FedEx hopefuls, please read

[sean67]

SHISHA
Sorry about you experience as well. I plan on heeding to your advice. Good kuck to all in January.sean

 

[hoya saxa]

Fed-EX ...Fed-EX

I prefer "fEd==eX"

 

[sandman2122]

Anyone can have a bad day - in our case; a bad sim check, flight or ground eval. I'd still like to meet the pilot who thinks they're invulnerable to busting any evaluation, flight or ground.

Doesn't matter what your background might be, everyone is prone to screwing up! From Top Gun/Red Flag AF types, to corporate guys to lowly AF global heavy airlift guys (that's me!), it simply depends on how bad's the mistake and if there's someone who caught it (ATC or a Line Check Airman)......

Don't lose sleep over it or waste time "chair-flying"....

 

[Shisha]

It was a fair evaluation

They do brief you prior that the eval is NOT ATP standards...they're tighter. I agree with TonyC that it is objective. And I agree with Albie that luck is where preparation meets opportunity. For those who question how the eval is done, I would humbly submit please don't question the system but rather try to understand and appreciate their system to maximize success. Falconjet makes a great point...don't jack the power all around because you could end up chasing the jet. I mentioned "aggressively correct to profile" when a better phrase is probably "be prompt and deliberate." I feel like I'm rambling on this issue, but it's important...it's important to sean67 and others who are booking tickets for upcoming interviews. One final thought. It goes something like this...you're on alt, heading but your a/s is 4-5kts fast. If he doesn't see you making a redux in power within 5 or so seconds...that's a pretty major hit. It could say that you're "satisfied" with that a/s after he notices that you've noticed your a/s and still haven't made a correction. If you're not willing to work hard then, what says you're willing to work hard shooting an appch at 4am in bad weather. Just a thought. Please listen to Albie, TonyC, Falconjet and others...I do and always will. Seek to understand the process and get the prep w/ Albie. Thanks for the kind thoughts.

 

[1-tacan-rule]

What w/confession being good for the sould and all..

"My name is 1-T-R, and I'm a Fedex sim flunkie"...now altogether: "Hi, 1-T-R!"

Now that we got through that, I feel like I'm among friends and can bear my soul. I have 4500+ MEJ, CRM director background, and flew as a military flight instructor with FalconJet (looking at FalconJets avatar, you don't need to be Jim Rockford to figure out my specific background). Several months back I headed to MEM to show them boys in purple that I was the right guy for the job.

Spent $600 practicing the profile in an Airbus sim ('cause all the AF gouge said that's what we'd be in. note: don't trust the AF, my sim was in the DC10) and several flights practicing in another sim. Paid Albie the best $XXX dollars I've ever spent for interview prep. Checked into hotel vice staying at one of the houses of one of my many FDX buds because I wanted to get/keep my "game face" on. I WAS ready.

Fast forward to two hours after my sim (that I knew had gone rough). "Mr 1TR, bad news, it didnt' go well today" Next began what I call my 6 hour "ride of shame" back to my home base (I had rented a car to reduce the risk of my 10 year old car breaking down enroute MEM). All that prep was good...glad I did it...but EVERYONE has a bad day.

What is the same today as it was before my sim ride?
-My kids still love when I give them rasberries on their bellies
-My wife still enjoys an occasional game of "look what I found"
-I'm still a good pilot, who over the years stopped alot of bad guys and found alot of good guys
-Fedex is still an awesome company both from the employee perspective (I imagine, and hope one day to experience) and certainly from the customer perspective
-Fedex training guys are best in world
-Life goes on...and there IS a master plan

I'll be back.....

P.S. Was everyone else as iritated by FalconJets instructional methods verbiage on A/S, altitude, VSI? Believe me, I worked with him for two years in a Training/Standards branch...he drove us all to drink. (kidding of course Ricardo)

 

[GasPasser]

Thank you all for the info/advice/cautions! I'm hoping to be called to MEM sometime in '05. Sounds like I have a lot more preparing to do than I first imagined!

 

[zonker]

I understand the idea of not accepting 5/10 knots or 50/100 feet, but if FedEx is advocating the idea of prospective pilots to constantly jockey the the throttles/yoke in the pursuit of perfection...obviously that isn't good pilot technique, either.

Reminds me of the time when United decided that their prospective pilots would fly no less than perfect in the sim. And if they didn't, they we're booted.

Everyone is human, and when you make a mistake, you say so and correct it.

Also. Maybe I read the initial post wrong. But if personalities are not considered in the FedEx sim eval, I think that's a mistake. After all, you're planning to fly with these people, correct?

 

[TonyC]

... But if personalities are not considered in the FedEx sim eval, I think that's a mistake.

Do you think they should consider personalities for the urine test, too?



If they pass the simulator phase, they proceed to a panel interview, a situation based interview, and a battery of written tests. All of these include assessments of personality.

 

[Whale Rider]

Shisha,

Keep the Faith Buddy! I've been there. This is America and you will get another shot.

 

[zonker]

Do you think they should consider personalities for the urine test, too?



If they pass the simulator phase, they proceed to a panel interview, a situation based interview, and a battery of written tests. All of these include assessments of personality.

It's a given that they pass the urine test. They wouldn't walk through the door if they couldn't.

We are professionals, aren't we?

The sim/testing phase is a small part of it. Being a pilot is a personality test as well as a demonstration of airmanship. Many irritating people can jerk the controls. Someone you can spend time with for 4 days is pretty high in my book.

Hiring someone who will be a good employee and friendly co-worker is the real test.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Do you think they should consider personalities for the urine test, too?



If they pass the simulator phase, they proceed to a panel interview, a situation based interview, and a battery of written tests. All of these include assessments of personality.

In my opinion, it would be nice if you got to do all of the phases and then if they really like you, maybe the fact that you were off on your airspeed a little (or whatever) and didn't correct fast enough wouldn't be that big of a deal. It is a shame that you could be a wonderful person and pilot and not get the job because you had a slightly bad day in the sim.

 

[blzr]

Unless you are a sim instructor, flying a sim isn't all that easy. Alot of the ones I have flown and the one I will be flying next month in STL are like trying to balance a beachball on your nose in a stiff breeze. I would LOVe to sit in a sim with the best pilot in the universe and see them sticking everything all at the same time.

 

[Echopapa]

"In my opinion, it would be nice if you got to do all of the phases and then if they really like you, maybe the fact that you were off on your airspeed a little (or whatever) and didn't correct fast enough wouldn't be that big of a deal. It is a shame that you could be a wonderful person and pilot and not get the job because you had a slightly bad day in the sim." Capt megadeth

Unlike an air carrier, pilots at FedEx do not interact with our constomers on a regular basis. We don't make funny intercom calls in flight nor stand by the cockpit door as the boxes deplane and smile. The primary concern when hired is technical competancy and trustworthyness. Personality goes a long way in life, but it should not and does not take precedence over your flying skills.

My heart goes out to anyone who busts a sim. We all have bad days...lord know's I've had more than my fair share of them. I have a close friend that busted the sim the first time and he went through round two and got hired. I supported him 100 percent. That said, I don't think that there should be any exceptions made for a great personality. Either you have the proficiency or you don't. If you can't pass the sim the first time, then do what you need to so that you can the next time. Extra sims, more flying, stress management techniques, what ever it is that you need to correct.

We absolutely should not be hiring people that, for whatever reason (including a bad day), fail to demonstrate a minimum level of flying proficiency.

 

[sandman2122]

Well said. Hiring folks because they're "nice" or "wonderful" as was mentioned earlier is not what we should encourage.....

 

[AlbieF15]

Brett Farve said once about his "streak" of losing on Turf to his arch-rival Minnesota...."it is what it is...."

That is interviewing. It ain't perfect. You get 30 minutes in a sim and/or an hour or so with some strangers to try to show your technical skills, interpersonal skills, and some of your personality. We all know some great pilots and guys who fell short, as well as a few "YGTBSM" types who slide through.

The fact is in my whopping less than 100 hour experience in the 727, you know how many times I've flown a vertical S? Exactly zero. Managing the auto pilot, keeping 3-D SA on position, etc are really more of what I find I am doing as an FO than hand flying. So...how valid is our sim screen at demonstrating who will be "good" at a more realistic workload? Heck...we can debate for hours how important basic instrument scan factors into ultimate pilot proficiency, but the simple fact is if you want to work at FedEx you WILL be evaluated for 30 minutes on a hand flown vertical S profile. So...if you want to work here...you know the drill. Hand fly, practice, get some sim coaching if you think you need it.

It is a real pain in the a$$ getting through an interview. We all know that. Hopefully the carrot is a great job and quality of life on the other end of the process.

Sim hard, work hard, fly safe....

 

[capt. megadeth]

Unlike an air carrier, pilots at FedEx do not interact with our constomers on a regular basis. We don't make funny intercom calls in flight nor stand by the cockpit door as the boxes deplane and smile. The primary concern when hired is technical competancy and trustworthyness. Personality goes a long way in life, but it should not and does not take precedence over your flying skills.

My heart goes out to anyone who busts a sim. We all have bad days...lord know's I've had more than my fair share of them. I have a close friend that busted the sim the first time and he went through round two and got hired. I supported him 100 percent. That said, I don't think that there should be any exceptions made for a great personality. Either you have the proficiency or you don't. If you can't pass the sim the first time, then do what you need to so that you can the next time. Extra sims, more flying, stress management techniques, what ever it is that you need to correct.

We absolutely should not be hiring people that, for whatever reason (including a bad day), fail to demonstrate a minimum level of flying proficiency.

I don't think being within ATP standards (ie. 30 feet high or 4 knots fast) and not correcting fast enough according to the instructor) does not constitute a "minimum level of flying proficiency". Of course you are going to correct but "fast enough" is very subjective. I don't know anyone who is dead on 100% of the time and I know that I get nervous during checkrides (nervousness which would be tenfold if I was interviewing for my dream job - FedEx). I have never had any issues in training, failed a checkride or had any incidents or accidents. That being said, it IS what it IS and I would give 200% in that 30 minutes and do whatever I had to do to prepare. I am not saying that if you don't have a scan and are consistently off you should pass because you are a nice guy/gal. There are airlines that don't even do a sim evaluation, their pilots are doing just fine and they got hired for having a good personality (don't all freak out here because I am not saying a sim eval is not necessary either). No, FedEx does not fly people but yes, you do need a personality so the other guy flying with you doesn't go nuts having to spend hours and hours with you!

 

[Maddog2]

Just wanted to say that I did the sim in Oct and never got the idea that you need to jerk the sim around with over aggressive corrections. If you go pulling that DC-10 sim around you will only screw yourself. It was extremely nose sensitive and in my two minute warm up I saw plenty of PIO's. The secret for me was 1 good sim prep to work on scan in an unfamiliar airplane, and also going to a friends house frequently to use his MS flight simulator with downloaded A300 and DC-10 panels to get the profile down and hone the scan. It seemed to me that being smooth while constantly making small corrections was the secret, as long as corrections were being made. I also verbalized my errors and what I was doing to correct. I never made any aggressive corrections, but was always correcting. The pre-sim stress level was unlike any my fellow interviewers and I have ever experienced, and obviously anyone can have a bad day. I was rejected by JB only 3 months earlier. That being said, I did a phone prep with Albie and his advice for the interview made a huge difference. Good luck to all.


M/D

 

[USNFDX]

Ok,

First of all, the sim is not pass/fail...huh, yup. You are scored using a point system. I think there are like a total of 115 points or so. Yes, there is a minimun score to pass the sim. but there are good passing scores and scrapeing by scores. Your sim score, just like your interview score and SBI score all go to a composite score.

So you see, you can "scrape by" on the sim and if you are a super great guy, and hit off at the interviews you will be hired. I have been told that the 1 V 2 interview carries the most weight of all the events. Have a great sim, tank the interview, it's a no go.

I flew with the guy who was in charge of the new hire eval sim about a year and a half ago. He said it's all about scan. Fedex feels that an individual must have a basic instrument scan.....everything else technical can be taught. The sim is all about bi crosschecks. Even the little holding drill is about your scan with a little bit distraction and some stress thrown in. You can totaly screw up you holding entry, hold on the wrong radial, and still pass. He said you would be surprised how many people get in an unusual attitude while trying to figure holding.

 

['72Gremlin]

Holding? No one said anything about holding! Will I need to dust off my whiz wheel too? Whatever it takes, I guess....

 

[blzr]

Doesn't their hold at MEM require an altitude and speed change in the hold?