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Max Powers

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Turbulent times for pilots

Peter Passi Duluth News Tribune
Published Monday, August 20, 2007




You can add a looming pilot shortage to the laundry list of challenges facing U.S. airlines.Unless the nation starts churning out more commercial pilots, airlines could confront a shortfall of 30,000 qualified cockpit positions by 2017.
That’s according to a preliminary report issued recently by Fltops.com, an online information service for active and aspiring professional pilots. The forecast, published in Aviation Week & Space Technology, is based on current flight training levels, anticipated retirements and the Federal Aviation Administration’s growth projections. function photoFull (URL) { day = new Date(); id = day.getTime(); eval("page" + id + " = window.open(URL, '" + id + "', 'toolbar=0,scrollbars=0,location=0,statusbar=0,menubar=0,resizable=0,width=510,height=510,left = 137,top = 84');"); }

Ross Schumacher, a flight instructor at Twin Ports Flying Service, checks out an itinerary with Craig Samborski (back), who was working with Schumacher on getting his pilot instrument rating. [BOB KING/NEWS TRIBUNE] RELATED CONTENT

site_doc.gif
Peter Passi Archive
Competition for newly qualified commercial pilots already has heated up, according to Kent Lovelace, a professor of aviation and chairman of the University of North Dakota’s aerospace department, one of the largest trainers of commercial pilots in the nation.“We’ve had about 10 different airlines out here, hiring on campus this year. And most of them have been coming back every six weeks or so,” he said.
Lovelace said would-be employers have become increasingly aggressive, offering signing bonuses and extending job offers contingent upon students successfully completing their aviation studies. Other carriers have offered their existing employees bonuses for referrals that result in the hiring of new pilots.
“I’ve been working here since 1980, and I’ve never before seen this level of recruiting activity,” Lovelace said.
But the career path for young pilots remains rocky. Just ask Andrew Johnson, a Duluth native now flying CRJ200s, 700s and 900s for SkyWest Airlines in Chicago. During this, his first year with the company, he expects to pull down less than $20,000 in pay.
“I don’t know many people who make less than I do,” said Johnson, who also operates a painting business on the side. He said that many of his pilot colleagues work second jobs to make ends meet.
BURDENSOME DEBTS
The low pay is even more difficult to bear, considering the debts aspiring pilots incur to become qualified for commercial jobs.
Lovelace said it’s not unusual for a pilot to invest $100,000 in training before landing an airline job. Many people enter the profession shouldering hefty debts.
In contrast, many more airline pilots used to enter the field following military flying careers. They received most of their training on Uncle Sam’s dime.
Lovelace said that up until the 1980s, about 75 percent of new airline pilot hires came from the military, and the remainder came from civilian training programs. Just the opposite is true today, he said.
“The military has downsized so dramatically since the end of the Cold War and the fall of the Iron Curtain, it has really dried up as a source of pilots,” Lovelace said.
Given the changing scene, he contends that young people need more of a financial incentive to pursue careers as commercial airline pilots. He pointed out that often graduates can make more flying cargo or working in the corporate aviation arena than they can working for regional airlines.
“There’s no way around it; regional carriers are going to have to up their pay,” Lovelace said.
“PAYING YOUR DUES”
For most pilots, working at a regional carrier remains a necessary precursor to winning a job at a major national airline.
“It’s seen as paying your dues,” said Johnson, who said he still aspires to one day fly larger aircraft for a major airline. First, however, Johnson acknowledges he probably will need to become a captain at SkyWest and log at least 1,000 hours in that role to make it to the big leagues.
Wade Blaufuss, a first officer flying Boeing 757s for Northwest Airlines, said the payoff for pilots who made it to the major airlines used to be more rewarding than it is now. In the past few years, Blaufuss said that he and other pilots at Northwest have seen their wages cut by about 38 percent, as the airline restructured through bankruptcy.
A beginning pilot at Northwest now earns $30,000 to $35,000, and the pay scale tops out at about $180,000 for a captain of a Boeing 747 with 30-plus years of experience, according to Blaufuss. He said the pay reflects the training, experience, responsibility and skill required to safely fly such an aircraft.
Twelve years ago, when he was starting at Northwest, Blaufuss said his career held much more appeal. Airline pilots’ wages aren’t the only thing that has taken a hit. Blaufuss said less stringent work rules have led to more time away from home.
“If it were me, and I was back in college today, I wouldn’t choose this career again,” Blaufuss said. “The daily grind of the job seems to be designed for a bachelor with no life outside of work.”
Northwest Airlines has struggled to maintain its schedule with a leaner stable of pilots on the payrolls. After a spate of canceled flights and delays, the airline announced on July 24 that it planned to hire 250 to 350 more pilots within the coming year.
So far, Northwest has had no difficulty attracting job candidates. In just two weeks’ time, the airline was flooded with more than 1,400 applications.
Northwest’s regional airline affiliates also are hiring. Mesaba Airlines has received 1,400 applications for 695 positions it’s trying to fill. Meanwhile Compass Airlines has received 1,300 applications for 360 pilot openings.
“We’re pleased with the response we’ve received,” said Roman Blahoski, a spokesman for Northwest, adding: “I think we have a good pool of candidates with lots of flying experience.”
GREATER CHALLENGE
Airlines have yet to face their greatest challenge, as increasing numbers of pilots reach retirement age. The Federal Aviation Administration projects that the nation’s supply of pilots with commercial licenses will drop to about 119,000 by the end of this year — nearly 6 percent fewer aviators than five years ago.
Lovelace offered little bright news, when it comes to young people entering the profession, either. He noted that the number of students enrolled in commercial pilot programs at UND dropped by 12 percent from 2002 to 2006.
As many of the nation’s largest airlines filed for bankruptcy in recent years, Lovelace said many students came to view the industry as too volatile. He said the public failed to recognize the growing opportunities for pilots flying cargo, corporate aircraft and for nontraditional carriers.
Despite tough times, the desire to fly large commercial aircraft continues to motivate many young aviators.
Ross Schumacher, 20, works as a flight instructor for Twin Ports Flying Service in Superior, building his flight hours in hopes of landing a job at a small regional carrier in the near future. His dream is to fly a large commercial jet.
Although his family has remained supportive of his career goals, Schumacher said many others have tried to convince him to change course.
“A lot of people have tried to discourage me,” he said.
But Schumacher can imagine no better job than flying for a living.
“It goes back to the basics,” he said. “Flying is my passion. And at the end of the day, it’s important to love what you do.”
PETER PASSI covers business and development. He can be reached
 
They fail to point out that the 1300 applying at Compass and the 1400 at Mesaba are likely largely the same applicants. They make it sound like there are 2,700 applicants for about 1050 jobs when the truth is probably closer to 1,500 for 1050.
 
They fail to point out that the 1300 applying at Compass and the 1400 at Mesaba are likely largely the same applicants. They make it sound like there are 2,700 applicants for about 1050 jobs when the truth is probably closer to 1,500 for 1050.


also not all are qualified.
 
They fail to point out that the 1300 applying at Compass and the 1400 at Mesaba are likely largely the same applicants. They make it sound like there are 2,700 applicants for about 1050 jobs when the truth is probably closer to 1,500 for 1050.

same thing at the majors. UAL was touting the fact that over 1000 people applied to them in the first week. I am sure those 1000 have also applied to every other major, plus the cargo airlines, plus the big national airlines.
 
Turbulent times for pilots

Peter Passi Duluth News Tribune
Published Monday, August 20, 2007



You can add a looming pilot shortage to the laundry list of challenges facing U.S. airlines.Unless the nation starts churning out more commercial pilots, airlines could confront a shortfall of 30,000 qualified cockpit positions by 2017.
That’s according to a preliminary report issued recently by Fltops.com, an online information service for active and aspiring professional pilots. The forecast, published in Aviation Week & Space Technology, is based on current flight training levels, anticipated retirements and the Federal Aviation Administration’s growth projections. function photoFull (URL) { day = new Date(); id = day.getTime(); eval("page" + id + " = window.open(URL, '" + id + "', 'toolbar=0,scrollbars=0,location=0,statusbar=0,menubar=0,resizable=0,width=510,height=510,left = 137,top = 84');"); }

Ross Schumacher, a flight instructor at Twin Ports Flying Service, checks out an itinerary with Craig Samborski (back), who was working with Schumacher on getting his pilot instrument rating. [BOB KING/NEWS TRIBUNE] RELATED CONTENT

site_doc.gif
Peter Passi Archive
Competition for newly qualified commercial pilots already has heated up, according to Kent Lovelace, a professor of aviation and chairman of the University of North Dakota’s aerospace department, one of the largest trainers of commercial pilots in the nation.“We’ve had about 10 different airlines out here, hiring on campus this year. And most of them have been coming back every six weeks or so,” he said.
Lovelace said would-be employers have become increasingly aggressive, offering signing bonuses and extending job offers contingent upon students successfully completing their aviation studies. Other carriers have offered their existing employees bonuses for referrals that result in the hiring of new pilots.
“I’ve been working here since 1980, and I’ve never before seen this level of recruiting activity,” Lovelace said.
But the career path for young pilots remains rocky. Just ask Andrew Johnson, a Duluth native now flying CRJ200s, 700s and 900s for SkyWest Airlines in Chicago. During this, his first year with the company, he expects to pull down less than $20,000 in pay.
“I don’t know many people who make less than I do,” said Johnson, who also operates a painting business on the side. He said that many of his pilot colleagues work second jobs to make ends meet.
BURDENSOME DEBTS
The low pay is even more difficult to bear, considering the debts aspiring pilots incur to become qualified for commercial jobs.
Lovelace said it’s not unusual for a pilot to invest $100,000 in training before landing an airline job. Many people enter the profession shouldering hefty debts.
In contrast, many more airline pilots used to enter the field following military flying careers. They received most of their training on Uncle Sam’s dime.
Lovelace said that up until the 1980s, about 75 percent of new airline pilot hires came from the military, and the remainder came from civilian training programs. Just the opposite is true today, he said.
“The military has downsized so dramatically since the end of the Cold War and the fall of the Iron Curtain, it has really dried up as a source of pilots,” Lovelace said.
Given the changing scene, he contends that young people need more of a financial incentive to pursue careers as commercial airline pilots. He pointed out that often graduates can make more flying cargo or working in the corporate aviation arena than they can working for regional airlines.
“There’s no way around it; regional carriers are going to have to up their pay,” Lovelace said.
“PAYING YOUR DUES”
For most pilots, working at a regional carrier remains a necessary precursor to winning a job at a major national airline.
“It’s seen as paying your dues,” said Johnson, who said he still aspires to one day fly larger aircraft for a major airline. First, however, Johnson acknowledges he probably will need to become a captain at SkyWest and log at least 1,000 hours in that role to make it to the big leagues.
Wade Blaufuss, a first officer flying Boeing 757s for Northwest Airlines, said the payoff for pilots who made it to the major airlines used to be more rewarding than it is now. In the past few years, Blaufuss said that he and other pilots at Northwest have seen their wages cut by about 38 percent, as the airline restructured through bankruptcy.
A beginning pilot at Northwest now earns $30,000 to $35,000, and the pay scale tops out at about $180,000 for a captain of a Boeing 747 with 30-plus years of experience, according to Blaufuss. He said the pay reflects the training, experience, responsibility and skill required to safely fly such an aircraft.
Twelve years ago, when he was starting at Northwest, Blaufuss said his career held much more appeal. Airline pilots’ wages aren’t the only thing that has taken a hit. Blaufuss said less stringent work rules have led to more time away from home.
“If it were me, and I was back in college today, I wouldn’t choose this career again,” Blaufuss said. “The daily grind of the job seems to be designed for a bachelor with no life outside of work.”
Northwest Airlines has struggled to maintain its schedule with a leaner stable of pilots on the payrolls. After a spate of canceled flights and delays, the airline announced on July 24 that it planned to hire 250 to 350 more pilots within the coming year.
So far, Northwest has had no difficulty attracting job candidates. In just two weeks’ time, the airline was flooded with more than 1,400 applications.
Northwest’s regional airline affiliates also are hiring. Mesaba Airlines has received 1,400 applications for 695 positions it’s trying to fill. Meanwhile Compass Airlines has received 1,300 applications for 360 pilot openings.
“We’re pleased with the response we’ve received,” said Roman Blahoski, a spokesman for Northwest, adding: “I think we have a good pool of candidates with lots of flying experience.”
GREATER CHALLENGE
Airlines have yet to face their greatest challenge, as increasing numbers of pilots reach retirement age. The Federal Aviation Administration projects that the nation’s supply of pilots with commercial licenses will drop to about 119,000 by the end of this year — nearly 6 percent fewer aviators than five years ago.
Lovelace offered little bright news, when it comes to young people entering the profession, either. He noted that the number of students enrolled in commercial pilot programs at UND dropped by 12 percent from 2002 to 2006.
As many of the nation’s largest airlines filed for bankruptcy in recent years, Lovelace said many students came to view the industry as too volatile. He said the public failed to recognize the growing opportunities for pilots flying cargo, corporate aircraft and for nontraditional carriers.
Despite tough times, the desire to fly large commercial aircraft continues to motivate many young aviators.
Ross Schumacher, 20, works as a flight instructor for Twin Ports Flying Service in Superior, building his flight hours in hopes of landing a job at a small regional carrier in the near future. His dream is to fly a large commercial jet.
Although his family has remained supportive of his career goals, Schumacher said many others have tried to convince him to change course.
“A lot of people have tried to discourage me,” he said.
But Schumacher can imagine no better job than flying for a living.
“It goes back to the basics,” he said. “Flying is my passion. And at the end of the day, it’s important to love what you do.”
PETER PASSI covers business and development. He can be reached



That's why you need to have other tangible career choices. If not, shame on you! The lender/collectors out there are like sharks, they want their money and they don't mean maybe.
 
Yeah, it's hard to imagine why someone would want their money.
Good article, with one minor exception; why is it that military pilots are always described as getting their training on "Uncle Sam's dime"? I believe there is a fair return for the ol' uncle's money. The training, just like civilian training, comes out of your hide, not Uncle Sam's benevolence.
 
we all had choices- but many of us were unfairly disqualified by the military... Training comes out of our hide no matter- but it comes out of the civilian pilot's wallet to a MUCH greater degree.

It's something i wish more of our military brothers understood better.
 
Okey dokey, then.
The wish is shared, albeit inversely.
 
we all had choices- but many of us were unfairly disqualified by the military... Training comes out of our hide no matter- but it comes out of the civilian pilot's wallet to a MUCH greater degree.

It's something i wish more of our military brothers understood better.


Yeah, those military guys have it easy...all those all-expenses-paid trips to sunny places, and it's not like they do anything dangerous or anything. They really should realize that we civilian pilots have to sacrifice our money for our training, while they get it for free.

Heck just last week I was talking to a buddy whose reserve unit got activated to go to some vacation spot near the Persian Gulf...sure sounds nice to me! Plus he gets a bunch of time away from his wife and kid! I got so tired of his whining I finally had to point out that I had spent thousands of dollars on my own training, and didn't get any of those perks.


-sarcasm mode disengaged-
 
Not much point in saying anything directly to waveflyer, God only knows how long he's been looking through that soda straw at his bank account (while the rest of the whole-wide-world goes on in all it's complexity).

People quite often feel the need to reduce a situation that has many interrelated issues, trade-offs, and other complexities at work to a simple (minded) statement that they can throw out in conversation as though it were the God's-honest, universally accepted truth. Which it is not (as we all know).

This need is driven mostly by what I have come to call "Personal Mythology." Which is best described as a collection of sometimes bizarre, sometimes one-sided, sometimes bigotted, sometimes blinkered, often self-centered, self-serving, or self-aggrandizing beliefs that, together, allow an otherwise unremarkable, medium achieving, and moderately flawed individual to feel superior to his fellow man.
 
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but many of us were unfairly disqualified by the military...

but it comes out of the civilian pilot's wallet to a MUCH greater degree.

It's something i wish more of our military brothers understood better.

Interesting choice of words. So how where you unfairly disqualified?

Your assertion that civilain folks pay a higher monetary cost to gain a position at a major is unfounded and a myth. Support your claim.
 
we all had choices- but many of us were unfairly disqualified by the military... Training comes out of our hide no matter- but it comes out of the civilian pilot's wallet to a MUCH greater degree.

It's something i wish more of our military brothers understood better.

Tell that to the families of my friends that came back from the sandbox in an aluminum box.

Jackass.

BTW, you are NOT my brother.
 
Heyas,

Those numbers are pitiful. Back at the dawn of the last hiring cycle (say 96-97), places usually had 8k to 10k apps on file (and FedEx, UPS and SWA were a fraction of their current size).

The fact that they had to issue a press release to say "hey! we have people who have applied" speaks volumes on how bad the hiring situation is.

As someone mentioned, a certain fraction of that number is going to be either un- or under qualified. Plus figure that about %100 of that number have their stuff in also at UAL, DAL, CAL, SWA, FedEx, UPS (to the extent their PIC permits) and whoever else is hiring.

If you have a %50 success rate at the interview of those who are left, and start pulling 30-40 a month from that pool, you get to zero pretty quick.

Nu
 
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It does nobody in this profession any good if the civilian guys look at the military guys and think 'they got a free ride', and the mil guys look at the civilians and only think 'they didn't have it nearly as tough as we did'.

Who gives a crap. How about we BOTH try and elevate this profession to the place where it's in BOTH of out interests for it to be?

The only one who gains from this type of in-fighting is MANAGEMENT.
 
wow
guys calm down- you don't know my background and how many of my family are in the sandbox right now- so relax- good lord- the assumptions.

Phaedrus- we agree on many more things than we disagree with- you're right- and everyone on these boards is right- I don't know what it's like to be a military pilot-- I respect what you do (did) and appreciate your service--

here's the deal- i never said you guys didn't deserve your lot in life. I never said you haven't made sacrifices- especially lately- I've never said i wasn't grateful for your service. I only said that it came out of my WALLET to a much higher degree than you. Is that important in the grand scheme of things? Not nearly as much as the sacrifices that those who have been extended overseas. But does it mean that regional pilot pay & QOL isn't an issue that affects all airline pilots? No- A lot of military pilots really don't know how little regional pilots make, and how much financial creativity it takes to finance flight training. (For those of us w/o a trust fund anyway)

When i say unfairly disqualified- i mean that was my situation- I had a friend who obtained a waiver for his healthy 20/300 vision- i was dq'd by my healthy 20/200. I tried all the avenues to get the same waiver- but wasn't as connected. That's life. (I've flown w/ enough military guys to know that every single one of you has a good friend who was dq'd for some bullsh*t.) But it is what it is. After that, my choice was to not fly for a living or go to civilian school. I spent $120k on my flight training and education for a job that paid $17k. That was a begrudgingly acceptable deal b/c there was significant reward at the majors that really isn't there anymore. w/ all the instability- i did 3 years at that "1st year" pay and that doesn't include the time on furlough. I made an equal amount of $$ waiting tables on my 10 off days than i did in my 'professional' job. Compared to other professional wages out of college- Regional pilot wages are in the gutter. And that's what we should be comparing ourselves to- Not each other- but to the rest of society.

You know what's funny-(I'm sure this'll flame many of you- and i'm sorry to take away from this thread.) Many of my teacher's were vietnam pilots=- The one's who saw action and killed people- don't tote it around like most of you- Half of you like to pretend your jousting bin laden on a daily basis- and if you are- I love you and thank you- But everyone on these boards knows that most of you don't get anywhere near the action that my 22 year old cousin is in the thick of right now. We all have loved ones over there- so don't go making this a military vs civilian thing. What this thread is - is a regional pilot pay issue vs a comparable professional job in society.

The difference between me and many of you that just posted:- I respect your background- You don't respect mine.

But ignoring the regionals has led to RJ after RJ after RJ and repressed wages to go along with it.... I can't tell you how much i disagree with the regionals- but i'm not silly enough to blame the pilots for most of it. With all the turnover and lack of leadership- the regionals need our help.
 
You were doing some good until the 2nd and 3rd to last paragraphs.
I won't go into it, but I'm sure others will. Too much negativity and narrow-mindedness.
Peace.
 
This need is driven mostly by what I have come to call "Personal Mythology." Which is best described as a collection of sometimes bizarre, sometimes one-sided, sometimes bigotted, sometimes blinkered, often self-centered, self-serving, or self-aggrandizing beliefs that, together, allow an otherwise unremarkable, medium achieving, and moderately flawed individual to feel superior to his fellow man.

Comment?

Yeah, I have a comment......WHAAAT?
 
I remember when CAL opened it's windw in 2005. I heard a figure, being tossed around at the schoolhouse, of 10,000 plus apps.

And NW likes to brag about 1400?
86% less? Pathetic!
 
I remember when CAL opened it's windw in 2005. I heard a figure, being tossed around at the schoolhouse, of 10,000 plus apps.

And NW likes to brag about 1400?
86% less? Pathetic!


Exactly....1400 is a fart in the bathtub compared with what UPS, FredEx and SWA have on file.

Nu
 
The SWA recruiters are saying they have nowhere near 10,000 applicants that they once had, those days are long gone.

That is why both SWA and UPS have recently lowered their minimums.

The reality is that for pilots that meet the requirements - the regional career looking forward as a Captain is better than starting at the bottom of a major.

If you are working for Horizon, Skywest, Eagle, etc. and you are a Captain you are easily pulling in around 70k-80k a year or more. Plus you have pretty good seniority, have virtually no chance of getting furloughed, and have the same, if not better, travel benefits than the guys at the majors. Aside from SWA, UPS, and FDX, it will take you several years just equal what you were making at a regional.

That is why Alaska has had to drop the PIC requirement for Horizon guys/gals recently because they can't get any of the Captains to leave. I think you will see the PIC requirement go away at Alaska sooner than later for everyone with 121 SIC experience. All airlines will eventually be forced to lower their minimums.

As for the military guys, aside from not training as many, not many are getting out. A field-grade officer that is still flying makes significantly more money than just about any airline first officer. It use to make obvious monetary sense to leave the military to fly for an airline - it just isn't so clear anymore.

I think the pendulum is swinging back our way, hopefully things will start looking up.

Later
 

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