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FBI acknowledges mystery flights

  • Thread starter Thread starter Hubie
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Hubie

Member 9.6 mile high club
Joined
Jul 15, 2002
Posts
68
FBI acknowledges mystery flights

BLOOMINGTON, Indiana (AP) -- The FBI acknowledged that a small plane whose frequent, unexplained flights over the city had raised fears among some residents is being used by the agency to monitor people who might have terrorist connections.

Residents in this city of 69,000, home to the flagship campus of Indiana University, where more than 3,300 foreign students attend, have seen the white, single-engine Cessna 182 at least since February 19 making passes overhead about noon, in the late evening and after midnight.

Earlier in the week, when aviation officials disclosed that the aircraft was conducting surveillance, the FBI had denied any link to the plane.

Agent Thomas V. Fuentes said the FBI issued the denial because a reporter asked if the airplane is doing electronic surveillance, which it is not.

Fuentes and agent James H. Davis said the FBI is not aware of any threat to Bloomington or the state, but is watching many foreign nationals.

Several students at Indiana University have been questioned by FBI agents, university and agency officials confirmed. Agency spokesman Doug Garrison, however, would not say if those interviews were related to national security or the airplane's flights.

Besides individuals, Fuentes and Davis said, the aircraft is monitoring vehicles and businesses -- particularly those open late at night from which faxes or e-mails can be sent.

Fuentes said the aircraft is conducting surveillance flights over several communities near Indianapolis, the state capital.

Bloomington is about 40 miles (65 kilometers) south of Indianapolis.
 
So how long before the FBI gets its mitts on some of those cool drones the CIA is using complete with Hellfire missile?

Maybe it will field a specialized version of a J-Stars developed on say a BBJ, Global Express or G-V airframe to, Ahemmm… track terrorists?

Or begins to orbit it’s own spy satellites?

Thinks it’s far fetched? Imagine if we were discussion the possibilities of today’s environment say on Feb 28 of 1999 or 2000?

:(
 
Who are they trying to kid?! Jethro's got this one figured out.....
it is a double not spy plane from OSU Buckeyes spying on the mighty Hoosiers spring football practices.

The story seems odd to me. With all the trees (albeit leafless trees this time of year) Bloomington has it would be hard to track someone especially at night. With the spy technology around hard to imagine how flying a plane would be that beneficial. Maybe it is foreign students flying the plane!
 
I believe that UAV are not allowed to fly in controlled airspace. Don't quote me on that, it's just what I have heard.
 
ShawnC said:
I believe that UAV are not allowed to fly in controlled airspace. Don't quote me on that, it's just what I have heard.
Controlled, meaning other than Class G, then they're already there. Got a buddy who was intercepted by one near Galveston last year in Class E.
 
I think I saw one of their C-210s in TUS today.

Well unless anyone else is flying a 210 with a big big window on the left side cut into the body, with a guy back there, and a lot of extra antennas under the aircraft too.
 
FBI flights

Now now, fellas, let's not get paranoid here. the FBI typically uses C-182s for surveillance. Usually the most advanced equipment they have is a FLIR and some police radios.

Most missions include tailing vehicles, in case agents in other cars get ditched, or watching houses for activity. overall, it's basic tedious detective work.

when was the last time anybody freaked out about the police using choppers for essentially the same purposes?

a UAV would actually make more sense - cheaper per-hour cost, and probably harder to spot from the ground.

if you guys want to worry about government "Big Brother" tactics, worry about the TSA revoking your licenses without having to tell you why....

Captainv
 
Re: FBI flights

captainv said:
if you guys want to worry about government "Big Brother" tactics, worry about the TSA revoking your licenses without having to tell you why....
The TSA is a worthy concern. But the FBI has already demonstrated their expertise at activities like shooting, gassing and burning kids, e.g., Waco.
 
The TSA is a worthy concern. But the FBI has already demonstrated their expertise at activities like shooting, gassing and burning kids, e.g., Waco.

Shooting and burning kids? <sigh>, another one. It seems that you may have read have seen that propaganda in the form of a video or flyer from some whackos at a gun show. The FBI didn't start the fire and if any kids were shot, it was incidental to the EXCHANGE of gunfire with the Branch Daividians. Koresh and the Davidians are NOT the martyrs that some kids like to think.

You better watch out for those black helicopters piloted by the UN's Tri-Lateral commision, committee of foreign relations, Masonic, gay commie aliens trained by Janet Reno!
 
From VivaZapata:
"Shooting and burning kids? <sigh>, another one. It seems that you may have read have seen that propaganda in the form of a video or flyer from some whackos at a gun show. The FBI didn't start the fire and if any kids were shot, it was incidental to the EXCHANGE of gunfire with the Branch Daividians. Koresh and the Davidians are NOT the martyrs that some kids like to think.

You better watch out for those black helicopters piloted by the UN's Tri-Lateral commision, committee of foreign relations, Masonic, gay commie aliens trained by Janet Reno"!"


Ýou're right on man. Wonder what your opinion would be if John Ashcroft did the same thing to some "peaceful" Muslims? Go United Nations!
 
FBI

Boy, I just thank God every day for making me incapable of believing such a colossal load of cr@p. Do you mean that you honestly walk through life thinking that's what happened? What a sad, sad life that would be...


>>The TSA is a worthy concern. But the FBI has already demonstrated their expertise at activities like shooting, gassing and burning kids, e.g., Waco.
 
No Conspiracy!

What happened at Waco was horrifying to say the least, needless lives were lost on both sides of the equation and both are to blame.

The Davidians for not answering the original subpoena and criminal complaints and the ATF for the piss poor attempt at grandstanding.

It is well known the AFT had notified the news media the night before that there was to be a “big raid” the next day gave them the addy and even the show time. The tip was from the head ATF agent who coordinated the raid to a producer at CNN. When the AFT arrived that morning the Davidians were well aware of the impending raid due to the sizable encampment of reporters complete with satellite trucks camped just outside the front gate.

How else do you think the media was able to film all those cattle trailers rolling down that dusty road on that fateful morning?

How else do you think the media was able to be there when TSHTF and grab all those clips of ATF agents being gunned down?

It was all well documented during the subsequent Congressional hearings that much of the blame did indeed lay at the feet of the ATF et al… but the true catalyst for the entire scenario laid at the feet of the Davidians themselves.


There is no conspiracy, just stupidity that resulted in this nightmare.

TMMT
 
ATF

TMMT,

True, the ATF made some questionable choices with regard to media coverage and even tactics on the day of the big raid.

But then, do you think the ATF commander honestly expected to face .50-caliber fire on his agents???? OK, so the ATF was guilty of trying to get some PR on a big bust that instead went horribly wrong (the Davidians' choice).

the Davidians are guilty of murdering federal agents executing a legal raid. (if they wanted to protest the legality of the raid, thats what judges get paid to decide) the ATF and the FBI waited for months to work out a peaceful solution. when the decision was made to go in, armored vehicles pumped tear gas into the compound. TEAR GAS - it irritates, it doesn't kill people.

the Davidians then chose to set fire to the structure and forensic evidence proves that many Davidian children were shot in the head at close range with a handgun. The Davidians chose to murder their own children.

yes, mistakes were made on both sides. now, who do you think deserves most of the blame?
 
Re: ATF

captainv said:
TMMT,



But then, do you think the ATF commander honestly expected to face .50-caliber fire on his agents????


The AFT had extensive knowledge of what they were getting into, they had one agent undercover within the compound who detailed all the firepower inside to the ATF and who, himself set up a meeting with two more undercover ATF agents will Koresh just days before the raid.

The man’s name is Robert Rodriguez, ATF Undercover Agent who was placed inside the compound. He testified before Congress that not only did he tell ATF field Commanders of the potential of disaster if the chose to use a dynamic raid, but he detailed all of the weaponry he saw too.

He told them of speeches Koresh routinely gave detailing just such a battle and how the Davidians should react. No wonder the Congressional hearings proved that it was indeed the Davidians that go the jump on the ATF and not vice-a-versa.

http://www.cnn.com/2000/LAW/07/columns/fl.wisenberg.waco.07.20/

The ATF tried many stories to justify their FUBAR, from getting the military involved under the counter narcotics military assistance rules. They tried to fly the story to JTF-6 of a methamphetamine laboratory being on the premises.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/wacopentagon990803.html

Even remember some blurb about child abuse, which in all likelihood would have been true all things considered.

What the Davidians did was wrong I agree, but I also believe that if cooler heads had prevailed and folks at ATF had of stepped back and analyzed the information as a whole they would have saw that a dynamic raid on this compound was suicide.

There are a million news articles that lay out the case that the ATF while acting under color of law, acted with the grace and stupidity of a whooping crane on crack.

Here’s another article from ABCNews that clearly states that most Law Enforcement Officials believe the Army’s Delta Force had a hand in this nightmare as well.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/waco990827.html

The whole thing stunk from start to finish.

I’ll let you respond then I saw we call it before this thing turns into a whizzing match over who has the bigger conspiracy.

I believe we both agree it was wrong and that the Davidians could have averted the whole thing, it’s just a matter of how we feel about the ATF that is in question,

Regards
TMMT
 
ATF

TMMT,


>>I believe we both agree it was wrong and that the Davidians could have averted the whole thing, it’s just a matter of how we feel about the ATF that is in question,

agreed. the ATF and the Davidians made miscalculations of equal caliber.

and i appreciate the links you found. time permitting, i could find you articles from flagship papers (NYT, Wash Post, L.A. times) that alternate viewpoints. i.e. that it was ATF's fault, it was the Davidians fault, ATF was blindsided, or ATF knew of the danger but went in anyway, etc.

one of the faults of modern journalism is that stories more often report different viewpoints of an event, rather than what really happened. the papers all talked to Davidians after the event, and reported stories detailing their views about what happened. another reporter would do a sit-down with the ATF command team, and have a story with their perspective. then the pentagon reporter would file a piece on how Pentagon brass "think" Delta force had a hand in things. there's no proof mind you, that would take some real work - and besides, you'd never get an official document saying Delta Force did this or that. it's enough to report that some people think they had a hand in it and leave it at that. i wouldn't be at all surprised if Delta was consulted for their thoughts, but Delta teams operating against U.S. citizens on U.S. soil? it'll take more than supposition to hook me on that one.

it's not uncommon to have a breaking story and get three totally different takes on it from the powerhouse papers. it all depends on who their reporters talked to. and i speak from experience, having spent 4 years in the newspaper biz.

i guess what it comes down to for me is intent. if not for the Davidians' illegal activities, the ATF never would've been there. the ATF could've handled the raid much better, possibly saving the lives of most of the Davidians had they gone another route. but the fact remains the ATF went in there because a bunch of zealots had military-grade weaponry and wouldn't give it up. the Davidians could've surrendered peacefully at any time, but they chose not to. they decided to open fire on federal agents executing a legal search, misguided as it may have been. and they were the ones who decided to take their own lives in the end, and to murder their children as a final act. it was almost a case of suicide by police.

anyway, that the view from my side of the fence. i certainly hope the government handles it better next time, but i fully support their right to go in after people like this.

i've enjoyed the debate, but we're pretty far off topic so let's let it end here.

Regards,
Captainv
 
Hey, Capt - I haven't had my "shot" back at you. Not going to close the debate just yet.

You seem to be putting off the references listed above as slanted. How about reading some of them. You really seem to be arguing your point with no backup, as I see it.

BTW - what's military grade weaponry? I own a 12 ga shotgun... believe the military has used those on occasion. Is mil grade weaponry like an Assault Rifle?! Sounds like media hype words. last I checked, owning AR-15s, mini 14's, etc isn't illegal. Does that matter?

Since you seem to be so confident in your understanding of the situation as Waco, then how do you account for the FBI's shooting of Randy Weaver's wife (in the neck while holding her baby) at Ruby Ridge? Probably deserved it - right?

http://www.cnn.com/2001/LAW/06/14/ruby.ridge.02/

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-lynch082102.asp

Forgot to mention the trust and warmth that other fed police have generated with the handling persons such as Elain Gonzales.

http://wire.ap.org/APpackages/sequence_pix/photos/seq3.jpg

I'm sure there are a lot of good people working in these groups. But committing these crimes and then covering up and obstructing others investigating these events has really turned my opinion negative of almost all federal police groups. I used to be a blind supporter of the Jack-Booted Thugs. Then I actually started reading and listening. Suggest you do the same captV, VivaZapata - Sport Illustrated doesn't count though.

http://www.cato.org/dailys/09-08-99.html?FACTNet

CaptV - You mention the children in the compound were shot by their own. Give me one source where this is documented (excluding the FBI or other fed police source). You can't because there's no info backing up this claim. If any kids were shot, it was by the FBI shooting into the buildings as they burned.

Ever hear of a guy named Carlos Ghigliotti? I doubt it. He was an infra red video expert who was retained by the House Panel investigating the shooting during the fire. Well - funny thing, he was prepared to testify that the FBI was shooting tinto the buildings as they burned. He turned up murdered in April 2000, before being able to testify.

http://www.alamo-girl.com/03604.htm

why'd the FBI use CS gas on little kids? What would that stuff do to a little kid? been documented to be lethal to kids in the quantities used at Waco, as testified by the FBI afterwards. Not to mention the possibility of incindiary CS grenades catching the wood frame building on fire.

BTW, VivaZapata - its the COUNCIL on Foreign Relations, and the Trilateral Commission is *not* associated with the UN. You really should read a little more. and no - they don't have the United States' best interest in mind.

http://www.cfr.org/

http://trilateral.org:9999/

You forgot about the Bilderbergs. ever hear of this group?

Why couldn't the FBI (and BATF) just wait them out? Why raid the complex in the first place. It's a very known fact that Koresh went into Waco many, many times. Why not arrest him there? Why - they wanted a shootout.

Hopefully, the fed police have learned and this won't ever happen again.

happy flying
 
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