flyingwildfires
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Fires......
- Thread starter flyingwildfires
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Fr8DoggyStyle
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flyingwildfires
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TFRs and forest fires
Well, the TFRs are great.... IF people would just stay out of them. I've had three near-midairs in my life: one with a student in the pattern eons ago when another guy (behind us) invented his own pattern, and then two more on fires -- one from an airplane who just decided that somehow the TFRs didn't apply to him -- he was even inventive enough to announce his altitude as OVER the top of the TFR, then went sailing by just underneath me in the heavy smoke approximately 4,000 feet lower than he'd reported. I turned him in and he had home gone home to Canada that day so they dropped it. The other guy was much, much closer -- the guy in trail behind me reported it as about 20 FEET -- and I guess he just had to come in to take a closer look at this little teeny fire we were working.
So -- like I said -- if you see smoke, PLEASE assume there will be some kind of air traffic coming and going.... thanks. I would really rather limit the sound of crunching aluminum to when we add to the pile of beer cans after we call it a day.
Well, the TFRs are great.... IF people would just stay out of them. I've had three near-midairs in my life: one with a student in the pattern eons ago when another guy (behind us) invented his own pattern, and then two more on fires -- one from an airplane who just decided that somehow the TFRs didn't apply to him -- he was even inventive enough to announce his altitude as OVER the top of the TFR, then went sailing by just underneath me in the heavy smoke approximately 4,000 feet lower than he'd reported. I turned him in and he had home gone home to Canada that day so they dropped it. The other guy was much, much closer -- the guy in trail behind me reported it as about 20 FEET -- and I guess he just had to come in to take a closer look at this little teeny fire we were working.
So -- like I said -- if you see smoke, PLEASE assume there will be some kind of air traffic coming and going.... thanks. I would really rather limit the sound of crunching aluminum to when we add to the pile of beer cans after we call it a day.
True story. The closest call I had was several years ago on a fire near Big Sur, in California. I was climbing off the fire after a drop in a Herc (T-130), and passed a Brasillia in United Express colors close enough to see that the left seater was wearing Outdoorsman II sunglasses. We were well inside the TFR.
I don't think the Brasillia crew ever saw us. We were in heavy smoke.
Many times, a TFR doesn't get established until the fire is well established. The problem is for those of us flying initial attack on the fire: well-meaning folks have this innate need to go fly over the fire, putting us all in danger.
I've had brightsparks in 185's try to drop down and fly off my wingtip when I'm doing drops. I've seen lives put in jeopardy and property and homes lost when we had to suspend fire operations until Mr. Hero decided to leave. I've had to escort airplanes out while flying air attack, and then follow up to see that enforcement action was taken for their trouble.
Sometimes a TFR isn't established. It's not uncommon following a fast moving thunderstorm to have a number of smokes reported. We may get launched IA to start dealing with each smoke. While we do try to look out for traffic, we're focused on our mission, which is putting the wet stuff on the red stuff...we don't need folks milling around down there in our way. It's dangerous, in an environment which already ranks as among the most dangerous to be had, period.
Don't rely on the TFR. If you're already in flight when the TFR is issued, you may not know about it. Simply because you haven't received a report of a TFR, don't assume you can go near a fire. One may or may not be in place, but it's best to make a general determination about the fire from a distance, and report it.
Large smokes are seldom in need of reporting. It's the small single tree burns that need to be reported, in order to catch them when they're small. If you are in a position to do so, try to report with either a lat/long, or a radial/distance. Approximating it is okay, because responding ground and air assets will be looking for the smoke too...all you need to do is give general information to get someone headed in the right direction.
When giving a smoke report, try to give the color of the smoke, the size of the fire (remembering that a section, as in section lines, equals a mile, and holds 640 acres...fire size can be deceiving, wind direction, and what the smoke is doing. Is it rising up, laying down, forming a column, puffing, alternating white and black, is it blue, etc. All useful information for determining what to send, and how to deal with the fire. Also include it's proximity to houses or people, a quick note on topography (on the side of a hill, moving upslope with wind, back of a ridge, burning into a rocky outcropping, against a lake, etc). Anything that could be useful.
You can pass it on to ATC or to FSS via flightwatch, and it will get to the right authorities. In this way, you can provide a valueable service, and still steer well clear...its best for everyone, and you're doing the community a big favor.
I don't think the Brasillia crew ever saw us. We were in heavy smoke.
Many times, a TFR doesn't get established until the fire is well established. The problem is for those of us flying initial attack on the fire: well-meaning folks have this innate need to go fly over the fire, putting us all in danger.
I've had brightsparks in 185's try to drop down and fly off my wingtip when I'm doing drops. I've seen lives put in jeopardy and property and homes lost when we had to suspend fire operations until Mr. Hero decided to leave. I've had to escort airplanes out while flying air attack, and then follow up to see that enforcement action was taken for their trouble.
Sometimes a TFR isn't established. It's not uncommon following a fast moving thunderstorm to have a number of smokes reported. We may get launched IA to start dealing with each smoke. While we do try to look out for traffic, we're focused on our mission, which is putting the wet stuff on the red stuff...we don't need folks milling around down there in our way. It's dangerous, in an environment which already ranks as among the most dangerous to be had, period.
Don't rely on the TFR. If you're already in flight when the TFR is issued, you may not know about it. Simply because you haven't received a report of a TFR, don't assume you can go near a fire. One may or may not be in place, but it's best to make a general determination about the fire from a distance, and report it.
Large smokes are seldom in need of reporting. It's the small single tree burns that need to be reported, in order to catch them when they're small. If you are in a position to do so, try to report with either a lat/long, or a radial/distance. Approximating it is okay, because responding ground and air assets will be looking for the smoke too...all you need to do is give general information to get someone headed in the right direction.
When giving a smoke report, try to give the color of the smoke, the size of the fire (remembering that a section, as in section lines, equals a mile, and holds 640 acres...fire size can be deceiving, wind direction, and what the smoke is doing. Is it rising up, laying down, forming a column, puffing, alternating white and black, is it blue, etc. All useful information for determining what to send, and how to deal with the fire. Also include it's proximity to houses or people, a quick note on topography (on the side of a hill, moving upslope with wind, back of a ridge, burning into a rocky outcropping, against a lake, etc). Anything that could be useful.
You can pass it on to ATC or to FSS via flightwatch, and it will get to the right authorities. In this way, you can provide a valueable service, and still steer well clear...its best for everyone, and you're doing the community a big favor.
flyingwildfires
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DC4boy
addicted user
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- Mar 21, 2002
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I have already had three near-misses in my short career.
One that sticks out was on the Rodeo fire. 400,000 acres and a big TFR. We were dropping in one of the towns when a home owner in his 172 cut right in front of the lead on short final.
Lead 33, I think it was, gave him a rashing, and the guy gave him his n# and where he was going. He didnt think he did anything wrong. Amazing!
Hey Bug, what's new in SEAT world??
One that sticks out was on the Rodeo fire. 400,000 acres and a big TFR. We were dropping in one of the towns when a home owner in his 172 cut right in front of the lead on short final.
Lead 33, I think it was, gave him a rashing, and the guy gave him his n# and where he was going. He didnt think he did anything wrong. Amazing!
Hey Bug, what's new in SEAT world??
The latest craze for safety is repainting the fleet. Mine was bright yellow last year, and it shocked me to death that everybody said they couldn't see me. The new game plan is red and white...follow in the footsteps of aerounion, I guess. I clambered about in a turbine doug the other day that just got painted in the same scheme...pretty sharp for a doug.
flyingwildfires
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Paint schemes
Hey avbug, whose turbine Doug is that with that paint job? I could swear i saw it over Boise a few weeks back, thought it was one of AU's tankers at first but then realized it was the Doug... have been wondering ever since.
I'm surprised you were hard to see being bright yellow but sometimes it sure is hard. Of all the color schemes I think Aerounion's works best just because of the unusual diagonals and having the big blocks of color like that. I sure love pulse lights on everyone, they help a lot even when guys are still far out. Surprisingly enough, sometimes black machines show up well, have seen a few black helicopters and they seem easy to pick out. Like Donald Trump's old (Vertol I think?) named "Oprah"???? When I asked why they called her that over the radio (okay, so I fell for it), the pilot answered back, "Because she's big, black and making money"....... and she showed up fine.
Hey avbug, whose turbine Doug is that with that paint job? I could swear i saw it over Boise a few weeks back, thought it was one of AU's tankers at first but then realized it was the Doug... have been wondering ever since.
I'm surprised you were hard to see being bright yellow but sometimes it sure is hard. Of all the color schemes I think Aerounion's works best just because of the unusual diagonals and having the big blocks of color like that. I sure love pulse lights on everyone, they help a lot even when guys are still far out. Surprisingly enough, sometimes black machines show up well, have seen a few black helicopters and they seem easy to pick out. Like Donald Trump's old (Vertol I think?) named "Oprah"???? When I asked why they called her that over the radio (okay, so I fell for it), the pilot answered back, "Because she's big, black and making money"....... and she showed up fine.
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