FEDEX or Alaska?

[Boxboy]

Leave Alaska for FEDEX

I have been with Alaska for 5 years and possibly upgrading in 3+ years. I have a good schedule but the pay is not enough to get by on the west coast, thanks to Kasher. I don't mind moving or even commuting for FEDEX. I don't have a crystal ball, but I want better career stability and pay (I know... so does everyone else). Would you leave Alaska for FEDEX?

 

[USMCFDX]

IF you leave, you would not be the first from Alaska with more than 5 years under their belt to make the move to Purple.

Very tough choice to make.

 

[mindride]

Can you honestly tell yourself that Alaska will be around until you retire? Im not bashing Alaska, I think that it is a fine company, but consider the fact when the economy slows down or takes a hit people are less likely to fly, where as commerce always depends on cargo. To me its a no brainer...

 

[SIR MILO]

this is exactly why ALaska needs to stop hiring people with a 1000pic and a 4 year, they work there awhile and realize the writing on the bathroom wall is true..

 

[G100driver]

Several guys left Alaska after the crash to greener pastures only to walk into furlough. I think you would be as "safe" as you can get at FEDEX, however.

Good luck. I do not blame you, however.

 

[Otto]

Have you run the numbers?

Using the info off of www.airlinepilotcentral.com, I ran the numbers of what you could expect at the two companys over the next 5 years. Granted, certain assumptions had to be made but I thought this represents a career track you could expect. Here is what I came up with. The first column is Alaska and the second is Fedex:

Year
6 FO $88,000 1 727 SO $54,000
7 FO 89,000 2 727 SO 70,000
8 FO 91,000 3 727 FO 109,000
9 Capt 144,000 4 727 FO 111,000
10 Capt 148,000 5 Wide FO 133,000

5 year total: $560,000 $477,000

So there you have it. You could possibly make almost $90,000 more at Alaska over 5 years than at Fedex, not to mention that three of those years you would have a good schedule and you would not have to mess with training and starting over at the bottom of a list. If you're looking over the next half decade, you can't say you want to move for the money. As far as being around in 30 years, I think Alaska is more resilient than most LCCs. The may merge with someone but you would certainly have a job. Just my 2 cents. (If you decide to stay, I need a silver bullet )

 

[Ih8AFYesmen]

Using the info off of www.airlinepilotcentral.com, I ran the numbers of what you could expect at the two companys over the next 5 years. Granted, certain assumptions had to be made but I thought this represents a career track you could expect. Here is what I came up with. The first column is Alaska and the second is Fedex:

Year
6 FO $88,000 1 727 SO $54,000
7 FO 89,000 2 727 SO 70,000
8 FO 91,000 3 727 FO 109,000
9 Capt 144,000 4 727 FO 111,000
10 Capt 148,000 5 Wide FO 133,000

5 year total: $560,000 $477,000

So there you have it. You could possibly make almost $90,000 more at Alaska over 5 years than at Fedex, not to mention that three of those years you would have a good schedule and you would not have to mess with training and starting over at the bottom of a list. If you're looking over the next half decade, you can't say you want to move for the money. As far as being around in 30 years, I think Alaska is more resilient than most LCCs. The may merge with someone but you would certainly have a job. Just my 2 cents. (If you decide to stay, I need a silver bullet )

Pretty good table, however the guys/gals at FedEx right now are moving over to FO of a wide body in their second year, which is $128/hr plus international overide if based in ANC. The question is, what is a better deal-junior captain on reserve at AS (screw scheduler's beeeaaaahtch) with 11 days off or wide body FO with atleast 14 days off and QOL?

 

[DiamondZ]

6 FO $88,000 1 727 SO $54,000
7 FO 89,000 2 727 SO 70,000
8 FO 91,000 3 727 FO 109,000
9 Capt 144,000 4 727 FO 111,000
10 Capt 148,000 5 Wide FO 133,000

5 year total: $560,000 $477,000

Umm a little update. The rates are a little better than APC has with DOS + 1,2,3

NOV 07 (DOS +1) 72s $56
NOV 08 (DOS +2) 72s $74 72f $111
NOV 09 (DOS +3) 72f $119 WBfo $140

At the rate of hiring (projected 300 this year) and aircraft acquisition (757, 777) there will be significant movement. Right now, staying at SO for 2 yrs would be purely personal choice and the right seat second year is extremely reasonable maybe right seat WB by end of yr 2. FWIW.

Z

 

[Otto]

Umm a little update. The rates are a little better than APC has with DOS + 1,2,3

NOV 07 (DOS +1) 72s $56
NOV 08 (DOS +2) 72s $74 72f $111
NOV 09 (DOS +3) 72f $119 WBfo $140

At the rate of hiring (projected 300 this year) and aircraft acquisition (757, 777) there will be significant movement. Right now, staying at SO for 2 yrs would be purely personal choice and the right seat second year is extremely reasonable maybe right seat WB by end of yr 2. FWIW.

Z

Thanks for the update...I wasn't sure if the figures were the latest when I created the table. It may be overly conservative with the Fedex track but I think conservative is the way to go when trying to make this decision. Many a pilot has left company A to go to company B, expecting the past and current movement at company B to continue, only to find the well has dried up when they get there. Still, he would probably be fine at Fedex. I'm envious...I'd love to have that decision to make.

 

[DiamondZ]

I agree that conservative is the way to go but being ultra conservative may cause you to miss out. Although comparing apples and oranges, if FedEx growth/movement halts I would imagine Alaska would have been affected as well therefore limiting movement to the left seat. Good dilemma to be in though. Good Luck.

 

[av8instyle]

I agree that conservative is the way to go but being ultra conservative may cause you to miss out. Although comparing apples and oranges, if FedEx growth/movement halts I would imagine Alaska would have been affected as well therefore limiting movement to the left seat. Good dilemma to be in though. Good Luck.

The three years he speaks of is pretty much assuming no movement for growth..retirement only. 65 may get in the way. Alaska pay was MUCH higher a couple of years ago. It will be much higher as soon as we get a contract signed. I wouldn't make any airline changes based on pay. It changes with every contract. I prefer to look at furlough protection (retirements), economic viability of the company, domiciles, and type of flying. If Fedex comes out ahead for an individual in these areas, then the money doesn't matter - right now it would be icing on the cake. If Alaska comes out on top with these choices, then I would suck it up and hope we get new pay rates soon. That much seniority is pretty good furlough protection. That would be tough to give up, even for Fedex. Alaska is not going anywhere soon. 75 years and counting, consistently profitable. They just need to share the wealth!

 

[av8instyle]

(If you decide to stay, I need a silver bullet )

Unfortunately, when our chief pilot got fired, so did the SB program. I actually have no idea what it takes to get a dude hired right now.

 

[mach none]

I ran the same type scenario for UPS and the numbers were very similar. I too was conservative because in my past, the movement was never the same as before I arrived. It was always slower. As one old timer told me years ago, the grass is always greener where you are.

With that said, FedEx has much more variety of flying and that would certainly be nice. FedEx will be around for some time to come and will most likely be the type of company that acquires other companies.
Alaska is a question mark in this regard. The past is certain no indicator of the future in this business and we are ripe for merger and it doesn't matter that other airlines don't have money. There is plenty available through private equity and banks willing to get a piece of the action.

 

[Boxboy]

All good post, but with that said I'll expand on my earlier post.

No doubt that Alaska flying is fun and "cushy". Mostly same time zones, mostly good layovers, nice equipment, and really good folks (did I say mostly) to fly with. I could not ask for anything more on the flying side or the people that I work with, that is once the doors are shut.

Here's my doubtful side of Alaska Airlines. I am aware of other airlines' management, atleast most of them-evil, greedy, self centered, arrogant, merciless, cowardly, fill in the rest.... IMHO, I really don't have faith that our management has the balls or the wit to grow this airlines and make it worthwhile for many of us to stick around. Like Mach said, we are a small airline. Yeah, we have a good niche in Alaska and Mexico but it won't be long before someone else will make a move to either compete with us or buy us out. You may say that it won't happen and that in the past, we were able to fend them off. If you think this way, you need to join the ranks of our management team because that's how arrogant Bill and the boys are. I don't want to be in a middle of a merger/buyout when I'm in my 50's. Again, I don't have a crystal ball.
Regarding FEDEX, need I or anyone say more. FEDEX is not immune from any of the dangers that the rest of the airline industry is exposed to. However, They have lots of cash and they can withstand more punishment than any other carrier out there, along with UPS. As long as there is internet and things to buy and sell, cargo will always be in demand. As long as China and all of these countries with cheap labor continue to produce the high-demand products, cargo movers will always be in demand.
I really can't say where there is green grass anymore in this business. For me, it's come down to putting food on the table and being able to support my family until my kids become independent. I'm just hedging my bets just like the rest of us. I think it's called survival instinct.

 

[mach none]

Good on you