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Fed Ex furlough

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A couple of questions. Did Management take pay cuts? If they did, that is not good for your pilot group. Also, I read that they want to bring the monthly averages down to 48 hours per month of flying. Can people pick up time above that? If they can, and they are senior, they will do just that. They couldn't care any less about the junior pilots. That is a given at all carriers. A friend of mine flying there said the "Purple Nuggests" (or newhires on the MD11) will probably be displaced to the 727FE spot, which should be interesting. Good luck to you guys.
 
Heavy Set said:
A couple of questions. Did Management take pay cuts?
Click to expand...

Yes.

5 percent reduction in base pay.
No raises for at least one year.
401k match will be suspended starting in Feb.
Incentive compensation suspended (maybe eliminated, couldn't remember because I never count on it).

I don't make that much at all, but all told, those 4 items will add up to about 8k for me for the year. That's about a 17 percent cut, figuring total compensation. Multiply by all of the managers at ALL of the operating companies, and we're talking about a lot of money. Hourly loses the 401k match, that's it. Unionized employees I would imagine are next.
 
Fred took a 20% pay cut. Various other management levels took 10-7.5% pay cuts. The worker bees took a 5% pay cut, so everyone is sharing the pain....
 
rajflyboy said:
What part of "Fedex is making a Profit" do you NOT understand?

The statements you make would be true if the company was not making money but thats simply not the case.
Click to expand...


What part of forecasting do you not understand? A company that actually looks forward at projected business is a smart company. Do you want them to be proactive or reactive?

Read the entire post next time, and you won't look so dumb when you respond.
 
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I was talking with one of the FED-EX truckers and they are getting furlough news already on the ground side. It was only a matter of time before it happened to the aircraft side. UPS will be next.
 
Apparently overnight express mail is way down, and 2-3 day is increasing, but that is mainly trucked. Also, a lot of major Fedex customers are going away, like Lehmans. Not good.
 
Milky,

Sorry to have jammed on you in a previous post.

It appears you have a grasp on many things. I would tend to agree with many of your observations.

Now....What level of Management are you? And, in what business?

Or, are you just a Student thereof?

No slam intended. Your statements and observations merit the discussion.

YKMKR
 
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DH2WN said:
Amen.... You can blame our SWA "brother" for that one.
Click to expand...

40% of us voted "NO" amigo. Kind of like "JL" spoke for all of your "brothers" of few years ago when I could not get a job there because I was a "legacy" guy who must have passed on FDX back in the day. Often the broad brush is not accurate..
 
RockyMnt1 said:
Fred took a 20% pay cut. Various other management levels took 10-7.5% pay cuts. The worker bees took a 5% pay cut, so everyone is sharing the pain....
Click to expand...
Actually, the worker bees didn't take a pay cut... yet. Managers took a 5% pay cut.

Us pilots have already taken a pay cut... Six months before Fred announced his and the other executives. Our BLGs were reduced from an average of 75 to 68. that is already a 10% pay cut. Now they're looking to drop them to a minimum of 48. That's 30% from where we are now, and 36% from last year. We've given as much as a high level executive has given, and now they're looking to take a greater percentage than even Fred has taken. I say no...
 
Sluggo_63 said:
Actually, the worker bees didn't take a pay cut... yet. Managers took a 5% pay cut.

Us pilots have already taken a pay cut... Six months before Fred announced his and the other executives. Our BLGs were reduced from an average of 75 to 68. that is already a 10% pay cut. Now they're looking to drop them to a minimum of 48. That's 30% from where we are now, and 36% from last year. We've given as much as a high level executive has given, and now they're looking to take a greater percentage than even Fred has taken. I say no...
Click to expand...

The first grain of truth in this whole thread. We took a pay cut waaay before anyone else.

The manning problem was their creation. Everyone saw it coming. Mistake #1 was having ANY bids after the age 60 rule changed. Those dudes would have quit if they had been left to rot at their panels.

PIPE
 
Heavy Set said:
Apparently overnight express mail is way down, and 2-3 day is increasing, but that is mainly trucked. Also, a lot of major Fedex customers are going away, like Lehmans. Not good.
Click to expand...

The sentiment seems more will go to Ground. Cost/time seems to favor cost as shipping budgets tighten. So they will save a bundle going Ground. We run lean and yield is good, but it takes away from Express. That's why you're seeing all of this. Demand for Express is down, cost is high, and management is trying to stay ahead of it within reason. The LTL bloodbath continues, and that's why you are seeing layoffs at Freight. Of all this, I am curious how Office will fare, being different than all of the other opco's.
 
milky said:
What part of forecasting do you not understand? A company that actually looks forward at projected business is a smart company. Do you want them to be proactive or reactive?

Read the entire post next time, and you won't look so dumb when you respond.
Click to expand...

Treat your employee's like crap when you are making huge profits. Looking short term and completely forgetting the long term picture. Sounds like a way to lose moral and tick off a lot of people. Forecasts almost never prove to be accurate. I spent 4 years in college waisting my time on building forecasts for my business professor's. They obviously didn't understand the "Real World".
 
rajflyboy said:
Treat your employee's like crap when you are making huge profits. Looking short term and completely forgetting the long term picture. Sounds like a way to lose moral and tick off a lot of people. Forecasts almost never prove to be accurate. I spent 4 years in college waisting my time on building forecasts for my business professor's. They obviously didn't understand the "Real World".
Click to expand...


Damn dude is Fedex your first airline? Wake up!!!!!
Again, no one in management cares about you or your family. Do you honestly think that Fedex or any other company will keep employees around just for good will? It does not matter if your company is making money or not. It's about stock price.

I'm not slamming Fedex but I think you need to get over the "Ill will" and "company profit" mantra. We are in a world wide recession bordering on depression. If you think premium package delivery companies will not be effected by this you need to get a refund from your business school.

Ps. I know someone will say that SWA kept employees after 911, and that is true. BUT that was for a very short term and then SWA took advantage of all the other airlines drastic cuts to increase their market share. I don't see Fedex increasing market share much.
 
rajflyboy said:
Treat your employee's like crap when you are making huge profits. Looking short term and completely forgetting the long term picture. Sounds like a way to lose moral and tick off a lot of people. Forecasts almost never prove to be accurate. I spent 4 years in college waisting my time on building forecasts for my business professor's. They obviously didn't understand the "Real World".
Click to expand...

Again, you don't get it at all.

I will be waisting[sic] my time to try to explain to you how childish this statement is. Companies do have incentive to not just demoralize their work force for no reason, but they also have to answer to the shareholders for future profits, not past profits. If they believe they are not going have the same revenue because of lack of demand for their service, the managers must reduce costs. In this case, unused pilot labor costs are probably quite costly. I agree with you that if they continuously furlough and recall, it may eventually cause pilots to stop applying to FedEx because of lack of job security. But, I would venture a guess that even if they furloughed 1000 people today and opened up their application online at the same time, they would receive thousands of applications. So, I think that they are not currently concerned about the supply of labor. They are concerned with the bottom line because that is why a business exists.

I'll say it again, companies do not exist to provide jobs. Companies exist to make a profit. The executives at your company are paid to make a profit. Creating jobs is a fortunate byproduct of the process.

So, if the managers at FedEx believe that they will not make enough money to utilize their pilot labor enough to keep them off of furlough, they have a fudiciary responsibility to the shareholders to furlough. Kind of ironic if you were a pilot there and a shareholder.

Nobody wants to see anybody cut jobs, but let's be grownups about the process. There is no evil conspiracy to ruin your life as a pilot by some evil manager cult. Poorly or well, the managers of companies are trying to keep their companies profitable on good and bad years. Looks like people think this is going to be a pretty rough one.
 
milky said:
Again, you don't get it at all...

...In this case, unused pilot labor costs are probably quite costly...
Click to expand...
You don't get it at all...
First, we already took a pay cut on par with the senior executives, percentage-wise. Second, the union approached the company over a year ago trying to mitigate the effects of the alleged over-manning. They company stone-walled them, put them off, and refused to discuss the issue. Now, they want relief form the contract over night. Third, they are violating the intent of our contract that they themselved signed. Lastly, it is most people's contention that it would cost them MORE to furlough than it would to just pay us our contratually agreed to minimum bid period guarantee.
 
Sluggo_63 said:
You don't get it at all...
First, we already took a pay cut on par with the senior executives, percentage-wise. Second, the union approached the company over a year ago trying to mitigate the effects of the alleged over-manning. They company stone-walled them, put them off, and refused to discuss the issue. Now, they want relief form the contract over night. Third, they are violating the intent of our contract that they themselved signed. Lastly, it is most people's contention that it would cost them MORE to furlough than it would to just pay us our contratually agreed to minimum bid period guarantee.
Click to expand...

So........ you contend that is cheaper to pay 700 pilots guarantee, retirement, health benefits, LTD and STD than it is to furlough 700 guys for three or so years and then recall 150 a year to cover attrition? Huh if that were the case than why does any airline ever furlough?

Management doesn't care how much it will cost to retrain pilots in say three years. The care what is going to happen now and in maybe a year in advance.

But time will tell. You guys will probably be right and Fedex will carry 700 or so pilots for the next three years or so. That won't cost too much.
 
m80drvr said:
So........ you contend that is cheaper to pay 700 pilots guarantee, retirement, health benefits, LTD and STD than it is to furlough 700 guys for three or so years and then recall 150 a year to cover attrition? Huh if that were the case than why does any airline ever furlough?

Management doesn't care how much it will cost to retrain pilots in say three years. The care what is going to happen now and in maybe a year in advance.

But time will tell. You guys will probably be right and Fedex will carry 700 or so pilots for the next three years or so. That won't cost too much.
Click to expand...
You're right... I should listen to you... It's not about retraining F/O's in 3 years. It's about the immediate decimation of their system, and all the cost involved with getting everyone in the right seat to furlough. FedEx screwed themselves when they let the aircraft seats get so out of whack, seniority wise. We have really junior pilots in the MD-11 in ANC and in the A300 in HKG, while more junior pilots hang out in the right and back seats of the 727. So... let's see... if FedEx lops off the bottom 700 pilots, they lose over 50% of the F/O's in ANC and all but 5 A300 F/O's in HKG. So what FedEx needs to do is have an excess bid that aligns the seats in what would be considered a more 'normal' seniority order. Junior guys in the back of the 727, more senior guys in the right seat of the 727 and 757, then more senior guys in the right seat of the widebodys, etc. They tried that last year. The resulting bid had thousands of training events and the training letter would have taken upwards of 2 years to work through. They subsequently cancelled that bid because it was too costly. Add that to the fact that as soon as they start excessing people out of ANC and HKG, they are having to buy houses as part of the move package, pay relocation expenses, etc. Some people estimated it would cost FedEx over $110 million just to align the seats in order to get to a place where they could furlough without destroying system form. The line buyups were costing about $1 million a month. So, using my basic math, they could buy up the lines for 110 months and just break even on the cost of the realignment bid. That doesn't even include the cost of retraining.

But you're right... what the heck do I know... we should just eat the additional pay cut without asking any questions...
 
I flew into Jackson Hole the other day a saw N3FE parked next to us and Mr. Smith and his family boarding up... must not be that bad
 
Actually I think we can blame ALPA, and Prater "Taking it back", for that one.
Click to expand...
Prater and his greedy pig friends took it back...for themselves. Everybody junior just took it in the a$$.

By the way, how much money is Fedex having to waste on training cycles for the herpes to move back to the left seat???
 
milky said:
Again, you don't get it at all.

I will be waisting[sic] my time to try to explain to you how childish this statement is. Companies do have incentive to not just demoralize their work force for no reason, but they also have to answer to the shareholders for future profits, not past profits. If they believe they are not going have the same revenue because of lack of demand for their service, the managers must reduce costs. In this case, unused pilot labor costs are probably quite costly. I agree with you that if they continuously furlough and recall, it may eventually cause pilots to stop applying to FedEx because of lack of job security. But, I would venture a guess that even if they furloughed 1000 people today and opened up their application online at the same time, they would receive thousands of applications. So, I think that they are not currently concerned about the supply of labor. They are concerned with the bottom line because that is why a business exists.

I'll say it again, companies do not exist to provide jobs. Companies exist to make a profit. The executives at your company are paid to make a profit. Creating jobs is a fortunate byproduct of the process.

So, if the managers at FedEx believe that they will not make enough money to utilize their pilot labor enough to keep them off of furlough, they have a fudiciary responsibility to the shareholders to furlough. Kind of ironic if you were a pilot there and a shareholder.

Nobody wants to see anybody cut jobs, but let's be grownups about the process. There is no evil conspiracy to ruin your life as a pilot by some evil manager cult. Poorly or well, the managers of companies are trying to keep their companies profitable on good and bad years. Looks like people think this is going to be a pretty rough one.
Click to expand...


You are the idiot that doesn't get it. FEDEX is still making money and in fact they have enough money to sponsor the FEDEX BCS bowl championship game >> Yet they are laying off people. Forecasts can't be counted on. They are just a "Best Guess" at the future. A Future that none of us can predict for certain.

If you treat employee's fairly you will maintain a good working relationship with them. If you just dump them on the street then all hell will break loose. Just basic common sense.

Forecasts ..... anyone that has a brain and has a business degree understands the limits of these things.

Many companies right now are using this "Economy" as an EXCUSE to put people on the street. At the same time they are making a profit. You will not convince me anything different.
 
Many companies right now are using this "Economy" as an EXCUSE to put people on the street. At the same time they are making a profit. You will not convince me anything different.
Click to expand...

Raj you are dead on the mark. There has been a term being thrown around quite a bit lately. Never let a good crisis pass you by.

What this means (for those of you with a narrow scope of the world) is that companies are doing things to align themselves for the next upswing and accomplish mission plans that they could never even think of doing during the good times. The pissed off employees and low moral would kill them if they tried this a couple of years ago. Now its "well the damn economy is making us do this". Its complete and utter BS.

They have lowered the expectation bar with fear and loathing. Sure the economy sucks but the american people and the world have become desensitized by low profit earnings and bad news. Now is the time to write the bad debt off the books and engage plans that are kept in that secret folder that says, "open when you can make them believe the world has gone to crap and you can get more out of them"

The idea of furloughs is laughable but hey the company is getting exactly what they wanted. Lowered expectations.
 
Diesel said:
Raj you are dead on the mark. There has been a term being thrown around quite a bit lately. Never let a good crisis pass you by.

What this means (for those of you with a narrow scope of the world) is that companies are doing things to align themselves for the next upswing and accomplish mission plans that they could never even think of doing during the good times. The pissed off employees and low moral would kill them if they tried this a couple of years ago. Now its "well the damn economy is making us do this". Its complete and utter BS.

They have lowered the expectation bar with fear and loathing. Sure the economy sucks but the american people and the world have become desensitized by low profit earnings and bad news. Now is the time to write the bad debt off the books and engage plans that are kept in that secret folder that says, "open when you can make them believe the world has gone to crap and you can get more out of them"

The idea of furloughs is laughable but hey the company is getting exactly what they wanted. Lowered expectations.
Click to expand...

Raj and diesel... spot on... guys like Milky have read a few books and believe they have it all figured out...

Sure it sounds good on paper, but the human factor is never really considered...

9/11 was another crises example.... the down swing in travel had already begun... When 9/11 happened it was more than management could hoped for.... and they milked it for all it was worth....

Crises management is the new way of doing business....
 
rajflyboy said:
If you treat employee's fairly you will maintain a good working relationship with them. If you just dump them on the street then all hell will break loose. Just basic common sense.
Click to expand...

Raj:

I agree with you in principle. However, FedEx is my 5th (and hopefully last) airline, and with all honesty I can say: It appears FedEX could not care less how it treats its most important (not trying to be vain) employee group.

I started at Great Lakes, which anyone whos flown there will tell you that management team took great pleasure in royally pissing off the pilots. FedEx management appears to have come from the same training program.

Our management could learn a LOT from Southwest's philosophy of trying ones best to keep the employees happy.

I'd feel much more inclined into putting some additional effort (and morality:sick calls, etc) into this job, if I didn't feel like my management team's sole purpose is to make life as unpleasant as possible. Red Letters, insults/threats from management, and blatantly ignoring our contract simply do not create an employee who gives a rats ass about his employer. Under those circumstances, to quote one of my role models, "But you know, Bob, that will only make someone work just hard enough not to get fired."

I wish Herb would sit down and give Smith a good talking to.
 
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propjob27 said:
Raj:

I agree with you in principle. However, FedEx is my 5th (and hopefully last) airline, and with all honesty I can say: It appears FedEX could not care less how it treats its most important (not trying to be vain) employee group.

I started at Great Lakes, which anyone whos flown there will tell you that management team took great pleasure in royally pissing off the pilots. FedEx management appears to have come from the same training program.

Our management could learn a LOT from Southwest's philosophy of trying ones best to keep the employees happy.

I'd feel much more inclined into putting some additional effort (and morality:sick calls, etc) into this job, if I didn't feel like my management team's sole purpose is to make life as unpleasant as possible. Red Letters, insults/threats from management, and blatantly ignoring our contract simply do not create an employee who gives a rats ass about his employer. Under those circumstances, to quote one of my role models, "But you know, Bob, that will only make someone work just hard enough not to get fired."

I wish Herb would sit down and give Smith a good talking to.
Click to expand...

FDX is airline #4. They are working hard to be no better than anyone else (and doing a very good job).

PIPE
 

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