Fighter bomber cuts cable

[JCJ]

I am sure there was hoopla about the pills because that's something the press always speculates about anytime there is a military crash. But I don't think the crew actually took go pills before they flew that mission.

This accident occurred in Feb, 98.

Naval aviation (which I would presume includes USMC for this purpose since they use the same flight surgeons) approved a "go pill" plan in 2000, but it wasn't implemented until late 2002.

reference http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3071789/

Also, as pointed out they were on a peacetime training mission.

The pilot was acquitted of charges related to the accident itself, and charges were dropped against the nav. Both were punished, however for obstruction of justice for destroying a videotape of the accident.

If the videotape had not been destroyed, maybe the outcome of the accident-related charges would have been different, maybe not.

The PIC is of course, ultimately responsible but it sounds the entire organizational environment was lacking. Without necessarily supporting or condemning the flight crew or the overall organization, this does point out the very real difficulties of maintaining a force that is expected to be the meanest dude on the block in wartime, but provide a safe and politically correct training environment in peacetime.

 

[Fugawe]

The USAF, and most probably the USN/USMC and Army and CG, had go pills long before this time (2000-2002). I tested (required before use) on them in the 80s, and they were nothing new then.

Perhaps the media and public is just discovering this and treats it like something new -- no surprise there.

Most likely many operatives including regular military, special ops, FBI, CIA, civilian law enforcement, etc use some time of 'go-pills'. The nature of many missions requires alertness in BSOC (back side of the clock) ops.

You do what you gotta do.


Fugawe

 

[agpilot34]

Naval Aviation might have "approved" the go pill plan in 2000 and implemented it in 2002, but the pills were around and in use long before that time. Maybe not officially, but they were used none the less. I have an uncle that was a Navy pilot in the late 70's and early 80's, and he's mentioned using them before.

 

[SB Diver]

It was a routine training mission and the crew were not on go-pills.

 

[AdlerDriver]

Negative, it's not a mix up. I remember all the hoopla surrounding this incident, and the "go pills" were talked about extensively, it was just never proven that they were a contributing factor in that case.

Negative, it's not a mix up. I remember all the hoopla surrounding this incident, and the "go pills" were talked about extensively, it was just never proven that they were a contributing factor in that case.

I have to agree with JimNtexas and SBpilot. This was not a go pill incident. The only "hoopla" regarding go-pills surrounding an incident was the Springfield, IL ANG pilots who fratted some Canadian troops in Afghanistan a couple of years ago.

You can't just grab go-pills from a candy dish on the ops desk before you go fly a training mission. The EA-6 that cut the cable in Italy was on a training mission. They don't use go-pills on training mission. The "hoopla" about this mission was the fact that they killed 20 Italians and Italy wanted to put them in jail. It also was complicated by the fact that the cable was lower than the altitude the pilots should have been flying at and the previously mentioned destruction of evidence (the mission tape? I think).

Go do a google search on go-pills and military accidents and I think the only link you'll find is the the Afghanistan accident. If you still insist that the EA-6 guys were on go-pills then show us some links to your proof. If there was so much "hoopla" about it, there must be some old news stories with your claim supported.

 

[firstthird]

I also agree with JimNTexas, AdlerDriver, and SBpilot. I was flying in Italy at the time (Sigonella, not Aviano) and followed the accident reporting extensively, although just through the media like anyone else.

I find the argument that the Navy may have used go-pills in the 70s or 80s irrelevant. Most of the services go through cycles, I would not be at all surprised to learn that the navy used go-pills in the Vietnam era, stopped, and then started again in 2002.

As previously stated, these guys were on a 1 or 2 hour flight during daylight hours, near their base, training. That isn't a recipe for go-pills in anyone's book. The more likely scenario is a combination of flathatting and command climate. Apparently they weren't the only guys in the unit to fly their tactical training routes lower than authorized and weren't the only ones with video of it either. They got a little lost and before they figured it out had clipped that cable and 19 people died.

The two air national guard guys in Afghanistan used go-pills as their defense. The Marines in Italy used something more along the lines of we didn't know we were that low and the charts we were using didn't show that particular gondola.

 

[Huggyu2]

As someone who currently flies with "go-pills", I have found no adverse side effects. There is no way that it would cause me to make the kind of mistakes that various lawyers claim the pills cause.

 

[Jafar]

As someone who currently flies with "go-pills", I have found no adverse side effects. There is no way that it would cause me to make the kind of mistakes that various lawyers claim the pills cause.

Not to hijack, but what are the issued "go-pills"? I was under the impression that the USAF uses Dexedrine, which is a very powerful amphetamine. I assume you are waived from popping for amphetamine on a piss test if you're taking these.

 

[JCJ]

Not to hijack, but what are the issued "go-pills"? I was under the impression that the USAF uses Dexedrine, which is a very powerful amphetamine. I assume you are waived from popping for amphetamine on a piss test if you're taking these.

Yes

The medication is issued under the supervision of a flight surgeon

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Did both the NAv and the pilot got to jail? Discharged? (most likely)

 

[Huggyu2]

Before you are allowed to use it, you ground test it: basically, you take various doses over a weekend, and see your reaction. Most guys find it is a performance enhancer. I know one pilot that didn't like the side effects it caused in him, and he won't use the stuff. Personally, I love it.

 

[SB Diver]

The crew were flying aggressively and honestly trying to adhere to the rules and restrictions along the route. They just got way too low at a critical spot and the rest is history. There was nothing on the standard chart the the US military was using that depicted the cable. They had jerry-rigged a video camera in the front cockpit and erased it on the way back to base while the plane was barely flying (not sure if this was smart or not...). That is what got the pilot 5 months in the brig and the front Nav (ECMO 1) a discharge. The two backseaters were not reprimanded (sp?) but were raked over the coals after the accident. They are both still on active duty. The real tragedy was the death of 20 people and also that the Marine Corps completely turned their backs on the aircrew. Lesson to all of us: it can happen to you and be ready to take responsibility for your actions!

 

[Bjammin]

I saw the airplane in JAX after the incident. It cut about a 1 ft gash in the wing and that's it, amazing airplane. My budy was the duty officer in that Marine squadron that day. He has some great stories he will only tell me over a few beers.
Funny thing was the Navy was prevented from going "low" for years after that. Restricted to 5K unless taking off or landing, Red Flag was pointless. The Marines went back after a very short time.

Anyway, sad incident, but can see how it happened.

 

[f9driver]

Navy used 5,000' for low level. HORSE SH_T!!!

 

[JimNtexas]

What was the story with that Navy F-14 crew who shot the USAF RF-4C off the tanker near Italy in the late 80s?