Final Agreement reached

[Lear70]

Respectfully Lear you are wrong. I have emailed my reps in MCO 3 times indicating I want to vote on this.

Respectfully, I spoke to GP yesterday for 20 minutes. He indicated he had not heard from anyone who wanted a vote at this point, although in fairness he said that if people weren't putting in their email that they were MCO F/O's, he wasn't trying to match names to the domicile F/O list, as he's getting thousands of emails from people emailing the ATN email from all domiciles multiple times.

Him telling me this is what prompted my post on the internal message board yesterday, telling people to email him with their name and seat position in the very beginning of the email so he could start keeping a list.

So any "incorrect" information comes directly from the source. If you're a CA, GP hasn't been keeping track of your desires, as he's the F/O rep. You need to contact CG if that's the case.

To date I have not received a call or reply from either GP or CG. So if they are calling folks they are selectively calling. I guess you can skew the results of any poll by choosing the right people to poll or asking the question a different way. I have spoken with several yes voters.

I guess it depends what seat you're sitting in. Only one CA I've flown with or talked to is voting Yes, the rest are adamant No voters, and I fly with a different CA every trip since I trade around so much for more days at home.

On the other subject, CG is the only one calling each of his CA's individually in MCO. If you're in the left seat, he probably hasn't gotten to you yet (there's 70-some CA's in base, would probably take a few days since everyone would want to talk 15-20 minutes minimum). If you're an F/O, GP has asked everyone to eMail him rather than phone everyone, in the interest of time. We only have 48 hours 'til they vote.

 

[Lear70]

Lear,

"IF" what you say is true, that the ATL reps are voting No, then its a done deal. All they have to do is call for a roll call vote, vote no and it over.

2 ATL reps don't have the numbers for a roll call vote.

It would take 3 ATL reps or 2 ATL reps and 2 reps from any other base and seat to control a roll call vote. I think many of the reps are leaning one way or another but waiting for the MEC meeting tomorrow to hear directly from the pilots in conjunction with the emails and phone calls they're receiving.

 

[BlueandWhite]

The small group of posters on the SWAPA forum and on PPrune do not speak for all 5900+ SWA pilots. I do not presume to speak for them either. I have no idea what will happen on the AAI side, but assuming it goes to a vote, the choice for both sides is not whether it is a good or bad agreement (you can decide that for yourself). The real choice will be: good or bad - is this agreement better than what would come out of arbitration? There are lots of things that upset both sides in this agreement, but if you really study this, there are some good things for both sides that may be lost if we go to arbitration. I know what is in this SLI. I have no clue and get no say what will be in a future arbitration ruling.
I don't like everything in this SLI, but it is something that pilots from BOTH sides worked very hard to come to an agreement on. Pilots that are a lot smarter than I am on this topic. I have read the SLI once, and plan on going over it many times more, asking questions of my reps. Then I will decide how I vote. I urge everyone involved to do the same - study it, ask questions to your respective negotiating/merger committees. and decide for yourself which will be better - arbitration or SLI. Just the thoughts from one small voice in the crowd. Sincere best wishes to all SWA and Air Tran pilots involved.

 

[Music]

So tell me Music, what would you change? I know what the SWA would like to change. I doubt the AT guys would be willing to give the changes that the SWA side wants.

I do not think either side has anything to give the other side. Both sides view this a a raw deal.

For me, I can't live with a 3.91 year seniority loss coupled with the C & Rs that accompany the agreement. For me (and I can only speak for me), I would like to see better seniority and very few C & Rs that are supposed to "protect" me. I want my seniority (what ever it ends up being) to protect me (or not) and not have a C & R written to compensate for the "lack" of it.

 

[Lear70]

I hope that AAI votes this down than the onus will be on your group...but are you guys nuts? AAI CPS seat protected until 2020, AAI senior FOs longevity increase, all AAI pilots receiving a raise and a career at a more successful and stable carrier??

I could go on and on about the "protections" that weren't realized, one of your own pilots has pointed one or two of them out on here. I know most of you won't understand it, I wouldn't expect you to on your side of the fence, but the simple fact is that most of us would rather take our chances in arbitration and let simple seniority do the job of "protecting" what needs protecting.

Again I hope and really do believe you will vote this down, but talk about looking a "gift horse in the mouth"...if arbitration and resultant negotiations between SWAPA and SWA do not go in the former AAI pilots favor, you will have a serious case of "self ass kicking" to deal with...

Possibly. But have you considered that the shoe may be on the other foot in the end? Favoring us quite a bit more but not bad enough to drive SWAPA to sour your relationship with Southwest by pulling a F9?

It's a risk. For both sides. But the general consensus seems to be that it's not a fair shake and that we'd rather have an arbitrator decide what's fair than just voluntarily give it away. I could be wrong, it could still pass, but after speaking with most of the reps first-hand and listening to first-time board posters, guys who used to fight bitterly now on the same page, etc, all pushing the MEC to vote it down,,,

The good news is that by voting it down at the MEC level there's time to return to the table for mediation (there won't be if it goes to vote and dies at pilot vote). If SWAPA and SWA are willing to move towards a passable agreement, then we can still avoid arbitration. I don't know if that's a realistic possibility, but I still hope it can happen.

 

[Ty Webb]

MJ-


Unfortunately, there are just too many "gotcha's" in this thing.

• The "ATL protections" do not apply to half of our pilots, since the base is being reduced. I'm at 29% on our list, and I won't even hold ATL. Those protections don't help me at all.

• The half of the Pilot Group that gets displaced gets the "double-whammy" of being displaced, but with 30% seniority loss.

• System-wide losses of Captain seats will be born by AirTran pilots, since we'll have lost 4 years/30%.

• While downgraded, we'll make less per hour than we did at AAI!

I hope you can see from just these examples, there are legitimate issues and concerns that are driving this; we're not "greedy" or "bad employees". We don't want to go down this road, but this SIA is fraught with problems.

 

[texman]

For me, I can't live with a 3.91 year seniority loss coupled with the C & Rs that accompany the agreement. For me (and I can only speak for me), I would like to see better seniority and very few C & Rs that are supposed to "protect" me. I want my seniority (what ever it ends up being) to protect me (or not) and not have a C & R written to compensate for the "lack" of it.

This is just ME! Well I feel that your all about ME comments are exactly what we don't want at SWA. Everyone has to take a hit in this deal. " I can't take a 3.91 year seniority loss". Cry me a river!

I am upset with how some of the AT guy's are now in the position of what more can we get! All the SWA guy's blew a f-ing top when the on the CUSP AT fo's got a longevity pay bump. Now we have AT captians that have said "I just want to keep my seat", but can't take a seniority hit.

I am sorry but being a SWA JR FO and very grateful to work here, all I see is "ME" on the AT side. I just don't get it! Can't you people look down the road and see the future. I made sacrifice to be part of SWA, so do YOU! It's called success sharing. If you don't like the QOL and $ you will get at SWA, Quit!

Lear 70 is the only level headed person on this board and I wouldn't mine pulling his gear, but not for some punk b eatch entitled AT Capt!


GK AND SWA ARE BEING MORE THAN GENEROUS!

 

[Fubijaakr]

I would trade places with you and gladly give up my seniority for a SWA CP seat, even if it means sitting on the bottom till 2020...an upgrade in hand is worth two in the bush...congrats even though you don't (but will) appreciate what you are getting...

No you wouldn't or you wouldn't be advocating stapling 650 AAI F/Os and embargoing them from upgrading for a decade so you can. Nice try though.

 

[scoreboardII]

Possibly. But have you considered that the shoe may be on the other foot in the end? .

Lear, if this goes to arby, SWAPA gets to write the pay scale and the fence agreement, ALPA is out. So which airframe could be seat locked for life at 60% pay? You want arby, your seat, your seniority and our pay? OK, but be careful what you wish for.

 

[greenpilot]

The good news is that by voting it down at the MEC level there's time to return to the table for mediation (there won't be if it goes to vote and dies at pilot vote). If SWAPA and SWA are willing to move towards a passable agreement, then we can still avoid arbitration. I don't know if that's a realistic possibility, but I still hope it can happen.

Lear
I asked one of the reps what happens if the mec votes this down. I was told it goes to arbitration. We don't have time for more negotioations due to the voting time line. Swapa needs 45 days. I was also told mediation was a waste of time. Both sides would go back to their original proposals.