) I really appreciate this post. Whether it is a commercial job or flying in the bush for fun, I hope to be there soon! A high time private pilot mentioned to me after we walked into the flight school, "Sounds to me like the biggest obstacle is going to turning 17 in your training."

So, when do we get to see pictures of this Ingrid character?

How did I know this was coming?

 

[Yank McCobb]

I'm sure Fury would agree with me, I get that magical feeling everytime I throw the throttle to the stops and that rolls royce behind me winds out

 

[bobbysamd]

Instructor maturity

Congratulations on your first flight! However, there are some things that happened with which I have issues, e.g.:

I started the turn and was afraid to whip it into anything more then 10 degrees or so. She said, "Here, watch this" and did a 45 degree steep turn right then and there . . . .

No clearing turns beforehand?

She then said, "Lets stop by this grass strip a friend owns and do a quick fly by." . . . . Here we were, flying down a grass strip at 25 feet level with the trees going 120 KTS in a mini-fighter, nothing can describe the feeling. When we reached the end of the strip she took control and pitched up around 25 degrees and banked at least 30 to the left, what a rush! Afterwards she said, "Sorry, I just had to do that" . . . .

No, she didn't. That is just fine, doing a chandelle from low altitude on a primary student's first lesson.

None of this is your doing. However, whether she realizes it or not, your instructor sets an example for her students. She is a role model. A good instructor does not cowboy the airplane with students aboard, but flies the airplane safely and conservatively. How did she know that you would not get scared? In other words, if your instructor flies like a cowboy(girl) with her students, she should not be surprised if her students take after her in that fashion. That is not the example she should be setting. Not to mention potential Part 91 violations - and not to mention engaging in extraneous activity on your nickel.

The idea is to train safe, competent and responsible pilots, not wannabes for "Top Gun."

Not to rain on your parade, but just a little food for thought. Stay motivated and have fun.

 

[Jon-Kyle Mohr]

No clearing turns beforehand?

We were making a turn to the left, I looked both ways (I seemed to be a caution freak) before making the turn. Since she turned to the right after I had turned 30 degrees, plus the quick look to the right before rolling in to the left turn we were fine. We ended up rolling out of it around 40 degrees past the heading I started my left turn at, and considering that I looked around 45 degrees behind us on the quick look we had more then enough room to spare.

No, she didn't. That is just fine, doing a chandelle from low altitude on a primary student's first lesson.

I know she didn't have to, she was joking around and figured it would be fun. And fun it was!

None of this is your doing. However, whether she realizes it or not, your instructor sets an example for her students. She is a role model. A good instructor does not cowboy the airplane with students aboard, but flies the airplane safely and conservatively. How did she know that you would not get scared? In other words, if your instructor flies like a cowboy(girl) with her students, she should not be surprised if her students take after her in that fashion. That is not the example she should be setting. Not to mention potential Part 91 violations - and not to mention engaging in extraneous activity on your nickel.

How did she know I wasn't scared? My legs weren't wet . In all honesty, I would have told her. I was a bit shocked at the steep turn, but once we were doing it I was fine, it broke the fear I had of going past 10 degrees.

The craziest thing I did myself on the flight was a pretty darn tight pattern (30 degree banks while cutting off crosswind and base) so we could simulate an engine out landing (which also helped break my tenancy to leave power in too long, causing me to balloon like mad).

Extraneous activity? Hardly, it was more of a one hour intro flight then a lesson. I'm happy that it was, as it was great learning how the plane handles so I won't have to worry about that when we are practicing climbing turns, etc..

The idea is to train safe, competent and responsible pilots, not wannabes for "Top Gun."

Exactly, I agree with you. However, who said you can't have a bit 'o fun on the first flight?

Not to rain on your parade, but just a little food for thought. Stay motivated and have fun.

No rain at all, I'm glad you shared your opinions

 

[bobbysamd]

Instructor as responsible role model

That is just fine, doing a chandelle from low altitude on a primary student's first lesson.

I know she didn't have to, she was joking around and figured it would be fun. And fun it was!

Flying is supposed to be fun, but not in that fashion. The point, once more, is a flight instructor sets the example for his/her students. Flight students are impressionable and a flight instructor, like it or not, is a role model. Your description of your low approach to that private field sounded like you two were buzzing it:

We flew it down to around 25 feet and then kicked in full throttle and gradually put the flaps back up.

Here we were, flying down a grass strip at 25 feet level with the trees going 120 KTS . . . . he took control and pitched up around 25 degrees and banked at least 30 to the left . . . .

(emphasis added)

From the way you have described your low pass and the chandelle that followed, you were operating below 500 feet, in apparent violation of 14 CFR 91.119.

It would be different if your instructor wanted to show you a chandelle at a safe altitude, e.g., 3000 feet AGL.

The example that instructors should set is one of safety and regulatory compliance. How much experience does your instructor have? 300 hours? 300 hours or 4565 hours, your instructor should know better.

 

[Jon-Kyle Mohr]

Your description of your low approach to that private field sounded like you two were buzzing it

Might seem like it, but thats not what we were doing. We did an approach to the grass strip, then innitated a go around. If 14 CFR 91.119sdf applies to practicing approaches, where the student has no intention of landing, but rather do an approach, not land, and go around, then I've seen many people violate this FAR. In reality, you can twist any FAR to make something illegal.

It would be different if your instructor wanted to show you a chandelle at a safe altitude, e.g., 3000 feet AGL.

Our initial plan wasn't to do a chandelle, but rather do a go around and head over to Murfreesboro for some touch and goes. It just so happened that it was off to our left and behind us at a pretty good angle, so we did a rather steep turn and continued to climb.

The reason we flew down so low was so we could see a T6 inside the hanger, which was at the end of the runway.

The example that instructors should set is one of safety and regulatory compliance. How much experience does your instructor have? 300 hours? 300 hours or 4565 hours, your instructor should know better.

If all I was worried about was safety and regulatory compliance I would have rather put my money in the bank to save up for law school. I decided to go up flying because its fun. However, to have fun you must follow certian rules (FARS). I understand this concept, and whats done is done.

I don't know exactly how many hours, I didn't bother to ask. However, she has obtained her CFII, and therby has enough experience to teach me how to fly. Thats enough for me, and apperently the FAA, as I know thats quite an accomplishment

Sorry if I came across defensive, I'm trying to explain more in depth what we did and what I gathered from doing it. Thanks for taking the time to read and respond, I've learned a lot, I'll take what I've learned here and apply it to future lessons

 

[2yrs2go]

Jon-Kyle, you rock.



Do not let the negative, picayune (I am old, I can use words like that!) thoughts of other distract you. Aviation is full of people who fly airplanes, fix airplanes, serve drinks and snacks on airplanes and so on. Some love it and seek the most they can get out of it. Some will look for only the negative.



I think a good lesson to be learned here is that this is a public forum with all different perspectives posted by folks from all different kinds of backgrounds. You do not know who is reading your words or from what perspective they might filter those words.



Be careful about the names and locations you post on here (your own, your parents, your instructor, etc). You run the risk of subjecting those whom you post about to the scrutiny of others. There are certain regulatory issues that can get people in very deep trouble. And there are those that will call out those violations, maybe even report them.



Every aviator has had that moment where they were allowed to do something that technically they should not have done. Chose your words carefully for a public forum. Start an email list of close confidants that you can email those events to.

 

[bobbysamd]

Hazardous thought attitudes

Aviation is full of people who fly airplanes, fix airplanes, serve drinks and snacks on airplanes and so on. Some love it and seek the most they can get out of it. Some will look for only the negative . . . .

In this situation, it's not a matter of being negative. It's a matter of being responsible, and safe, and setting the proper example.

Every aviator has had that moment where they were allowed to do something that technically they should not have done . . . .

Take a look at the FAA's Advisory Circular on Aeronautical Decision Making. You'll have to scroll down to get to the Five Hazardous Thought Attitudes. Number one on the list is anti-authority, "Don't tell me what to do." The antidote is, "Follow the Rules, they're usually right."

Read the Five Hazardous Thought Attitudes through. You, too, 2yrs2go. It'll be worth your while.

 

[Jon-Kyle Mohr]

I think a good lesson to be learned here is that this is a public forum with all different perspectives posted by folks from all different kinds of backgrounds. You do not know who is reading your words or from what perspective they might filter those words.

Thats exactly why I posted it here. I wanted to hear others' opinions. I appreciate the time every one took to read and reply

Be careful about the names and locations you post on here (your own, your parents, your instructor, etc). You run the risk of subjecting those whom you post about to the scrutiny of others. There are certain regulatory issues that can get people in very deep trouble. And there are those that will call out those violations, maybe even report them.

I've seen people do this before. A young lad who bummed a ride on a lesson posted on a forum that at the end they pulled around -2Gs and that "stuff flew around the cockpit." Someone from the forum reported it, as he had posted information about his flight school before, and went through a rather tough ordeal. Something happened to the CFI, too.

If I thought we did anything that broke a FAR I wouldn't have posted this. That being said, it appears that if you look at what we did as a "buzz", then you can say we broke a FAR. I looked at it more as a practice approach and a go around, I had control of the aircraft on approach up until the go around. I learned how the aircraft felt with full flaps at a slower speed. We didn't touch down as it was a grass strip, and there is some sort of rule with the flight school that you may not land on grass strips with their aircraft.

Instead of simply climbing straight out and flying the pattern again, we decided to gain some altitude real quick and cut off the crosswind, as there were no planes in the pattern and it was a private strip.

In this situation, it's not a matter of being negative. It's a matter of being responsible, and safe, and setting the proper example.

I agree with you here, and I appreciate you taking the time to point it out. I've learned something new, and will apply it to future flying

Number one on the list is anti-authority, "Don't tell me what to do." The antidote is, "Follow the Rules, they're usually right."

Remember, this was my first lesson, I didn't know the rules..... I have seen MANY, MANY people fly down an airfield at a low altitude going fairly fast. I've even seen this done many times in AOPA's online videos instructing you about how to be a cautious flyer, among other things. Now, if you were over trees or a populated area, I can see what would be wrong. I knew there was a minimum altitude that you should not fly under, but I didn't know this applies to when you are making a approach to an airfield to do a go around, with no intentions of landing there.

Read the Five Hazardous Thought Attitudes through. It'll be worth your while.

I didn't see that part, I ended up clicking the link and reading the whole thing. Great material, thanks a lot for the recommendation! While most of the scenarios were about aircraft malfunctions or bad weather, and not doing a quick pass down a friend's private airfield, the same principles apply to any situation.

Thanks again for taking time out of your day to respond

 

[Standby 1]

It figures...

Congratulations on your first flight! However, there are some things that happened with which I have issues, e.g.: No clearing turns beforehand?No, she didn't. That is just fine, doing a chandelle from low altitude on a primary student's first lesson.

None of this is your doing. However, whether she realizes it or not, your instructor sets an example for her students. She is a role model. A good instructor does not cowboy the airplane with students aboard, but flies the airplane safely and conservatively. How did she know that you would not get scared? In other words, if your instructor flies like a cowboy(girl) with her students, she should not be surprised if her students take after her in that fashion. That is not the example she should be setting. Not to mention potential Part 91 violations - and not to mention engaging in extraneous activity on your nickel.

The idea is to train safe, competent and responsible pilots, not wannabes for "Top Gun."

Not to rain on your parade, but just a little food for thought. Stay motivated and have fun.

As I read the first post in this thread (brought a smile to my face, btw, thanks for posting your experience!!!), it wasn't but about 5 seconds before I just knew someone was going to have to start criticizing the instructorand ruin a perfectly wonderful thread.

If we spent just half as much time minding our own business as we do criticizing everyone else under the sun, the world might just be a bit better place.

Jon-Kyle, thanks for posting your experience. It does many of us a lot of good to remember just why we started flying to begin with. And the advice posted above is sage.....don't put any personal info (especially about your flt school or your CFI) on this board. I look forward to reading more about your future lessons!





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[bobbysamd]

Instructor as PIC

If I thought we did anything that broke a FAR I wouldn't have posted this. That being said, it appears that if you look at what we did as a "buzz", then you can say we broke a FAR . . . .

Remember, this was my first lesson, I didn't know the rules.....

With all due respect, at this point you would not be expected to know the rules, it being your first lesson. Your instructor was pilot-in-command, she is at least a Commercial pilot and is a CFI. She is the one who should know the rules - and should be setting the example.

A great many flight instructors exhibit a lack of responsibility and maturity once they get their tickets, if they had not already. I recall from my FlightSafety days stories of how instructors with students went dogfighting in Seminoles. I recall one instructor at ERAU who was demonstrating an emergency approach and landing to a road and instead of adding power and going around at 500' AGL actually landed! Rumor was that he pulled mixture on the airplane and could not restart the engine. There is enough of this nonsense among some instructors - which is why I posted my comments in the first place.

It's not a matter of minding one's own business, it's a matter of pointing out a problem.

 

[Pedro]

I fully agree with Bobby, what the instructor did is not dangerous at all, BUT it sets an example to her students. They will be more likely to try to do stunts that they are not qualified for.
An example. When I was instructing this guy I know (Commercial pilot, SEL) asked me to teach him how to do spins in his C172SP. I said no problem, we did a ground lesson and went up and did a few spins. Next thing I know the guy is doing loops. Did I teach him that? no, but I showed him how to do something different, he just went ahead and tried something else.
So like Bobby said, an instructor should always be conservative when flying with a student, you never know what you may encourage.

 

[Ailerongirl]

Hey guys, is anyone else impressed with young Jon's grammar, vocab, and unflappability? I know many on this board that wouldn't have kept their cool after being offered constructive critism.

Kudos to you Jon!

 

[bobbysamd]

Hey guys, is anyone else impressed with young Jon's grammar, vocab, and unflappability? I know many on this board that wouldn't have kept their cool after being offered constructive critism.

I agree, he writes very well and expresses himself very well - better than a lot of people I know who are years older than him.

[W]hat the instructor did is not dangerous at all, BUT it sets an example to her students. They will be more likely to try to do stunts that they are not qualified for.
An example. When I was instructing this guy I know (Commercial pilot, SEL) asked me to teach him how to do spins in his C172SP. I said no problem, we did a ground lesson and went up and did a few spins. Next thing I know the guy is doing loops. Did I teach him that? no, but I showed him how to do something different, he just went ahead and tried something else.

Thank you. That is precisely my point. The instructor sets the example. Students aren't altogether dumb or naive; if they see their instructor cowboy the airplane they'll feel they can, also.

One further story to add to Pedro's comments. We had a student at ERAU who looped a 172 during a solo. He returned and landed without incident. However, inspection of the airplane revealed several popped rivets and, if I remember correctly, wrinkled skin. The student was booted from the program. Dunno how or where the student got it into his head to try acro in a 172, but he got the idea from somewhere . . . .

 

[UnAnswerd]

In this situation, it's not a matter of being negative. It's a matter of being responsible, and safe, and setting the proper example.

I'm gonna have to take the minority position, and agree with Bobby. I remember meeting my instructor for the first time, and the subsequent first flight that commenced. The first flight was exciting, but uneventful. He did one touch and go, and the whole thing lasted maybe .5 hours. He didn't fly down to a low altitude and suddenly pull up into a steep climbing turn while spewing forth, "sorry I just had to do that". Try doing that with an examiner on board......

Even with my 8.6 hours, my instructor always makes it a point to emphasize rolling into turns gently, taxiing slow, and being smooth and consistent in everything I do. I remember one time I rolled into a turn very quickly, and he joked, yet was serious, that he wasn't teaching aerobatics....

Every instructor should be like this. Personally, I cannot believe that someone's FIRST FLIGHT would entail aerobatic maneuvers. It may be fun, but that is NOT an indication of an instructor who actually cares about their students.

 

[Jon-Kyle Mohr]

With all due respect, at this point you would not be expected to know the rules, it being your first lesson. Your instructor was pilot-in-command, she is at least a Commercial pilot and is a CFI. She is the one who should know the rules - and should be setting the example.

Not to sound rude, but you have driven the point home.

A great many flight instructors exhibit a lack of responsibility and maturity once they get their tickets, if they had not already. I recall from my FlightSafety days stories of how instructors with students went dogfighting in Seminoles. I recall one instructor at ERAU who was demonstrating an emergency approach and landing to a road and instead of adding power and going around at 500' AGL actually landed! Rumor was that he pulled mixture on the airplane and could not restart the engine. There is enough of this nonsense among some instructors - which is why I posted my comments in the first place.

Exactly, she has been instructing for two months. I'll confront her next lesson about this so she can also learn something.

It's not a matter of minding one's own business, it's a matter of pointing out a problem.

Very well put.

Hey guys, is anyone else impressed with young Jon's grammar, vocab, and unflappability? I know many on this board that wouldn't have kept their cool after being offered constructive critism.

Kudos to you Jon!

Thanks! I figure if I want people to treat me more mature, mine as well act the part

I agree, he writes very well and expresses himself very well - better than a lot of people I know who are years older than him.

Any idiot can turn 18

One further story to add to Pedro's comments. We had a student at ERAU who looped a 172 during a solo. He returned and landed without incident. However, inspection of the airplane revealed several popped rivets and, if I remember correctly, wrinkled skin. The student was booted from the program. Dunno how or where the student got it into his head to try acro in a 172, but he got the idea from somewhere . . . .

A LOOP?! Good lord, people these days. I'm never going to attempt anything like that. Heck, I'm never going to fly down low to the ground (even if its over an airport, as in this case). If I wanted to be 25 feet off the deck I'd climb a tree, I want to fly

I'm gonna have to take the minority position, and agree with Bobby. I remember meeting my instructor for the first time, and the subsequent first flight that commenced. The first flight was exciting, but uneventful. He did one touch and go, and the whole thing lasted maybe .5 hours. He didn't fly down to a low altitude and suddenly pull up into a steep climbing turn while spewing forth, "sorry I just had to do that". Try doing that with an examiner on board......

Point taken.

Even with my 8.6 hours, my instructor always makes it a point to emphasize rolling into turns gently, taxiing slow, and being smooth and consistent in everything I do. I remember one time I rolled into a turn very quickly, and he joked, yet was serious, that he wasn't teaching aerobatics....

After doing that I rolled into turns gently, and was even commented on how smooth I was with controls and using rudder, etc.. Now... taxing, I had no problem being slow, as I was swerving all over the place

Every instructor should be like this. Personally, I cannot believe that someone's FIRST FLIGHT would entail aerobatic maneuvers. It may be fun, but that is NOT an indication of an instructor who actually cares about their students.

Whats done is done, and I won't let what happened effect any future flying.

Like I said, I'll talk to her about it next lesson.

 

[hoop]

An ounce of humble is worth a pound of swagger.....

Jon-Kyle,

Congratulations on your first flight! Although I am not very far ahead of you with about 30hrs and 20 years, I will always remember my first flight and my first solo! There are many stepping stones ahead of us both!

All previous posts aside, I had my @ss handed to me today as my instructor and myself went on my second cross-country. I was flying out of PWA, and FSS briefing indicated all would be ok, except for mod. turbulance at altitude. I've got to actually solo 4 times sightseeing, practicing manuveurs, t&g's etc. So I thought I had almost achieved "pilot" status. 60 miles into the x-c, things went downhill REAL fast......... between the weather, cloud cover, and high winds, dealing with class C airspace, dealing with FSS, getting handed off to FTW FSS, etc. I realized that I know absolutely next to nothing, and the guy next to me with 18,000 hrs in a B-52 just saved my @ss. He's the most easy going fella I know on the ground, but in the plane, he's all business. I've come to realize I have the "right" CFI. I don't always enjoy what he has to say in flight or in post-brief, but he's doing his job. Please don't think I'm trying to damper your enthusiasm by any means, because believe me, I was in your shoes just a several months ago. Heck, I still am!! I've come to learn that these guys DO know what they are talking about, and HAVE been there. I just hope that you and I can accomplish enough in our career to have the judgement that they do. I suppose I'll be a student for life.

Anyway, I really enjoyed your post and enthusiasm, and hopefully we'll both get out of aviation what we are hoping for! I only wish that I had had the foresight and ambition such as yourself when I was your age!

Take care and fly safe!

 

[WizardPilot]

So, when do we get to see pictures of this Ingrid character?

Props on a cool first flight. I started when I was 15.

-Goose

Goose, you sly ol' bird you... We should go chick hunting, over BYU, at 200' agl...(really went on, guy got in trouble, i'll tell the story if you all want) I dont remember if you were married or not! If you aren't lets start up a flight school back here in the good old PVU international and see if we can't recruit some fly hunnies. Kinda like hooter's air, but for training! haah

 

[Jon-Kyle Mohr]

hoop, Thanks a ton for that post! Greatly apprcaited. I'll be a student for life, too. If your not in that mind set your bound to run into problems.

We should go chick hunting, over BYU, at 200' agl...

I don't suggest you do that, you'd be in apparent violation of 14 CFR 91.119.

 

[WizardPilot]

hoop, Thanks a ton for that post! Greatly apprcaited. I'll be a student for life, too. If your not in that mind set your bound to run into problems.


I don't suggest you do that, you'd be in apparent violation of 14 CFR 91.119.

haha, good catch. Yeah, they only slapped this guy on the wrist and said to get more training. The Idiot. Remember when you are flying, you are not only in charge of your own life, but the lives of the countless others you have below you! Don't botch it! Good luck

 

[bobbysamd]

Wiley Post Airport

I was flying out of PWA . . . .

Wiley Post is a great airport from which to fly and the OKC area is a great area in which to train. I learned how to fly there. I'd bet your instructor has already taken you over to Page and Mustang (El Reno), and perhaps over to Sundance. By the time you earn your Private you'll be an expert in crosswind landings.

Later in your training, get your instructor to take you to Downtown Airpark or NE Expressway for two more interesting airports.

Good luck with the rest of your training.