FedEx hopefuls, please read

[capt. megadeth]

Do you think they should consider personalities for the urine test, too?



If they pass the simulator phase, they proceed to a panel interview, a situation based interview, and a battery of written tests. All of these include assessments of personality.

In my opinion, it would be nice if you got to do all of the phases and then if they really like you, maybe the fact that you were off on your airspeed a little (or whatever) and didn't correct fast enough wouldn't be that big of a deal. It is a shame that you could be a wonderful person and pilot and not get the job because you had a slightly bad day in the sim.

 

[blzr]

Unless you are a sim instructor, flying a sim isn't all that easy. Alot of the ones I have flown and the one I will be flying next month in STL are like trying to balance a beachball on your nose in a stiff breeze. I would LOVe to sit in a sim with the best pilot in the universe and see them sticking everything all at the same time.

 

[Echopapa]

"In my opinion, it would be nice if you got to do all of the phases and then if they really like you, maybe the fact that you were off on your airspeed a little (or whatever) and didn't correct fast enough wouldn't be that big of a deal. It is a shame that you could be a wonderful person and pilot and not get the job because you had a slightly bad day in the sim." Capt megadeth

Unlike an air carrier, pilots at FedEx do not interact with our constomers on a regular basis. We don't make funny intercom calls in flight nor stand by the cockpit door as the boxes deplane and smile. The primary concern when hired is technical competancy and trustworthyness. Personality goes a long way in life, but it should not and does not take precedence over your flying skills.

My heart goes out to anyone who busts a sim. We all have bad days...lord know's I've had more than my fair share of them. I have a close friend that busted the sim the first time and he went through round two and got hired. I supported him 100 percent. That said, I don't think that there should be any exceptions made for a great personality. Either you have the proficiency or you don't. If you can't pass the sim the first time, then do what you need to so that you can the next time. Extra sims, more flying, stress management techniques, what ever it is that you need to correct.

We absolutely should not be hiring people that, for whatever reason (including a bad day), fail to demonstrate a minimum level of flying proficiency.

 

[sandman2122]

Well said. Hiring folks because they're "nice" or "wonderful" as was mentioned earlier is not what we should encourage.....

 

[AlbieF15]

Brett Farve said once about his "streak" of losing on Turf to his arch-rival Minnesota...."it is what it is...."

That is interviewing. It ain't perfect. You get 30 minutes in a sim and/or an hour or so with some strangers to try to show your technical skills, interpersonal skills, and some of your personality. We all know some great pilots and guys who fell short, as well as a few "YGTBSM" types who slide through.

The fact is in my whopping less than 100 hour experience in the 727, you know how many times I've flown a vertical S? Exactly zero. Managing the auto pilot, keeping 3-D SA on position, etc are really more of what I find I am doing as an FO than hand flying. So...how valid is our sim screen at demonstrating who will be "good" at a more realistic workload? Heck...we can debate for hours how important basic instrument scan factors into ultimate pilot proficiency, but the simple fact is if you want to work at FedEx you WILL be evaluated for 30 minutes on a hand flown vertical S profile. So...if you want to work here...you know the drill. Hand fly, practice, get some sim coaching if you think you need it.

It is a real pain in the a$$ getting through an interview. We all know that. Hopefully the carrot is a great job and quality of life on the other end of the process.

Sim hard, work hard, fly safe....

 

[capt. megadeth]

Unlike an air carrier, pilots at FedEx do not interact with our constomers on a regular basis. We don't make funny intercom calls in flight nor stand by the cockpit door as the boxes deplane and smile. The primary concern when hired is technical competancy and trustworthyness. Personality goes a long way in life, but it should not and does not take precedence over your flying skills.

My heart goes out to anyone who busts a sim. We all have bad days...lord know's I've had more than my fair share of them. I have a close friend that busted the sim the first time and he went through round two and got hired. I supported him 100 percent. That said, I don't think that there should be any exceptions made for a great personality. Either you have the proficiency or you don't. If you can't pass the sim the first time, then do what you need to so that you can the next time. Extra sims, more flying, stress management techniques, what ever it is that you need to correct.

We absolutely should not be hiring people that, for whatever reason (including a bad day), fail to demonstrate a minimum level of flying proficiency.

I don't think being within ATP standards (ie. 30 feet high or 4 knots fast) and not correcting fast enough according to the instructor) does not constitute a "minimum level of flying proficiency". Of course you are going to correct but "fast enough" is very subjective. I don't know anyone who is dead on 100% of the time and I know that I get nervous during checkrides (nervousness which would be tenfold if I was interviewing for my dream job - FedEx). I have never had any issues in training, failed a checkride or had any incidents or accidents. That being said, it IS what it IS and I would give 200% in that 30 minutes and do whatever I had to do to prepare. I am not saying that if you don't have a scan and are consistently off you should pass because you are a nice guy/gal. There are airlines that don't even do a sim evaluation, their pilots are doing just fine and they got hired for having a good personality (don't all freak out here because I am not saying a sim eval is not necessary either). No, FedEx does not fly people but yes, you do need a personality so the other guy flying with you doesn't go nuts having to spend hours and hours with you!

 

[Maddog2]

Just wanted to say that I did the sim in Oct and never got the idea that you need to jerk the sim around with over aggressive corrections. If you go pulling that DC-10 sim around you will only screw yourself. It was extremely nose sensitive and in my two minute warm up I saw plenty of PIO's. The secret for me was 1 good sim prep to work on scan in an unfamiliar airplane, and also going to a friends house frequently to use his MS flight simulator with downloaded A300 and DC-10 panels to get the profile down and hone the scan. It seemed to me that being smooth while constantly making small corrections was the secret, as long as corrections were being made. I also verbalized my errors and what I was doing to correct. I never made any aggressive corrections, but was always correcting. The pre-sim stress level was unlike any my fellow interviewers and I have ever experienced, and obviously anyone can have a bad day. I was rejected by JB only 3 months earlier. That being said, I did a phone prep with Albie and his advice for the interview made a huge difference. Good luck to all.


M/D

 

[USNFDX]

Ok,

First of all, the sim is not pass/fail...huh, yup. You are scored using a point system. I think there are like a total of 115 points or so. Yes, there is a minimun score to pass the sim. but there are good passing scores and scrapeing by scores. Your sim score, just like your interview score and SBI score all go to a composite score.

So you see, you can "scrape by" on the sim and if you are a super great guy, and hit off at the interviews you will be hired. I have been told that the 1 V 2 interview carries the most weight of all the events. Have a great sim, tank the interview, it's a no go.

I flew with the guy who was in charge of the new hire eval sim about a year and a half ago. He said it's all about scan. Fedex feels that an individual must have a basic instrument scan.....everything else technical can be taught. The sim is all about bi crosschecks. Even the little holding drill is about your scan with a little bit distraction and some stress thrown in. You can totaly screw up you holding entry, hold on the wrong radial, and still pass. He said you would be surprised how many people get in an unusual attitude while trying to figure holding.

 

['72Gremlin]

Holding? No one said anything about holding! Will I need to dust off my whiz wheel too? Whatever it takes, I guess....

 

[blzr]

Doesn't their hold at MEM require an altitude and speed change in the hold?

 

[LEROY]

The holding may or may not require a speed and or altitude change (at least from the profile I did 2 1/2 yrs ago). You may get a descent to hold which requires a speed reduction per FAR holding airspeeds.

Not to hijack the thread, but in the schoolhouse yesterday I saw listings for two classes of 12 727 FEs per month thru March 05. Keep your heads up and your attitudes positive, sounds like we'll be hiring for a while...

BTW I FELT like I tanked the sim when I got done (had to go first); I thought I was hanging on to the tail of that Airbus. I've never been so stressed out in my whole life sittin' in the hotel room waiting for the go/nogo call.

Good luck to all!!!

 

[blzr]

Do they tell you in advance what sim you will fly for the interview? Didn't Shesha prep for the Airbus and get the DC-10?

 

[Falconjet]

No they don't tell you the type of sim you will get the eval in. You can get the eval in any of the sims (727, DC-10, Airbus) in the old training building. The evals are done in whatever sim happens to be scheduled for that day. It all depends on the training load on that sim and what is available. Prep in either an Airbus or the DC-10 would be most helpful though, as those seem to be the most commonly used for the evals.

I guess they could use the MD-11 sims over at the new campus, but I haven't heard of them ever using those. The MD schoolhouse has been jam packed for years so I doubt they ever have any free time to do the evals in there.

I think the interview phase of the process has moved to the new campus (th MD-11 school house off Airways) instead of being done in the old training building. I didn't realize that and dropped off a buddy at the old building and he ended up having to catch a bus over to the new campus for his interview. Great way to start the interview phase, running in late because you were dropped off at the wrong place! They were very understanding and he wasn't penalized for it. Must have added some stress to the interview though!

FJ

 

[b727captain]

AlbieF15 please check your PM...thanks

 

[Crossky]

It seems like if they're really going to simulate the FedEx experience, they should make you stay up all night eating junk food and coffee, and then make you shoot an approach to mins at dawn's first light.Shisha--sorry about your experience....perseverance will pay in the end.

I totally agree with UALjan15. FEDEX sim ride is the way it is - till they change it. If you need to use quick, constant, and aggressive corrections and 'strive for perfection' because they judge you against a standard which is 'tighter than ATP STD's' that's their right but I don't agree with it.

Fly that way with pax and the FA's will notice it. Fly that way with boxes and they still won't say a thing. There are other ways for them to see what kind of character, resolve, and tenacity you have. Other important pilot skills come to mind too, how about decision making, SA, and CRM? Not placing much importance on a hold entry is silly - the box could fail at 4 AM, the autopilot could too, however. Is that why they want you to be able to hand fly w/o FD absolutely perfectly? I doubt it, it's just another hurdle to jump over.

Sorry, but if they really want you to leave the box sweating and humbled, crawling out, that's wrong too. Although that's the way I would probably be ha ha. The most they are entitled to expect from you IMHO is a sincere show of gratitude for the opportunity and a confidence which isn't shakened.

You can probably tell I'm not a FEDEX hopeful, these are just my observations, no offense or disrespect intended.

 

[Rook]

Hey Shisha,

First off thanks for sharing your experience at Federal Express. And also thanks for not making excuses. I'm sure no one was out to get you, just a bad day. You learn from it and I'm sure you'll be a poolie soon.

 

[igneousy2]

Sorry Shisha, I know you'll be back soon.

Crossky, they have thousands of applications, even if half of the guys are butt-heads and the other half are great people, that still leaves thousands of applicants. Some of these applicants CAN hold an airbus sim to within 20 feet of altitude and still be smooth. If you are FEDEX and have to select 20 pilots from thousands to fill your class, all great pilots, with extensive qualifications and internal recommendations, would you pick the one who could hold the alitude to within 20 feet or 50 feet with equal smoothness. Maybe if the other majors start expanding gang-busters and FEDEX isn't so appealing to people will they have to start hiring guys that can hold it to 50 feet or even 75 feet.

They are so picky because they can be.

Later

 

[Dinger]

Here's my humble opinion (very humble, since I just got the letter of rejection one hour and fourty-seven minutes ago).

The interview process is very straight-forward. The sim is a fair eval. Obviously, the stress you put on yourself doesn't help. My sim went well, or so I believe. I was, however, unable to show the PI and SBI interviewers the person they were looking for. Like anyone else, I went home initially with a good feeling of my overall performance. As time eeked bye (a very long 7 days) I began going over (and over, and over......) the PI and SBI. Twinges of doubt began to creep. I still thought my performance overall was worthy of an offer of employment. I guess I was wrong.

The clock has started it's 12-month countdown. Time to regroup and find a better way to prove that I would be an asset.

It is going to be a little more difficult to climb into the plane today with a good outlook. I am just thankful that I like the people I work with and get to enjoy their company for at least another 12 months.