First CFI job - Need assistance

[PA-44Typed]

TAKE IT!!! Unless you feel that its not a safe operation!! Jobs for low timers don’t grow on trees! Like I said if the maintenance is good and they promote a safe working environment TAKE IT!!!!!!!
~PA-44Typed

 

[bobbysamd]

12-hour days

gizbug
If you are putting in twelve hour days, it does not matter if it is ground or flying, you are only making about 9 buck an hour.

Perhaps . . . but I worked plenty of twelve-hour, and longer, days when I was working. Twelve-hour days are commonplace in a busy flight school - and you want your school to be busy, or else you don't work, and you don't make money.

I worked plenty of seven-day weeks and it didn't kill me, but a pleasant work environment is important. There was a time when I worked seven-day weeks for a place that I loathed because of how I was treated. I liked my students just fine but I resented the psychology of working at a place I hated seven days a week. Having said that, no matter how much you love what you're doing, you need at least one day off a week to give yourself a chance to recoup.

Once more, look at the overall picture. I would not turn down the job strictly because it doesn't offer health (if it doesn't). You can always maintain your current health insurance under COBRA if you leave your current job, although it could cost you. Or else, you can sign up at an HMO like Kaiser for a reasonable amount.

I also reiterate my earlier comments and those that followed. Aviation jobs never grow on trees, even during good times. Take it from someone who really does know. You should think seriously about accepting the offer.

 

[BoDEAN]

gizbug
If you are putting in twelve hour days, it does not matter if it is ground or flying, you are only making about 9 buck an hour. That is awful pay for a flight instructor. True 27,000 a year is not bad, but if you work that many hours you might want to kill yourself, and then 27,000 does not seem like that much.

I think one of two things are happening here.
1. Either you are pulling our leg
2. Your perspective boss is lying to you

My bet is on number one.

I had one phone conversation with him. It lasted 15 min. He told me he was interested in hiring me, and wanted to know when I could come out. I said next Friday. He said "My partner averaged about 27,000 dollars a year." How is that pulling your leg? I will have more detail next Friday on the in's and out's

 

[Geigo]

Gizbug,

Some more things to think about if you end up being an independent contractor verses an employee.

As a contractor not only will you be required to find your own insurance (deductible for taxes) but you will also be paying all of the employement taxes yourself verses half if you were an employee. Get used to saving money to make quarterly estimated tax payments.

Also a very big one is unemployment insurance. If you are a contractor and the school goes belly up for whatever reason you will not be eligible for unemployment unless you paid into the pool.

Good luck with the interview. I had a ball instructing. There were a couple that I didn't want to fly with (one I didn't) and it was hard work, but probably one of the most rewarding experiences in my flying.

 

[BoDEAN]

Thanks. I'll keep everyone posted.

 

[BoDEAN]

Tomorrow is my day to shine. I meet with the guy at the airport at 10am.

Thanks to all who have helped come up with some questions to ask. If you have anymore, please let me know now =P

I'll let you all know how it turns out.

 

[bobbysamd]

Questions for the interviewer

How long do people stay?

Opportunities for advancement?

Most important: "When can I start?"

Finally, ask for the job.

Good luck with your interview.

 

[Timebuilder]

Give it your best shot.

I know at least one old instructor who is hoping you do well.



Maybe I'll get to play a pilot on Hack...

 

[JJJ]

-USAF Flight screening program prep course

How does this work?

 

[bobbysamd]

USAF Flight Screening

I know most of this but maybe some AF types who went through the program can also jump in and explain further.

The Air Force has had a flight program in which it screened candidates for flight training. There was a program at the Air Force Academy as well as a contract program at Hondo, Texas. The candidates were screened to see if they had an aptitude for flying. Potential UPT candidates were given a certain number of hours of instruction by military instructor pilots in T-41s, which are the AF and Army versions of 172s; the primary difference being that T-41s were powered by 210 hp Continentals instead of Lycomings. The ones who had aptitude were sent on to UPT.

I recall last fall that ERAU was advertising for instructors and training managers to operate the pilot screening program at the Academy. I recommended it as a good instructing gig for someone who wants to work with intelligent, motivated students. I have had AF personnel as students, and found them to be that way.

As you can well imagine, competition for UPT slots is intense, hence, the need for a prep program. I don't know the details of the program at Gizbug's potential employer's, but I'm sure it is aimed strictly at AF personnel who want to get into UPT.

 

[BoDEAN]

Well....I'm back with an update.
Here are the details.

Start at $25 / hr, move up to $30 / hr after first month.
I would be an independant contractor with him, meaning I have to pay my own insurance. He has about 150 students now between him and I, and he does a ground school every 6 weeks two nights a week. He said I would pocket all of that, and he charges 100 dollars for the ground school.

I would have some GREAT responsibilities. He would expect me to do some maintenance on the planes (ie. oil change, change tires, etc). I would have to keep track of the 100 hr's on all 4 planes, and when they are up for 100 hr, fly them 40 miles away to another airport for them to have maintenance. Most of his students are private pilot candidates.

Basically, students go to a website, schedule a plane and if him or I are out there...we fly with them. So it is more than just a "CFI" job. He wants me to basically be a Chief Flight Instructor, and maintain the place. What an opportunity for a "first cfi job!"

So right now I am a little overwhelmed, with all the tasks. But I am sure I will adapt over time. I guess being a first timer here in the "CFI" world I am a tad nervous with the demands on me. But I know I will do well, once my "nervousness" goes away.

He teaches out of GLIEM. He has the whole Gliem kit, and thats what he uses for lesson plans. He didn't like my general private pilot knowledge today (ie. airspace on sectional, vfr minimums, ways to enter at a non-controlled field). I guess I was nervous, and he wants to give me a mock private private checkride next week. I am not use to flying into and out of an uncontrolled field.

Any comments?

 

[labbats]

Ginzbug,

If you're the same person who posted on ILSapproach.com, why not start with those suggestions? If you aren't, well, there's a red flag for you, because a week ago, someone asked the same questions on another board. My suggestion then is the same as now. You're getting snowed. Call the old flight instructor and find out what is really going on. The owner you spoke with is misleading you. I repeat, HE IS NOT TELLING THE WHOLE STORY. Find out from the one guy that knows and is impartial. The old instructor.

Best of luck regardless~

 

[BoDEAN]

Being a chief flight instructor = being snowed? please explain

 

[siucavflight]

gizbug,
i do not want to sem like such a pessimist but this job sounds way to good to be true. Espically for someone who has no experience flight instructing, a chief instructor job? Even after he realized that your knowledge of airspace and ability to enter a uncontrolled airport was weak. Something just does not seem right, if he asks for you to sign any papers with him, bring them to a lawyer and ask his opinion. If everything that he told you is true then take the job without question and know that you have at least one fellow instructor on here who is very envious.

 

[bobbysamd]

Hmmmmm . . . . . .

I would be an independant contractor with him, meaning I have to pay my own insurance . . . .

. . . . as well as not having some rights that you ordinarily would have as a normal employee. I hate to be one who always looks at things with a jaundiced eye, but let's be practical. If your employment were to be terminated your rights to such things as unemployment insurance may not be as clear-cut as if you were a normal employee. Also, your right to use Workers' Comp insurance may not be clear-cut.

I would have some GREAT responsibilities. He would expect me to do some maintenance on the planes (ie. oil change, change tires, etc). I would have to keep track of the 100 hr's on all 4 planes, and when they are up for 100 hr, fly them 40 miles away to another airport for them to have maintenance.

Do you have any maintenance experience and/or an A & P? Not that you necessarily need either to change tires to change oil. You can learn how to change oil. I cannot remember if an A & P is required to inspect and/or sign off the safety wiring for the oil filter and/or drain plug or the cotter pin on the wheel hub . . . I don't think that is required. I recall that private pilots or better can perform certain types of maintenance on aircraft, e.g. tire changes and oil changes, but they cannot do such things as dress out nicks on props without an A & P's supervision.

So it is more than just a "CFI" job. He wants me to basically be a Chief Flight Instructor, and maintain the place. What an opportunity for a "first cfi job!"

. . . . and also an opportunity to be used and abused, cheated and lied to. On the other hand, you won't be making this job your career.

I also don't like how he wants to give you a mock private ride when you are already a flight instructor. Here he is, all hot to hire you, but is questioning your quals.

(By the way, it may not be a bad idea to bone up on airspace if your knowledge is weak. Airspace knowledge is very important, especially these days with TFRs, etc. popping up everywhere, not to mention the risk of busting a Class B.)

Something isn't sounding right here. I agree with the others; there's more here than meets the eye. Try to find out why your predecessor left before you commit.