Finally a Somewhat acurate article

[scoreboard]

but many of us were unfairly disqualified by the military...

but it comes out of the civilian pilot's wallet to a MUCH greater degree.

It's something i wish more of our military brothers understood better.

Interesting choice of words. So how where you unfairly disqualified?

Your assertion that civilain folks pay a higher monetary cost to gain a position at a major is unfounded and a myth. Support your claim.

 

[Cavpilot]

we all had choices- but many of us were unfairly disqualified by the military... Training comes out of our hide no matter- but it comes out of the civilian pilot's wallet to a MUCH greater degree.

It's something i wish more of our military brothers understood better.

Tell that to the families of my friends that came back from the sandbox in an aluminum box.

Jackass.

BTW, you are NOT my brother.

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

Those numbers are pitiful. Back at the dawn of the last hiring cycle (say 96-97), places usually had 8k to 10k apps on file (and FedEx, UPS and SWA were a fraction of their current size).

The fact that they had to issue a press release to say "hey! we have people who have applied" speaks volumes on how bad the hiring situation is.

As someone mentioned, a certain fraction of that number is going to be either un- or under qualified. Plus figure that about %100 of that number have their stuff in also at UAL, DAL, CAL, SWA, FedEx, UPS (to the extent their PIC permits) and whoever else is hiring.

If you have a %50 success rate at the interview of those who are left, and start pulling 30-40 a month from that pool, you get to zero pretty quick.

Nu

 

[Mud Eagle]

It does nobody in this profession any good if the civilian guys look at the military guys and think 'they got a free ride', and the mil guys look at the civilians and only think 'they didn't have it nearly as tough as we did'.

Who gives a crap. How about we BOTH try and elevate this profession to the place where it's in BOTH of out interests for it to be?

The only one who gains from this type of in-fighting is MANAGEMENT.

 

[waveflyer]

wow
guys calm down- you don't know my background and how many of my family are in the sandbox right now- so relax- good lord- the assumptions.

Phaedrus- we agree on many more things than we disagree with- you're right- and everyone on these boards is right- I don't know what it's like to be a military pilot-- I respect what you do (did) and appreciate your service--

here's the deal- i never said you guys didn't deserve your lot in life. I never said you haven't made sacrifices- especially lately- I've never said i wasn't grateful for your service. I only said that it came out of my WALLET to a much higher degree than you. Is that important in the grand scheme of things? Not nearly as much as the sacrifices that those who have been extended overseas. But does it mean that regional pilot pay & QOL isn't an issue that affects all airline pilots? No- A lot of military pilots really don't know how little regional pilots make, and how much financial creativity it takes to finance flight training. (For those of us w/o a trust fund anyway)

When i say unfairly disqualified- i mean that was my situation- I had a friend who obtained a waiver for his healthy 20/300 vision- i was dq'd by my healthy 20/200. I tried all the avenues to get the same waiver- but wasn't as connected. That's life. (I've flown w/ enough military guys to know that every single one of you has a good friend who was dq'd for some bullsh*t.) But it is what it is. After that, my choice was to not fly for a living or go to civilian school. I spent $120k on my flight training and education for a job that paid $17k. That was a begrudgingly acceptable deal b/c there was significant reward at the majors that really isn't there anymore. w/ all the instability- i did 3 years at that "1st year" pay and that doesn't include the time on furlough. I made an equal amount of $$ waiting tables on my 10 off days than i did in my 'professional' job. Compared to other professional wages out of college- Regional pilot wages are in the gutter. And that's what we should be comparing ourselves to- Not each other- but to the rest of society.

You know what's funny-(I'm sure this'll flame many of you- and i'm sorry to take away from this thread.) Many of my teacher's were vietnam pilots=- The one's who saw action and killed people- don't tote it around like most of you- Half of you like to pretend your jousting bin laden on a daily basis- and if you are- I love you and thank you- But everyone on these boards knows that most of you don't get anywhere near the action that my 22 year old cousin is in the thick of right now. We all have loved ones over there- so don't go making this a military vs civilian thing. What this thread is - is a regional pilot pay issue vs a comparable professional job in society.

The difference between me and many of you that just posted:- I respect your background- You don't respect mine.

But ignoring the regionals has led to RJ after RJ after RJ and repressed wages to go along with it.... I can't tell you how much i disagree with the regionals- but i'm not silly enough to blame the pilots for most of it. With all the turnover and lack of leadership- the regionals need our help.

 

[Phaedrus]

You were doing some good until the 2nd and 3rd to last paragraphs.
I won't go into it, but I'm sure others will. Too much negativity and narrow-mindedness.
Peace.

 

[UALjan15]

This need is driven mostly by what I have come to call "Personal Mythology." Which is best described as a collection of sometimes bizarre, sometimes one-sided, sometimes bigotted, sometimes blinkered, often self-centered, self-serving, or self-aggrandizing beliefs that, together, allow an otherwise unremarkable, medium achieving, and moderately flawed individual to feel superior to his fellow man.

Comment?

Yeah, I have a comment......WHAAAT?

 

[whymeworry?]

I remember when CAL opened it's windw in 2005. I heard a figure, being tossed around at the schoolhouse, of 10,000 plus apps.

And NW likes to brag about 1400?
86% less? Pathetic!

 

[NuGuy]

I remember when CAL opened it's windw in 2005. I heard a figure, being tossed around at the schoolhouse, of 10,000 plus apps.

And NW likes to brag about 1400?
86% less? Pathetic!

Exactly....1400 is a fart in the bathtub compared with what UPS, FredEx and SWA have on file.

Nu

 

[igneousy2]

The SWA recruiters are saying they have nowhere near 10,000 applicants that they once had, those days are long gone.

That is why both SWA and UPS have recently lowered their minimums.

The reality is that for pilots that meet the requirements - the regional career looking forward as a Captain is better than starting at the bottom of a major.

If you are working for Horizon, Skywest, Eagle, etc. and you are a Captain you are easily pulling in around 70k-80k a year or more. Plus you have pretty good seniority, have virtually no chance of getting furloughed, and have the same, if not better, travel benefits than the guys at the majors. Aside from SWA, UPS, and FDX, it will take you several years just equal what you were making at a regional.

That is why Alaska has had to drop the PIC requirement for Horizon guys/gals recently because they can't get any of the Captains to leave. I think you will see the PIC requirement go away at Alaska sooner than later for everyone with 121 SIC experience. All airlines will eventually be forced to lower their minimums.

As for the military guys, aside from not training as many, not many are getting out. A field-grade officer that is still flying makes significantly more money than just about any airline first officer. It use to make obvious monetary sense to leave the military to fly for an airline - it just isn't so clear anymore.

I think the pendulum is swinging back our way, hopefully things will start looking up.

Later