First Flight Lesson!

[2yrs2go]

Jon-Kyle, you rock.



Do not let the negative, picayune (I am old, I can use words like that!) thoughts of other distract you. Aviation is full of people who fly airplanes, fix airplanes, serve drinks and snacks on airplanes and so on. Some love it and seek the most they can get out of it. Some will look for only the negative.



I think a good lesson to be learned here is that this is a public forum with all different perspectives posted by folks from all different kinds of backgrounds. You do not know who is reading your words or from what perspective they might filter those words.



Be careful about the names and locations you post on here (your own, your parents, your instructor, etc). You run the risk of subjecting those whom you post about to the scrutiny of others. There are certain regulatory issues that can get people in very deep trouble. And there are those that will call out those violations, maybe even report them.



Every aviator has had that moment where they were allowed to do something that technically they should not have done. Chose your words carefully for a public forum. Start an email list of close confidants that you can email those events to.

 

[bobbysamd]

Hazardous thought attitudes

Aviation is full of people who fly airplanes, fix airplanes, serve drinks and snacks on airplanes and so on. Some love it and seek the most they can get out of it. Some will look for only the negative . . . .

In this situation, it's not a matter of being negative. It's a matter of being responsible, and safe, and setting the proper example.

Every aviator has had that moment where they were allowed to do something that technically they should not have done . . . .

Take a look at the FAA's Advisory Circular on Aeronautical Decision Making. You'll have to scroll down to get to the Five Hazardous Thought Attitudes. Number one on the list is anti-authority, "Don't tell me what to do." The antidote is, "Follow the Rules, they're usually right."

Read the Five Hazardous Thought Attitudes through. You, too, 2yrs2go. It'll be worth your while.

 

[Jon-Kyle Mohr]

I think a good lesson to be learned here is that this is a public forum with all different perspectives posted by folks from all different kinds of backgrounds. You do not know who is reading your words or from what perspective they might filter those words.

Thats exactly why I posted it here. I wanted to hear others' opinions. I appreciate the time every one took to read and reply

Be careful about the names and locations you post on here (your own, your parents, your instructor, etc). You run the risk of subjecting those whom you post about to the scrutiny of others. There are certain regulatory issues that can get people in very deep trouble. And there are those that will call out those violations, maybe even report them.

I've seen people do this before. A young lad who bummed a ride on a lesson posted on a forum that at the end they pulled around -2Gs and that "stuff flew around the cockpit." Someone from the forum reported it, as he had posted information about his flight school before, and went through a rather tough ordeal. Something happened to the CFI, too.

If I thought we did anything that broke a FAR I wouldn't have posted this. That being said, it appears that if you look at what we did as a "buzz", then you can say we broke a FAR. I looked at it more as a practice approach and a go around, I had control of the aircraft on approach up until the go around. I learned how the aircraft felt with full flaps at a slower speed. We didn't touch down as it was a grass strip, and there is some sort of rule with the flight school that you may not land on grass strips with their aircraft.

Instead of simply climbing straight out and flying the pattern again, we decided to gain some altitude real quick and cut off the crosswind, as there were no planes in the pattern and it was a private strip.

In this situation, it's not a matter of being negative. It's a matter of being responsible, and safe, and setting the proper example.

I agree with you here, and I appreciate you taking the time to point it out. I've learned something new, and will apply it to future flying

Number one on the list is anti-authority, "Don't tell me what to do." The antidote is, "Follow the Rules, they're usually right."

Remember, this was my first lesson, I didn't know the rules..... I have seen MANY, MANY people fly down an airfield at a low altitude going fairly fast. I've even seen this done many times in AOPA's online videos instructing you about how to be a cautious flyer, among other things. Now, if you were over trees or a populated area, I can see what would be wrong. I knew there was a minimum altitude that you should not fly under, but I didn't know this applies to when you are making a approach to an airfield to do a go around, with no intentions of landing there.

Read the Five Hazardous Thought Attitudes through. It'll be worth your while.

I didn't see that part, I ended up clicking the link and reading the whole thing. Great material, thanks a lot for the recommendation! While most of the scenarios were about aircraft malfunctions or bad weather, and not doing a quick pass down a friend's private airfield, the same principles apply to any situation.

Thanks again for taking time out of your day to respond

 

[Standby 1]

It figures...

Congratulations on your first flight! However, there are some things that happened with which I have issues, e.g.: No clearing turns beforehand?No, she didn't. That is just fine, doing a chandelle from low altitude on a primary student's first lesson.

None of this is your doing. However, whether she realizes it or not, your instructor sets an example for her students. She is a role model. A good instructor does not cowboy the airplane with students aboard, but flies the airplane safely and conservatively. How did she know that you would not get scared? In other words, if your instructor flies like a cowboy(girl) with her students, she should not be surprised if her students take after her in that fashion. That is not the example she should be setting. Not to mention potential Part 91 violations - and not to mention engaging in extraneous activity on your nickel.

The idea is to train safe, competent and responsible pilots, not wannabes for "Top Gun."

Not to rain on your parade, but just a little food for thought. Stay motivated and have fun.

As I read the first post in this thread (brought a smile to my face, btw, thanks for posting your experience!!!), it wasn't but about 5 seconds before I just knew someone was going to have to start criticizing the instructorand ruin a perfectly wonderful thread.

If we spent just half as much time minding our own business as we do criticizing everyone else under the sun, the world might just be a bit better place.

Jon-Kyle, thanks for posting your experience. It does many of us a lot of good to remember just why we started flying to begin with. And the advice posted above is sage.....don't put any personal info (especially about your flt school or your CFI) on this board. I look forward to reading more about your future lessons!





.

 

[bobbysamd]

Instructor as PIC

If I thought we did anything that broke a FAR I wouldn't have posted this. That being said, it appears that if you look at what we did as a "buzz", then you can say we broke a FAR . . . .

Remember, this was my first lesson, I didn't know the rules.....

With all due respect, at this point you would not be expected to know the rules, it being your first lesson. Your instructor was pilot-in-command, she is at least a Commercial pilot and is a CFI. She is the one who should know the rules - and should be setting the example.

A great many flight instructors exhibit a lack of responsibility and maturity once they get their tickets, if they had not already. I recall from my FlightSafety days stories of how instructors with students went dogfighting in Seminoles. I recall one instructor at ERAU who was demonstrating an emergency approach and landing to a road and instead of adding power and going around at 500' AGL actually landed! Rumor was that he pulled mixture on the airplane and could not restart the engine. There is enough of this nonsense among some instructors - which is why I posted my comments in the first place.

It's not a matter of minding one's own business, it's a matter of pointing out a problem.

 

[Pedro]

I fully agree with Bobby, what the instructor did is not dangerous at all, BUT it sets an example to her students. They will be more likely to try to do stunts that they are not qualified for.
An example. When I was instructing this guy I know (Commercial pilot, SEL) asked me to teach him how to do spins in his C172SP. I said no problem, we did a ground lesson and went up and did a few spins. Next thing I know the guy is doing loops. Did I teach him that? no, but I showed him how to do something different, he just went ahead and tried something else.
So like Bobby said, an instructor should always be conservative when flying with a student, you never know what you may encourage.

 

[Ailerongirl]

Hey guys, is anyone else impressed with young Jon's grammar, vocab, and unflappability? I know many on this board that wouldn't have kept their cool after being offered constructive critism.

Kudos to you Jon!

 

[bobbysamd]

Hey guys, is anyone else impressed with young Jon's grammar, vocab, and unflappability? I know many on this board that wouldn't have kept their cool after being offered constructive critism.

I agree, he writes very well and expresses himself very well - better than a lot of people I know who are years older than him.

[W]hat the instructor did is not dangerous at all, BUT it sets an example to her students. They will be more likely to try to do stunts that they are not qualified for.
An example. When I was instructing this guy I know (Commercial pilot, SEL) asked me to teach him how to do spins in his C172SP. I said no problem, we did a ground lesson and went up and did a few spins. Next thing I know the guy is doing loops. Did I teach him that? no, but I showed him how to do something different, he just went ahead and tried something else.

Thank you. That is precisely my point. The instructor sets the example. Students aren't altogether dumb or naive; if they see their instructor cowboy the airplane they'll feel they can, also.

One further story to add to Pedro's comments. We had a student at ERAU who looped a 172 during a solo. He returned and landed without incident. However, inspection of the airplane revealed several popped rivets and, if I remember correctly, wrinkled skin. The student was booted from the program. Dunno how or where the student got it into his head to try acro in a 172, but he got the idea from somewhere . . . .

 

[UnAnswerd]

In this situation, it's not a matter of being negative. It's a matter of being responsible, and safe, and setting the proper example.

I'm gonna have to take the minority position, and agree with Bobby. I remember meeting my instructor for the first time, and the subsequent first flight that commenced. The first flight was exciting, but uneventful. He did one touch and go, and the whole thing lasted maybe .5 hours. He didn't fly down to a low altitude and suddenly pull up into a steep climbing turn while spewing forth, "sorry I just had to do that". Try doing that with an examiner on board......

Even with my 8.6 hours, my instructor always makes it a point to emphasize rolling into turns gently, taxiing slow, and being smooth and consistent in everything I do. I remember one time I rolled into a turn very quickly, and he joked, yet was serious, that he wasn't teaching aerobatics....

Every instructor should be like this. Personally, I cannot believe that someone's FIRST FLIGHT would entail aerobatic maneuvers. It may be fun, but that is NOT an indication of an instructor who actually cares about their students.

 

[Jon-Kyle Mohr]

With all due respect, at this point you would not be expected to know the rules, it being your first lesson. Your instructor was pilot-in-command, she is at least a Commercial pilot and is a CFI. She is the one who should know the rules - and should be setting the example.

Not to sound rude, but you have driven the point home.

A great many flight instructors exhibit a lack of responsibility and maturity once they get their tickets, if they had not already. I recall from my FlightSafety days stories of how instructors with students went dogfighting in Seminoles. I recall one instructor at ERAU who was demonstrating an emergency approach and landing to a road and instead of adding power and going around at 500' AGL actually landed! Rumor was that he pulled mixture on the airplane and could not restart the engine. There is enough of this nonsense among some instructors - which is why I posted my comments in the first place.

Exactly, she has been instructing for two months. I'll confront her next lesson about this so she can also learn something.

It's not a matter of minding one's own business, it's a matter of pointing out a problem.

Very well put.

Hey guys, is anyone else impressed with young Jon's grammar, vocab, and unflappability? I know many on this board that wouldn't have kept their cool after being offered constructive critism.

Kudos to you Jon!

Thanks! I figure if I want people to treat me more mature, mine as well act the part

I agree, he writes very well and expresses himself very well - better than a lot of people I know who are years older than him.

Any idiot can turn 18

One further story to add to Pedro's comments. We had a student at ERAU who looped a 172 during a solo. He returned and landed without incident. However, inspection of the airplane revealed several popped rivets and, if I remember correctly, wrinkled skin. The student was booted from the program. Dunno how or where the student got it into his head to try acro in a 172, but he got the idea from somewhere . . . .

A LOOP?! Good lord, people these days. I'm never going to attempt anything like that. Heck, I'm never going to fly down low to the ground (even if its over an airport, as in this case). If I wanted to be 25 feet off the deck I'd climb a tree, I want to fly

I'm gonna have to take the minority position, and agree with Bobby. I remember meeting my instructor for the first time, and the subsequent first flight that commenced. The first flight was exciting, but uneventful. He did one touch and go, and the whole thing lasted maybe .5 hours. He didn't fly down to a low altitude and suddenly pull up into a steep climbing turn while spewing forth, "sorry I just had to do that". Try doing that with an examiner on board......

Point taken.

Even with my 8.6 hours, my instructor always makes it a point to emphasize rolling into turns gently, taxiing slow, and being smooth and consistent in everything I do. I remember one time I rolled into a turn very quickly, and he joked, yet was serious, that he wasn't teaching aerobatics....

After doing that I rolled into turns gently, and was even commented on how smooth I was with controls and using rudder, etc.. Now... taxing, I had no problem being slow, as I was swerving all over the place

Every instructor should be like this. Personally, I cannot believe that someone's FIRST FLIGHT would entail aerobatic maneuvers. It may be fun, but that is NOT an indication of an instructor who actually cares about their students.

Whats done is done, and I won't let what happened effect any future flying.

Like I said, I'll talk to her about it next lesson.

 

[hoop]

An ounce of humble is worth a pound of swagger.....

Jon-Kyle,

Congratulations on your first flight! Although I am not very far ahead of you with about 30hrs and 20 years, I will always remember my first flight and my first solo! There are many stepping stones ahead of us both!

All previous posts aside, I had my @ss handed to me today as my instructor and myself went on my second cross-country. I was flying out of PWA, and FSS briefing indicated all would be ok, except for mod. turbulance at altitude. I've got to actually solo 4 times sightseeing, practicing manuveurs, t&g's etc. So I thought I had almost achieved "pilot" status. 60 miles into the x-c, things went downhill REAL fast......... between the weather, cloud cover, and high winds, dealing with class C airspace, dealing with FSS, getting handed off to FTW FSS, etc. I realized that I know absolutely next to nothing, and the guy next to me with 18,000 hrs in a B-52 just saved my @ss. He's the most easy going fella I know on the ground, but in the plane, he's all business. I've come to realize I have the "right" CFI. I don't always enjoy what he has to say in flight or in post-brief, but he's doing his job. Please don't think I'm trying to damper your enthusiasm by any means, because believe me, I was in your shoes just a several months ago. Heck, I still am!! I've come to learn that these guys DO know what they are talking about, and HAVE been there. I just hope that you and I can accomplish enough in our career to have the judgement that they do. I suppose I'll be a student for life.

Anyway, I really enjoyed your post and enthusiasm, and hopefully we'll both get out of aviation what we are hoping for! I only wish that I had had the foresight and ambition such as yourself when I was your age!

Take care and fly safe!

 

[WizardPilot]

So, when do we get to see pictures of this Ingrid character?

Props on a cool first flight. I started when I was 15.

-Goose

Goose, you sly ol' bird you... We should go chick hunting, over BYU, at 200' agl...(really went on, guy got in trouble, i'll tell the story if you all want) I dont remember if you were married or not! If you aren't lets start up a flight school back here in the good old PVU international and see if we can't recruit some fly hunnies. Kinda like hooter's air, but for training! haah

 

[Jon-Kyle Mohr]

hoop, Thanks a ton for that post! Greatly apprcaited. I'll be a student for life, too. If your not in that mind set your bound to run into problems.

We should go chick hunting, over BYU, at 200' agl...

I don't suggest you do that, you'd be in apparent violation of 14 CFR 91.119.

 

[WizardPilot]

hoop, Thanks a ton for that post! Greatly apprcaited. I'll be a student for life, too. If your not in that mind set your bound to run into problems.


I don't suggest you do that, you'd be in apparent violation of 14 CFR 91.119.

haha, good catch. Yeah, they only slapped this guy on the wrist and said to get more training. The Idiot. Remember when you are flying, you are not only in charge of your own life, but the lives of the countless others you have below you! Don't botch it! Good luck

 

[bobbysamd]

Wiley Post Airport

I was flying out of PWA . . . .

Wiley Post is a great airport from which to fly and the OKC area is a great area in which to train. I learned how to fly there. I'd bet your instructor has already taken you over to Page and Mustang (El Reno), and perhaps over to Sundance. By the time you earn your Private you'll be an expert in crosswind landings.

Later in your training, get your instructor to take you to Downtown Airpark or NE Expressway for two more interesting airports.

Good luck with the rest of your training.