Felony Conviction???

[are u my daddy?]

Here is the dark side of my life. I made a great mistake of being intimate with a girl that was four years younger than me. Ever since then i had to go to therapy, see a psychiatrist, register as a sex-offender, and admit to all my employers of my past. I have been honest to everyone and god only knows which jobs i have lost becuase of the conviction. Since 911, the conviction is a heavier weight to carry since more employers are doing background searches outside of aviation. Ever since my conviction, the victim and i got married when she turned 18 and we have been together for the happiest 10 years of my life.

Some employers ask in the last 10 years if you ever been convicted and some employers ask in your life if you ever been convicted of a felony? My question is do employers only search the last 10 years or your whole life time for conviction. Some employers have found nothing when i told them of my conviction. Lawyers have told me that it over 10 years of search does not exist, is that true???

 

[B190Captain]

Well if you married the so-called victim then you need to explain that and maybe they will cut you some slack.

I believe the check all your adult life (18yrs and up) for convictions but the last 10 years for employment, driver's license etc..

Not sure though.

A friend had trouble with the DOJ because he was born in Tripoli, Lybia. His Dad was based there in the US Military.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

No worries

The fact that you married the little girl and stayed married is more of an indicator of your character than the legal snafu itself. I'm thinking this will not be much of a hinderance to employment so long as you are honest about it and "show what you learned from the experience". I would NOT try to justify the act by the fact that you got married, however. Don't minimize the fact that you did something wrong. Acknowledge the wrongness of not following rules and how your experience with justice taught you to respect rules and laws, etc. Then tell them you've been happily married for ten years to her and I would imagine an interviewer will move on to the next subject without hesitation.

 

[Snakum]

If I'm underdstanding the new TSA guidelines correctly (and I may not be) you would most likely not pass muster for aircraft over 12,500 lbs, would you? I'd love to hear the take on this from the pros among us ... anyone with a checkered past faced that hurdle yet?

Minh
(Who also has a skeleton or three ... but it was a misdemeanor.)

 

[LJDRVR]

I got a chance to attend a Safety Standown where a noted aviation attorney spoke. According to him the FAR 61.153 clause to "be of good moral character" to have an ATP, has been ruled such that the FAA must prove a pattern of conduct or habit.

According to this guy, examples of crimes an ATP can get away with once, would be indecent exposure, adultry, tax fraud and murder. He went on to say that crimes an ATP can't even get away with once would be drug smuggling or interstate statutory rape. (He did say the "She was very tall and liked airplanes" defense failed.)

Contact an aviation attorney to make sure you will be able to hold an ATP. If so, I don't think it will pose a problem for you in an interview, provided you answer honestly and accept responsibility for your actions. (It sounds like you did) The ten years of "crime-free" living helps here also. None of us are perfect, it's how we handle self-created adversity and what we learned in the process that gives the interviewer a good picture of our caracter.

Best of luck! I think you'll be fine. PM me if you would like the name of the guy who did the presentation. (He's a pilot too, so I suppose he can be forgiven for practicing law.)

 

[Dep676]

Is there anyway you can go back to the courts who convicted you and ask to have your record cleared of it. I don't remember the technical term for it. You can have it where you don't have to tell anybody about it. I mean you are and have been married to the person for 10 years that says a bunch there.

Good Luck.

 

[Rick1128]

I believe the term is expunge. From the forms I had to fill out for TSA, they ask about a list of felony convictions for the last ten years. So if it was more than ten years ago, I would follow the TSA's lead in that.

But that is just me.

 

[Palerider957]

Hey Man:

I was a cop for six years in a big city. I can tell you that there is VERY little that a lot of money and a good attorney can't expunge/seal/or otherwise make go away. Often the attorney will file a motion with the court that saw your case, it's totally up to the judge. If the judge is ameniable, then you have to MAKE SURE the charge is removed from the national AND local records. Often something that doesn't show up on a "national" check shows up on local checks.

There are a variety of remedies attornies and lawyers have for making things vanish. I know of one guy who had a Theft charge, his lawyer got it expunged and a letter to him statiing that if asked about any previous Theft offenses he should state "no."

Just some thoughts, good luck.

 

[cocknbull]

Unfortunately I believe Rape of any kind is an offense that will prevent you from passing the FBI background check. You will not be able to get a TSA security clearance for Part 121 and 135 operators with aircraft over 12,500 max TO weight. The FBI fingerprint check will show any arrest in the past 10 years. Most states do not release misdomeanor offenses to the FBI however every state will turn over felony arrests to the FBI. I know someone who is going to buy a govenors pardon for about 10,000 dollars.

 

[are u my daddy?]

Let me get this right. If my conviction occured more than 10 years ago, then the TSA wont find out. I would get it expunged but the govt wont let me cuz this is a rape offense and it doesnt fit. It sucks for me but my 10 year anniversary of my conviction is this month and i am hoping that they dont find out/

 

[sleepy]

No offense to anyone on her, but you should just go see a criminal attorney in the state where the conviction took place. That is the only way that you will get the real scoop on what to do. It should not cost that much to have you case evaluated.

 

[dondk]

About a year or so ago.. Delta and NWA were going "beyond" the 10 year rule and those with convictions were terminated. These were more mechanics and ramp workers and so on.. The unions got involoved , filed a suit against the companies and those terminated employee's were returned to duty.

The point of this story is.. while the TSA is clear and the ruling is 10 years, the companies can go further and do more. You are "technically" able to hold a 121 or 135 security clearance the question is will the companies allow this?

I agree, expungement may be a choice, pardon, or someother thing to either have the charge reduced or classified something other than the 27 TSA no-no's

As for the searches over 10 years.. they exist.. I have a friend who had a problem in 1954, the item was so old and uncoded (traffic violation) that is showed up last year and he was turned down for a gun permit. While it was NOT a felony it was coded as one. Not withstanding this guy was a legal gun owner in several states, but Florida found this violation from Arkansas. Felony's are for "life" that is how it was put to me by his son (an attorney). A bit of money and some time and it was "corrected".

 

[cocknbull]

are u my daddy?

If your conviction is ten years or older than the charge will not automatically disqualify you from obtaining a security clearance. However most airlines hire private firms to do background checks beyond the FBI ten year check. The private firms check the following:

NDR= This tells the airline if your lincense has ever been suspended or revolked, but does not disclose why. This is also required under federal law for pilots.

State driving record= different from state to state, most go back 3 to 5 years.

County Criminal records search= They usually go through every county you lived in and obtain your criminal record including felonies and misdomeanors. Most states do not allow felonies and DUIs to be expunged.

Rarely, but on some occasions when enough red lights appear they will go to the county court house and obtain court records for any arrest or conviction on file for you. To do this is very rare because someone must physically go to your county and look at the records in person.

Although felonies are usually banned from expungement some states allow there judges to make exceptions. Another option would be to try to reopen the case. If you are still married to the girl than a good lawyer matbe able to get you off the hook. The only problem with that is the state maybe liable for lost wages, fines, etc...... Some prosecutors and judges will allow the judgement to be reversed as long as you forfit your fines and etc........

Good luck
CB

 

[p.b.]

Does anyone know if a DUI can be expunged? I have a friend who's dui from 14 years ago is haunting him. This thread has inspired me to try to help him out. thanks.

 

[Snakum]

About expungment ...

I've been reading about this on here for three years now, but for the life of me, I've never talked to ANYONE in my state who says it can be done. I've talked to cops, lawyers, and even one former district attorney. Without exception, all them said "No way.". So if you're in NC .... you're SOL.

Something to consider ...

I have two misdemeanors from 1993 and one felony arrest (plead down at trial to one of the aforementioned misdemeanors) and having pulled my state and federal criminal history for a gun permit thru a friend who's a cop ... I know what it will look like when a regional airline pulls it for a background check. I cannot imagine, for the life of me, that an airline HR person will do anything but THROW MY APP AND ALL ASSOCIATED PAPERWORK COMPLETED THUS FAR INTO THE TRASH. It just wouldn't make sense. I picture this guy or gal sitting there with a stack of partially completed app packets and mine is the only one out of the many with this big red flag. Why would the company gamble on me? That wouldn't be logical. Even in 1999 when 500-hour CFIs were getting class dates at COEX I don't imagine I'd get any farther into the process before I'd be chunked out.

So guys ... think about this long and hard before you charge headlong into thousands of dollars of debt. Even a couple of misdemeanors will be Red Flag City when competing against those among us who have spotless records (as most pilot wannabes do). You may wanna rethink your goals. I have always aimed for charter work n a King Air or Citation. I have legitimate chance at this kind of gig. But airline? I doubt it.

Minh

 

[dondk]

I cannot speak for other airlines...

At my airline.. the procedure is like so...
Our HR does a 5 year employement background check which is required by the FAA.

On the second day of class, they send you to the badging office at MEM and THEY do the 10 criminal background check.
IF you qualify for a badge, you keep the job.
From what little I understand, my company's position is that they are not going to get themselves in a lawsuit on making a "subjective" decision. If the airport authority feels you are a risk then the company had an "out" and the liability is on the airport (good luck fighting them) and not the company.

From speaking with the security member of the union, we have a few people with misdemeanors, some before and after the 9/11 issue.

You can have a record and have a job, albeit it may not be with your airline of choice.

 

[mazbaird]

Even if you are successful in getting a record Sealed or Expunged how will it show up on a background check?

Will it come back as "No records found" or "Sealed Case"

Could make a big difference on how you should fill out a that job application.

 

[cocknbull]

It would be impossible for me to speculate how each state approaches this. The best way to find out what is on your record is to:

1. Obtain a county criminal record for yourself. The fee is usually 4 dollars and can be obtained at the county courthouse.

2. Obtain your state driving record which can be obtained at several BMV locations within the state for a small fee.

3. Obtain your FBI background check. Go to your county court house and ask to be figure printed for an FBI check. The cost is 30 dollars and the results will take around 30 days.

4. If your lincense has been suspended or revolked obtain your NDR. Go to the National Driving Registries website.

If you do these 4 things you should know what anyone else can find out about you aside from a few people*. If record is sealed or expunged it may not have been cleared from all agencies records. For example you get a Drug abuse charge and your lincense is suspended. Two years later you get it expunged. You check your county criminal record check and you see it has infact been cleared. However there is a good chance the state forgot to mention the expungement to the bureau of motor vehicles. Bam the airline does a driving record report and your busted.

*Once you have been convicted it never goes away. It is just sealed from public viewing which is what the airline is entitled to. However all the peole looking at those computer screens at the courthouse and BMV can see everything just by putting you SS# into the computer.

I highly suggest honesty at an airline interview. Most of us are a little crazy and have gotten into trouble. One or two misdomeanors is not going to disqualify you from the job. The funny thing about pilot groups is they are all unique. Each airline has there own perfect pilot which they try to find. While a underage drinking ticket might get you killed at one airline it might be a "good" thing at another. Believe it or not some airlines don't want a bunch of loser dweebs walking around the terminal bitchen everytime the Captain drinks a beer and hits on a chick. What will disqualify you from an airline job would be a felony or a pattern of abuse. I'm sorry to say it but felonies are a major red flag and no matter how likable a guy maybe it is almost impossible to get the company to sign off on a convicted felon.

 

[jscflyer]

Be Honest My Friend.

I myself have a felony arrest record and it did not prevent me from getting a job with a 121 Airline. My crime was just short of ten years old so I knew it was going to come up sooner or later. During my interview they asked me if there was anything that I wanted to talk about that I did not mention in my application. So I came clean and told them about my crime. In a humble manner I explained to them what I learned from the experience. It also helped that I stayed out of trouble since then. Out of the ten guys who I interviewed with last fall I was the only one who was hired . Most of those guys had tons of more experience than I had. The interviewers appreciated that I was honest with them. To top it all off, the Chief Pilot stood up and offered me the job on the spot. Talk about being blessed! My friend just be honest and put your faith in God. I know how you feel , I used to worry all the time that my crime ( Grand Theft) was going to prevent me from from getting an airline job. Well it did not! Pray to the Big Man. If he can help an old thief like me , I Know he can help you. I bet you know who 's your Daddy now!

 

[Snakum]

If what you say is true, and if what the TSA says is also true, you will soon be joining the unemployed. I'm not trying to be an ass, but if you're not BSing you WILL NOT PASS the TSA-mandated background check and you will be let go ... period. This info can befound all over the net with the applicable guidelines. If there are loopholes, please fill the rest of us in.

Enquiring minds want to know.

Minh

 

[cocknbull]

Armed or felony unarmed robbery is on the list. If its under ten years old I would be worried.

 

[Sir Humpalot]

if its over 10 years, would you be worried also?

Another stupid question, how do you guys get the personal avtars on the side of your messages?

 

[PlaneToSea]

Felony Conviction

Does anyone know how to get a copy of the TSA form that you fill out for a security/background check.

 

[StarrBuck]

I agree with JSCFLYER, honest is the best policy.. Firstly there is no way that you can be absolutley sure how airline X is going to do their background checks.. If they find something that you didn't disclose you are sunk. Secondly by coming clean, it is a good chance for your integrity to come through in the interview. I know that it may seem like you wouldn't stand a chance, but if they like you in the interview AND they know that they can trust you because you came clean, you will be in a much better position.. Lastly, if you did get the job and didn't mention it, would you want to come to work for the next however many years wondering if someone is going to find out? Not me.. Good luck!!

S.B.

 

[lr23sic]

Where do the majors send your finger prints? do they go to the state or to the FBI? That can make a big difference. Any ideas how to get info from the FBI? or how to make them get expunge a record?

 

[want out]

I had a misdemeanor in 96 due to a nasty divorce situation. I ended pleading no contest. As part of the plea agreement it stated that I could expunge my record after one year. The year past and I went in and filled out the paper work to expunge the record. It was granted. However, I don't think it takes it off the FBI crime files. This is what is searched when they take your finger prints. I was employed a year ago at a major when they did the fingerprinting. I requested a copy of my record. The charges where on the record. Not suprising.

I'm not sure if I can get them off the FBI files? Anyone know?

I plan on just stating the facts if I get interviewed. I've never been in trouble before.

I'm also not sure what happens after 3 years when the 10 years will be up.

good luck to all

 

[acarpe3448]

I had a misdemeanor conviction in my background that I was very worried about. I tried to have it expunged but the law in Texas stated that if the conviction listed in terms of probation than you you could not. I found that checking the boxes in the affermitive, and giving a very honest explanation was best. When the big interview came with a major airline I was terrified that the background check might show it (it had been more than 10 years at this point) so in the interview after all of the questions had been asked of me, the pilots asked me if I had any additional questions or concerns, I used this time to explain my situation, these guys were appreciative of the honesty, and I still got the job offer. Good luck to you, with the new security I would not try to cover anything, talk to an attorney first, call an investigator and pay to have a background check done on yourself and then always be honest.

 

[b757driver]

More background questions

OK, what about a first offense, misdemeanor of battery/DV with only an arrest, case pending?

I have a friend that was literally framed in a domestic dispute where the police were called, he was arrested and charged and on advice from his attorney pled no contest in order to do a deal and avoid a conviction.

This person had absolutely no criminal history whatsoever and found himself in an almost impossible situation based on someone else's word and what the cops thought at the time. There were NO witnesses apart from the female who changed her story several times. The female was his wife! Unfortunately, even though she did NOT press charges, the city always prosecutes. He apparently held her wrists in a heated argument to calm her down/in self defense. This is still construed as DV and it's a known fact that when police arrive on the scene, someone is going to get arrested & go to jail. And it is usually the male.

The interesting thing here is that a few weeks later SHE wanted to reconcile (which they did & NO problems since then) but they could not get rid of the charge. Also, they both went to counseling and the male friend voluntarily went to anger management classes for 26 weeks!

The plea bargain was continue with anger management and complete, stay out of trouble until August and then the charge will be dismissed and the attorney will get the record expunged. This deal was reached with the city prosecutor because it was, in essence, not a stereotypical battery case.

This guy has gone to extraordinary lengths to do all this. He is back with his partner and really the law took on a life form of its own. He really deserves a break.

My question is, even though this is a misdemeanor and he has NOT been convicted of anything, he still did time and has an arrest record. He intends answering truthfully on the app (yes they are asking everything now - misdemeanors/felonies, guilty pleas, convictions and even no contest pleas), is this "blemish" and disclosure on the application going to screen him out with no chance to explain in a one-on-one interview? Also, what is the best way to word his answer under "if yes, explain in detail" on the app?

The alleged offense took place last Christmas and the only thing on record, at the moment, is the arrest for probable cause battery/DV.

If anyone else out there has had a similar situation or knows someone who has, would be grateful to pass on to this guy - good or bad outcomes, all welcome to tell their story.

Thanks.

 

[cocknbull]

For those of you worried about misdemeanors I would not worry about the FBI check. The FBI only knows what the state releases to them. MOST states only turn over felony convictions to the FBI. Check with your county's court to see what convictions are sent to the FBI. The airlines find out about misdemeanor convictions from county criminal records. When you fill out your application and you tell them what counties you have lived in for the past ten years the airlines check the county records for your social security numbers. If there is a match the record will show date, convictions, and degree of crime. to find out about what can be found on you, you will need the following:

1. County criminal record from every county you have lived in.
2. FBI fingerprint check. (not the state fingerprint check, unless this is the only state you have lived in)

For those of you who have misdomeanors and are scared about telling the airline. I say relax and tell the truth. I had an open container ticket from my senior year in high school. Most American men have had run ins with the law at some point in there life. Do not try to sugar coat your record by trying to justify braking the law. Your explination should take only a few seconds to explain what you did, what you learned, and how your better today becuase of it. Do not dig a whole by trying to make your crime seem less of a crime becuase of your state of mind or environment. If they have any other questions they will ask.

 

[b757driver]

Employment Application Question

cocknbull, thanks for yr advice. I think my friend knew most of that anyway (ie. post interview background checks etc.)

However, the point of asking the question was not what happens & to be honest. He knows all that and knows what to say if he gets as far as the interview.

He has an application with the VERY specific question:

Have you EVER been convicted, pleaded guilty or nolo contendere to a MISDEMEANOR or felony?

Considering the CURRENT disposition of the case, he needs to know SPECIFICALLY how he should answer this question. Apparently when he checked with the court clerk, the computer spat out the case #, charge and review date of Aug 11. So the case, as it stands, is pending. He also found out that he did NOT make any plea (he thought by signing that court paper to do a deal, it was no contest). The computer records show NO conviction, he certainly did not plead guilty and apparently, he did NOT even plead nolo. I'm no lawyer but looking @ the facts as they stand, morally and legally, he should respond NO to the question and if his interview is AFTER the Aug date, explain the situation upfront in the interview with papers to back it up.

This IS a very delicate situation - I have heard of countless cases of foul ups by court personnel with records being supposedly sealed and/or expunged - whatever - and things have been left out to hang. Professional. legal people DO make mistakes sometimes but usually it's their clients that continue to suffer.

As for not worrying about misdemeanors, why then do airlines bother asking? They never used to, now they ask all kinds of things. Next will be have you ever been arrested?

Unfortunately, in my friend's case he has been 'treated" guilty since the git go and has had an uphill battle to prove innocence. He relinquished that right when he realized that the odds were stacked against him and a conviction likely. Basically he got a slap on the hand and will probably have the charge/case dismissed next month. BUT in the meantime, he has to answer that Q and turn in the app. After what he has been through the past 9 months, this guy deserves a big break - and this opportunity could be it - provided this situation is handled right starting @ the application. By the time he gets to interview (if?), there will be a clearer picture and he has the ability to handle this in a one-on-one. But he needs to get there first and that depends on how high he "scores" and what he says on the app.
Any pilot-attorneys, para legals or such out there that could give a reasonable answer here. His own attorney, unfortunately, is very evasive and does not understand the issues involved.

Thanks a lot.