flyingwildfires
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2003
- Posts
- 65
Welcome to Flightinfo.com
- Register now and join the discussion
- Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
- Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
- Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
- Share the passion for aviation
- Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun
Fires......
- Thread starter flyingwildfires
- Start date
- Watchers 6
Welcome to Flightinfo.com
- Register now and join the discussion
- Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
- Invite your friends
- Share the passion of aviation
- Friendliest aviation community on the web
Fr8DoggyStyle
Active member
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2002
- Posts
- 38
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2003
- Posts
- 1,178
flyingwildfires
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2003
- Posts
- 65
TFRs and forest fires
Well, the TFRs are great.... IF people would just stay out of them. I've had three near-midairs in my life: one with a student in the pattern eons ago when another guy (behind us) invented his own pattern, and then two more on fires -- one from an airplane who just decided that somehow the TFRs didn't apply to him -- he was even inventive enough to announce his altitude as OVER the top of the TFR, then went sailing by just underneath me in the heavy smoke approximately 4,000 feet lower than he'd reported. I turned him in and he had home gone home to Canada that day so they dropped it. The other guy was much, much closer -- the guy in trail behind me reported it as about 20 FEET -- and I guess he just had to come in to take a closer look at this little teeny fire we were working.
So -- like I said -- if you see smoke, PLEASE assume there will be some kind of air traffic coming and going.... thanks. I would really rather limit the sound of crunching aluminum to when we add to the pile of beer cans after we call it a day.
Well, the TFRs are great.... IF people would just stay out of them. I've had three near-midairs in my life: one with a student in the pattern eons ago when another guy (behind us) invented his own pattern, and then two more on fires -- one from an airplane who just decided that somehow the TFRs didn't apply to him -- he was even inventive enough to announce his altitude as OVER the top of the TFR, then went sailing by just underneath me in the heavy smoke approximately 4,000 feet lower than he'd reported. I turned him in and he had home gone home to Canada that day so they dropped it. The other guy was much, much closer -- the guy in trail behind me reported it as about 20 FEET -- and I guess he just had to come in to take a closer look at this little teeny fire we were working.
So -- like I said -- if you see smoke, PLEASE assume there will be some kind of air traffic coming and going.... thanks. I would really rather limit the sound of crunching aluminum to when we add to the pile of beer cans after we call it a day.
True story. The closest call I had was several years ago on a fire near Big Sur, in California. I was climbing off the fire after a drop in a Herc (T-130), and passed a Brasillia in United Express colors close enough to see that the left seater was wearing Outdoorsman II sunglasses. We were well inside the TFR.
I don't think the Brasillia crew ever saw us. We were in heavy smoke.
Many times, a TFR doesn't get established until the fire is well established. The problem is for those of us flying initial attack on the fire: well-meaning folks have this innate need to go fly over the fire, putting us all in danger.
I've had brightsparks in 185's try to drop down and fly off my wingtip when I'm doing drops. I've seen lives put in jeopardy and property and homes lost when we had to suspend fire operations until Mr. Hero decided to leave. I've had to escort airplanes out while flying air attack, and then follow up to see that enforcement action was taken for their trouble.
Sometimes a TFR isn't established. It's not uncommon following a fast moving thunderstorm to have a number of smokes reported. We may get launched IA to start dealing with each smoke. While we do try to look out for traffic, we're focused on our mission, which is putting the wet stuff on the red stuff...we don't need folks milling around down there in our way. It's dangerous, in an environment which already ranks as among the most dangerous to be had, period.
Don't rely on the TFR. If you're already in flight when the TFR is issued, you may not know about it. Simply because you haven't received a report of a TFR, don't assume you can go near a fire. One may or may not be in place, but it's best to make a general determination about the fire from a distance, and report it.
Large smokes are seldom in need of reporting. It's the small single tree burns that need to be reported, in order to catch them when they're small. If you are in a position to do so, try to report with either a lat/long, or a radial/distance. Approximating it is okay, because responding ground and air assets will be looking for the smoke too...all you need to do is give general information to get someone headed in the right direction.
When giving a smoke report, try to give the color of the smoke, the size of the fire (remembering that a section, as in section lines, equals a mile, and holds 640 acres...fire size can be deceiving, wind direction, and what the smoke is doing. Is it rising up, laying down, forming a column, puffing, alternating white and black, is it blue, etc. All useful information for determining what to send, and how to deal with the fire. Also include it's proximity to houses or people, a quick note on topography (on the side of a hill, moving upslope with wind, back of a ridge, burning into a rocky outcropping, against a lake, etc). Anything that could be useful.
You can pass it on to ATC or to FSS via flightwatch, and it will get to the right authorities. In this way, you can provide a valueable service, and still steer well clear...its best for everyone, and you're doing the community a big favor.
I don't think the Brasillia crew ever saw us. We were in heavy smoke.
Many times, a TFR doesn't get established until the fire is well established. The problem is for those of us flying initial attack on the fire: well-meaning folks have this innate need to go fly over the fire, putting us all in danger.
I've had brightsparks in 185's try to drop down and fly off my wingtip when I'm doing drops. I've seen lives put in jeopardy and property and homes lost when we had to suspend fire operations until Mr. Hero decided to leave. I've had to escort airplanes out while flying air attack, and then follow up to see that enforcement action was taken for their trouble.
Sometimes a TFR isn't established. It's not uncommon following a fast moving thunderstorm to have a number of smokes reported. We may get launched IA to start dealing with each smoke. While we do try to look out for traffic, we're focused on our mission, which is putting the wet stuff on the red stuff...we don't need folks milling around down there in our way. It's dangerous, in an environment which already ranks as among the most dangerous to be had, period.
Don't rely on the TFR. If you're already in flight when the TFR is issued, you may not know about it. Simply because you haven't received a report of a TFR, don't assume you can go near a fire. One may or may not be in place, but it's best to make a general determination about the fire from a distance, and report it.
Large smokes are seldom in need of reporting. It's the small single tree burns that need to be reported, in order to catch them when they're small. If you are in a position to do so, try to report with either a lat/long, or a radial/distance. Approximating it is okay, because responding ground and air assets will be looking for the smoke too...all you need to do is give general information to get someone headed in the right direction.
When giving a smoke report, try to give the color of the smoke, the size of the fire (remembering that a section, as in section lines, equals a mile, and holds 640 acres...fire size can be deceiving, wind direction, and what the smoke is doing. Is it rising up, laying down, forming a column, puffing, alternating white and black, is it blue, etc. All useful information for determining what to send, and how to deal with the fire. Also include it's proximity to houses or people, a quick note on topography (on the side of a hill, moving upslope with wind, back of a ridge, burning into a rocky outcropping, against a lake, etc). Anything that could be useful.
You can pass it on to ATC or to FSS via flightwatch, and it will get to the right authorities. In this way, you can provide a valueable service, and still steer well clear...its best for everyone, and you're doing the community a big favor.
flyingwildfires
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2003
- Posts
- 65
DC4boy
addicted user
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2002
- Posts
- 221
I have already had three near-misses in my short career.
One that sticks out was on the Rodeo fire. 400,000 acres and a big TFR. We were dropping in one of the towns when a home owner in his 172 cut right in front of the lead on short final.
Lead 33, I think it was, gave him a rashing, and the guy gave him his n# and where he was going. He didnt think he did anything wrong. Amazing!
Hey Bug, what's new in SEAT world??
One that sticks out was on the Rodeo fire. 400,000 acres and a big TFR. We were dropping in one of the towns when a home owner in his 172 cut right in front of the lead on short final.
Lead 33, I think it was, gave him a rashing, and the guy gave him his n# and where he was going. He didnt think he did anything wrong. Amazing!
Hey Bug, what's new in SEAT world??
The latest craze for safety is repainting the fleet. Mine was bright yellow last year, and it shocked me to death that everybody said they couldn't see me. The new game plan is red and white...follow in the footsteps of aerounion, I guess. I clambered about in a turbine doug the other day that just got painted in the same scheme...pretty sharp for a doug.
flyingwildfires
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2003
- Posts
- 65
Paint schemes
Hey avbug, whose turbine Doug is that with that paint job? I could swear i saw it over Boise a few weeks back, thought it was one of AU's tankers at first but then realized it was the Doug... have been wondering ever since.
I'm surprised you were hard to see being bright yellow but sometimes it sure is hard. Of all the color schemes I think Aerounion's works best just because of the unusual diagonals and having the big blocks of color like that. I sure love pulse lights on everyone, they help a lot even when guys are still far out. Surprisingly enough, sometimes black machines show up well, have seen a few black helicopters and they seem easy to pick out. Like Donald Trump's old (Vertol I think?) named "Oprah"???? When I asked why they called her that over the radio (okay, so I fell for it), the pilot answered back, "Because she's big, black and making money"....... and she showed up fine.
Hey avbug, whose turbine Doug is that with that paint job? I could swear i saw it over Boise a few weeks back, thought it was one of AU's tankers at first but then realized it was the Doug... have been wondering ever since.
I'm surprised you were hard to see being bright yellow but sometimes it sure is hard. Of all the color schemes I think Aerounion's works best just because of the unusual diagonals and having the big blocks of color like that. I sure love pulse lights on everyone, they help a lot even when guys are still far out. Surprisingly enough, sometimes black machines show up well, have seen a few black helicopters and they seem easy to pick out. Like Donald Trump's old (Vertol I think?) named "Oprah"???? When I asked why they called her that over the radio (okay, so I fell for it), the pilot answered back, "Because she's big, black and making money"....... and she showed up fine.
Dan CFI/CFII
I'm a dippidy doer
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2001
- Posts
- 347
Always rumors on the E model hercs, but they would be no different than the A's...if new herc's are going to get used, they need to be J models, and that's not going to happen. E models would last a few seasons, and then shed a wing, too.
The problem isn't the engine upgrade, it's the wing.
You must be flying for Aeroflite? How's Mr. Kidneyless?
The doug was out of OGD; it's based there, USFS. It was on an administrative run. Met a jump buddy who's transitioning from the Baron to the doug...more barons going to their graves in the wake of political fallout from last year, and he's moving to the dark side.
The problem isn't the engine upgrade, it's the wing.
You must be flying for Aeroflite? How's Mr. Kidneyless?
The doug was out of OGD; it's based there, USFS. It was on an administrative run. Met a jump buddy who's transitioning from the Baron to the doug...more barons going to their graves in the wake of political fallout from last year, and he's moving to the dark side.
ceo_of_the_sofa
Registered User
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2002
- Posts
- 618
DC4boy
addicted user
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2002
- Posts
- 221
Kidneyless is doing well. Lot going on down there.
Still no word on start dates, or even carding for that matter.
E's are no better than A's, huh? Whats the new model? Is it H or J?
When I first started, lot of seasoned guy's told me not to even walk under the wing of a herc. Shame cuz it sounds like they were a favorite among airtanker pilots.
We had a cut open section of a 4 wing at training, and man what a wing. The trailing edge spar (one of three) was thicker than most main spars on aircraft i've seen
Slap a couple Garrets on her and you got yourself one hell of an airtanker!!
Still no word on start dates, or even carding for that matter.
E's are no better than A's, huh? Whats the new model? Is it H or J?
When I first started, lot of seasoned guy's told me not to even walk under the wing of a herc. Shame cuz it sounds like they were a favorite among airtanker pilots.
We had a cut open section of a 4 wing at training, and man what a wing. The trailing edge spar (one of three) was thicker than most main spars on aircraft i've seen
Slap a couple Garrets on her and you got yourself one hell of an airtanker!!
USFS was never talking about AH-1's. The Forida Department of Forestry got some over the past few years, and they're working (most sitting). All for longline work.
avbug is not flyingwildfires. I only post under one name, here.
I don't know about putting garrets on the -4; the best upgrade was to go to the super DC-4.
Some serious work was done to make a conversion on the P-2 which would have put Allison T-56's on her. The prototype even went to a glass cockpit. However, lack of funding (and powerplants) stalled the project a long time ago, and there she sits. Personally, I think that's the most promising advent for heavy tankers right now.
The herc was a wonderful airplane to fly, from a tanker trash perspective. It was smooth, quiet, light on the controls, and had ample performance when working in tight, rough terrain. The addition of a third crewmember (FE) was welcome, too.
One DC4 this year had 56 cracks in the spar, on inspection. The upcoming year still appears to be one big question mark.
avbug is not flyingwildfires. I only post under one name, here.
I don't know about putting garrets on the -4; the best upgrade was to go to the super DC-4.
Some serious work was done to make a conversion on the P-2 which would have put Allison T-56's on her. The prototype even went to a glass cockpit. However, lack of funding (and powerplants) stalled the project a long time ago, and there she sits. Personally, I think that's the most promising advent for heavy tankers right now.
The herc was a wonderful airplane to fly, from a tanker trash perspective. It was smooth, quiet, light on the controls, and had ample performance when working in tight, rough terrain. The addition of a third crewmember (FE) was welcome, too.
One DC4 this year had 56 cracks in the spar, on inspection. The upcoming year still appears to be one big question mark.
414Flyer
Down with Chemtrails!
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2002
- Posts
- 4,948
I did either read about it somewhere possibly but I was told it was seriously being looked at by USFS. The ATGS I flew with mentioned it.
What they were thinking of doing what getting about 20 older AH-1, and putting together a few flyable ones from those airframes, to use as someone of a combination Air attack/lead role.
I think it was mentioned on the air tanker message board too, but then it could just all be rumors too.
What they were thinking of doing what getting about 20 older AH-1, and putting together a few flyable ones from those airframes, to use as someone of a combination Air attack/lead role.
I think it was mentioned on the air tanker message board too, but then it could just all be rumors too.
Share this page
Latest resources
-
-
-
-
-
AC 90-89C - Amateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing HandbookAmateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing Handbook
- Neal
- Updated:
