Farken Ag Pilot!

[Hugh Jorgan]

I wrote a short story about crop dusting back in the fifties and sixties, anyone want me to link it here?

Sounds cool. Please do.

 

[RightPedal]

I seek no closure. I also have no desire to give someone a hard time with their boss (hey, as far as i know it was a one time occurence). All i did was rant about this incident, as admitted in the original post. Anger did play a role, obviously. This thread more or less serves as a reminder that there are dangerous situations out there, and everyone should be as careful as possible. I sure learned something from that incident. Perhaps others have too, or at least have been made aware that there are non standard operations going on - legal or otherwise. I didn't intend for this thread to get out of hand as it has. However, some of the responces defending the ag pilot & telling me that I and the fellow pilots in the pattern were at fault do bother me.

As for contacting said owner ... thats okay. If you know the owner, feel free to send him a link to this thread, if you think that would help anything.

You handled that very well....Thank you

 

[Cat Driver]

The story needs to be in two parts for this forum, so here is part one.

----------------------------------------------------

The Tobacco Fields - By Chuck Ellsworth

For generations the farmers of southern Ontario have planted cared for harvested and cured tobacco in a small area on the northern shores of lake Erie. Our part in this very lucrative cash crop was aerial application of fertilizers and pesticides better known as crop dusting.

At the end of the twentieth century this form of farming is slowly dying due to the ever-increasing movement of the anti-smoking segment of society. Although few would argue the health risks of smoking it is interesting that our government actively supports both sides of this social problem. Several times in the past ten or so years I have rented a car and driven back to the tobacco farming area of Southern Ontario, where over forty years ago I was part of that unique group of pilots who earned their living flying the crop dusting planes.

The narrow old highways are still there, but like the tobacco farms they are slowly fading into history as newer and more modern freeways are built. The easiest way of finding tobacco country is to drive highway 3, during the nineteen forties and early fifties this winding narrow road was the main route from Windsor through the heart of tobacco country and on to the Niagara district. Soon after leaving the modern multi lane 401 to highway 3 you will begin to realize that although it was only a short drive you have drifted back a long way in time. Driving through the small villages and towns very little has changed and life seems to be as it was in the boom days of tobacco farming, when transients came from all over the continent for the harvest. They came by the hundreds to towns like Aylmer, Tillsonberg, Deli and Simcoe, these towns that were synonymous with tobacco have changed so little it is like going back in time.

Several of the airfields we flew our Cubs, Super Cubs and Stearmans out of in the fifties and early sixties are still there. Just outside of Simcoe highway 3 runs right past the airport and even before turning into the driveway to the field I can see that after all these years nothing seems to have changed. I could be in a time warp and can imagine a Stearman or Cub landing and one of my old flying friends getting out of his airplane after another morning killing tobacco horn worms, and saying come on Chuck lets walk down to the restaurant and have breakfast. The tobacco hornworm was a perennial pest and our most important and profitable source of income. Most of my old companion's names have faded from memory as the years have passed and we went our different ways but some of them are easy to recall.

Like Lorne Beacroft a really great cropduster and Stearman pilot. Lorne and I shared many exciting adventures in our airplanes working together from the row crop farms in Southern Ontario to conifer release spraying all over Northern Ontario for the big pulp and paper companies. Little did we know then that many years later I would pick up a newspaper thousands of miles away and read about Lorne being Canadas first successful heart transplant. I wonder where he is today and what he is doing?

There are others, Tom Martindale whom I talked to just last year after over forty years, now retired having flown a long career with Trans Canada Airlines, now named Air Canada. Then there was Howard Zimmerman who went on to run his own helicopter company and still in the aerial applicating business last I heard of him. And who could forget Bud Boughner another character that just disappeared probably still out there somewhere flying for someone.

I have been back to St. Thomas, another tobacco farming town on highway 3 twice in the last several years to pick up airplanes to move for people in my ferry business. The airport has changed very little over the years. The hanger where I first learned to fly cropdusters is still there with the same smell of chemicals that no Ag. Pilot can ever forget. It is now the home of Hicks and Lawrence who were in the business in the fifties and still at it, only the airplanes have changed.

My first flying job started in that hangar, right from a brand new commercial license to the greatest flying job that any pilot could ever want. There were twenty-three of us who started the crop dusting course early that spring, in the end only three were hired and I was fortunate to have been one of them.

With the grand total of 252 hours in my log book I started my training with an old duster pilot named George Walker. Right from the start he let me know that I was either going to fly this **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ed thing right on its limits and be absolutely perfect in flying crop spraying patterns or the training wouldn't last long. It was fantastic not only to learn how to really fly unusual attitudes but do it right at ground level.

 

[Cat Driver]

Part Two

------------------------------------

To become a good crop duster pilot required that you accurately fly the airplane to evenly apply the chemicals over the field being treated. We really had to be careful with our flying when applying fertilizers in early spring as any error was there for all to see as the crop started growing. This was achieved by starting on one side of the field maintaining a constant height, airspeed and track over the crop. Just prior to reaching the end of your run full power was applied, and at the last moment the spray booms were shut off and at the same time a forty-five degree climb was initiated. As soon as you were clear of obstructions a turn right or left was made using forty five to sixty degrees of bank. After approximately three seconds a very quick turn in the opposite direction was entered until a complete one hundred and eighty degree change of direction had been completed. If done properly you were now lined up exactly forty-five feet right or left of the track you had just flown down the field.

From that point a forty-five degree dive was entered and with the use of power recovery to level flight was made at the exact height above the crop and the exact airspeed required for the next run down the field in the opposite direction to your last pass. Speed was maintained from that point by reducing power.

To finish the course and be one of the three finally hired was really hard to believe. To be paid to do this was beyond belief. When the season began we were each assigned an airplane, a crash helmet, a tent and sleeping bag and sent off to set up what was to be our summer home on some farmers field. Mine was near Langdon just a few miles from lake Erie.

Last year I tried without success to find the field where my Cub and I spent a lot of that first summer. Time and change linked with my memory of its location being from flying into it rather than driving to it worked against me and I was unable to find it. Remembering it however is easy, how could one forget crawling out of my tent just before sunrise to mix the chemicals? Then pump it into the spray tank and hand start the cub. Then to be in the air just as it was getting light enough to see safely and get in as many acres as possible before the wind came up and shut down our flying until evening. Then with luck the wind would go down enough to allow us to resume work before darkness would shut us down for the day. The company had a very good method for assuring we would spray the correct field.

Each new job was given to us by the salesman who after selling the farmer drew a map for the pilots with the location of the farm and each building and its color plus all the different crops were written on the map drawn to scale. As well as the buildings all trees, fences and power lines were drawn to scale. It was very easy for us to find and positively identify our field to be sprayed and I can not remember us making any errors in that regard.

Sadly there were to many flying errors made and during the first three years that I crop-dusted eight pilots died in this very demanding type of flying in our area. Most of the accidents were due to stalling in turns or hitting power lines, fences or trees.

One new pilot who had only been with us for two weeks died while doing a low level stall turn and spinning in, he was just to low to recover from the loss of control. He had been on his way back from a spraying mission when he decided to put on an airshow at the farm of his girlfriend of the moment. This particular accident was to be the last for a long time as those of us who were flying for the different companies in that area had by that time figured out what the limits were that we could not go beyond.

Even though there were a lot of accidents in the early years they at least gave the industry the motivation to keep improving on flying safety, which made a great difference in the frequency of pilot error accidents. Agricultural flying has improved in other areas as well especially in the use of toxic chemicals.

In 1961 Rachel Carson wrote a book called "The silent spring. " This book was the beginning of public awareness to the danger of the wide area spraying of chemicals especially the use of D.D.T. to control Mosquitoes and black flies.

For years all over the world we had been using this chemical not really aware that it had a very long-term residual life. When Rachels book pointed out that D.D.T. had began to build up in the food chain in nature, she also showed that as a result many of the birds and other species were in danger of being wiped out due to D.D.T. Her book became a best seller and we in the aerial application business were worried that it would drastically affect our business, and it did.

The government agency in Ontario that regulated pesticides and their use called a series of meetings with the industry. From these meetings new laws were passed requiring us to attend Guelph agricultural college and receive a diploma in toxicology and entomology. I attended these classes and in the spring of 1962 passed the exams and received Pest Control License Class 3 - Aerial Applicator.

My license number was 001. Now if nothing else I can say that I may not have been the best but I was the first. Without doubt the knowledge and understanding of the relationship of these chemicals to the environment more than made up for all the work that went into getting the license. From that point on the industry went to great length to find and use chemicals less toxic to our animal life and also to humans.

It would be easy to just keep right on writing about aerial application and all the exciting and sometimes boring experiences we had, however I will sum it all up with the observation that crop dusting was not only my first flying job it was without doubt the best. I flew seven seasons' crop dusting and I often think of someday giving it another go, at least for a short time.

 

[bugchaser]

Wow, haven't checked in for a few days and look what I missed. From what I can tell the Ag pilot in question simply made a mistake. Or maybe the original poster just over reacted. No reason for some folks to make uneducated blanket statements about the safety of ag operations in general. There is also no reason for some others to defend the actions of this pilot just because he is one of "us". Many times somes of us get crossed up with other pilots because of a lack of understanding of what we are doing. Often times it is safe to cut under the patter and in front of airplanes on final because we know that there will be no conflict. The problem comes when other pilots don't understand what is going on. I have always thought that a radio is a good investment when flying around other traffic and have used one for the last few years. My policy always is that I will fly a standard pattern unless I can establish communication with those in the pattern and everyone knows what I am up to. Not suprising anyone with something nonstandard is the best way to get along. And yes, we are capable of talking on the radio while flying. I could talk on the phone and the comm radio while working a field. If everything is wired up to switches on the stick, it is no problem at all. Most Ag pilots are very safe pilots who are just trying to get a job done.

 

[avbug]

Do you still maintain that the ag pilot did nothing wrong in the debated situation? Were the other five aircraft in the pattern at fault for following established procedures?

No, but again, those are words you and other make-believe artists here put in my mouth.

I said that not enough information is available, that of all the posters here, only one was there (you), and that one poster is inexperienced and low time, and hardly the yardstick by which to measure the matter.

Further, I never stated that the ag pilot did nothing wrong. I never stated that ag pilot did right...I stuck to the fact that an ag operator engaged in his business has the authority of regulation, per an act of congress, to operate outside Part 91...something that hasn't apparently sunk in.

Too many folks here seem to think that a radio solves everything. Now you'll notice that I never advocated going without a radio, or failing to make radio calls. In addition to ag work, I do other work, including donning my monkey suit shirt, tie, epaulets, and playing nice in the national airspace system as a regular pilot. One of those guys that's "above" guys like me...as one arrogant poster put it (or words to that effect). However...radios don't see traffic, and those that believe one who fails to use a radio is dangerous merely show their inexperience.

One may have twenty years in a Part 121 airline but moving to a different type of operation puts that person squarely in the student pilot seat. For those who have been tooling around in their Falcon 50 or B757 and think they've reached the pinnacle of knowledge, think again. If you think that one who doesn't have or use a radio is dangerous, you're only showing your own inexperience and foolishness. You're talking out of turn. If your sphere of experience were a little bigger, you'd know differently, and would realize how stupid such consel really is. Radios don't fly airplanes, pilots do.

I've met far too many stuffed shirts who really believed that the first action after donning one's mask in a cabin pressure loss situation is to set the microphone switch to mask...to establish communications. Talk. Too many who after even years of training and recurrency, forget that the first task is to fly the airplane.

Only a few days ago I watched corporate pilot after corporate pilot in citations, king airs, cheyennes, cessna 340's, conquests, and what-not, cut one another off in the pattern at an uncontrolled field. Their jabs at one another on the radio were far from professional. Their behavior was les than stellar. In an amazing turn of events, not a single ag pilot was spotted, much less responsible for the melodrama. Aircraft landing opposite directions, aircraft going around aircraft cutting one another off, aircraft calling and whining about who cut who off, who didn't call what, and aircraft broadcasting that they'd circled enough after being cut off and now they were coming in without apology.

Busy day, lots of starched stuffed shirts with their noses all awrinkle, and not a single agricultural aviator upon which to blame their troubles. Wow. Who'da thunk it?

Occasionally I get cut off by other aircraft. Shoot, while performing aerial dispensing operations, I've been cut off by private pilots and commercial pilots who thought they ought to be there, too. Two days ago I did a go-around because a corporate pilot thought he ought to use a different runway and despite my repeated radio calls giving position and progress in the standard traffic patter I was flying, he elected to utilize the opposite direction runway anyway.

Know what? I didn't write ten or fifteen pages of whining commentary opining that these folks were in the wrong, or go off on some freakish tangent about their profession, or dictate that they were beneath me. I simply went on with the day. I didn't seek them out to realign their faces. I didn't write their mothers and say bad words. I didn't even cry. I just moved on.

Seems mattpilot can't do that, nor can a dozen of others here. A few like hugh jergen can't help themselves...having nothing to contribute, they jump in to ply their usual claptrap.

When sitting on contract in the summer, I watch dozens of instructors and students and private pilots reinvent the traffic pattern every day. It's more entertainment than one could ever hope for in a theater. Often there, the only standard traffic pattern flown in a given day with an AIM-sanctioned cookie-cutter traffic pattern, and standard radio calls...is me...the only ag pilot in and out of the joint. Go figure.

Next some of you guys will suggest that skydivers carry radios...announce their altitude on the way down. How about a handheld...those factory installations are hard to do on a piggy back sport rig.

Like most of you here, I use TCAS every day...and like most of you, I know fully well that only Mode S Transponder-equipped aircraft appear on TCAS...a lot or targets are out there that don't appear. Now some of you might go so far as to suggest that an aircraft with no Mode S is a dangerous aircraft, merely because you have TCAS. But what about those other aircraft that don't have TCAS...far more aircraft are out there flying without it than have it. No, those aircraft aren't dangerous, and yes, they can be safely operated without TCAS or Mode S.

Likewise, I grew up as a kid flying tube and fabric aircraft that had no electrical system and no radio. Was that dangerous? Not hardly. As a kid, we used to fly a 200' traffic pattern, and very seldom did I ever climb above 500' AGL. Was that dangerous? No, not at all. Of it's own accord, no, it wasn't.

Pilots at uncontrolled fields often talk about the "active" runway, as if there were ever such a thing at an uncontrolled field. Pilots assume that they own a runway if they intend to land on it. Pilots feel that anyone who uses a different runway has committed a sin agains their race or their God, and merits a three hundred page thread on the subject based on their own ridiculous rantings. Like this thread.

 

[Bandit60]

AV Bug....Years ago I was at a small airport in Arkansas when an FAA inspector was citing ag pilots for careless and reckless operations for crossing active runway at the local airport without making any calls or reports and cutting off planes using that runway. It is not required to call on the radio but the inspector told me that because of the ag pilot was putting others at risk that he had to cite him for careless and reckless operations.


This is a true story... I was there

 

[wingnutt]

now avbug, that post is on a whole different plane than any of your others...admit it, you feel better now, dontcha

 

[Jim]

...and like most of you, I know fully well that only Mode S Transponder-equipped aircraft appear on TCAS...

Wrong. Modes C and S will show with altitude information and can generate TAs and RAs. Transponder equipped aircraft not squawking altitude will show without altitude information and can only generate TAs.

 

[avbug]

Actually, it's consistant with what I said before. Folks were too busy trying to figure out how to tie a legal hangman's knot to finish the discussion.

AV Bug....Years ago I was at a small airport in Arkansas when an FAA inspector was citing ag pilots for careless and reckless operations for crossing active runway at the local airport without making any calls or reports and cutting off planes using that runway. It is not required to call on the radio but the inspector told me that because of the ag pilot was putting others at risk that he had to cite him for careless and reckless operations.


This is a true story... I was there

I don't doubt it's a true story. It's also true that the FAA is known for it's collective wisdom and fair play. Just ask Howard Frield, Mike Taylor, or Bob Hoover.

91.13...the single most used regulation in enforcement action. What a surprise.

Didn't wash your hands before leaving the restroom? Careless and reckless operation. Notice that almost every FAA enforcement action against pilots includes 91.13 at some point in the enforcement or appeal process? Why do you suppose that is?

It's a catch-all.

Then again, in the many days after 09/11, ag pilots all over the country were seen and reported dispensing white dust on hapless communities. Even when the aircraft were in the hangar with the prop chained or removed they were seen attacking a polite society with evil white dust.

For the most part, however, with respect to agricultural avaition, the FAA knows enough to leave well enough alone.

Wrong. Modes C and S will show with altitude information and can generate TAs and RAs. Transponder equipped aircraft not squawking altitude will show without altitude information and can only generate TAs.

Actually, no. Merely because an aircraft has a 4096 Mode C transponder, the target will not necessarily even show up on TCAS. But then that's the point. Folks also think that because they have TCAS, like a radio, they're seeing and hearing all the traffic, and that just ain't so. It's not just aircraft that aren't squawking that don't show up. I see aircraft every day, passing right in front of me, that ATC sees and that ATC is talking to and that are participating with ATC, that aren't on the fish finder.

Aircraft with active mode C may not show up on TCAS...just as aircraft with radios, talking on a different frequency or not talking, won't be heard. Neither can be relied upon as giving the full picture, but too many folks do. The single most irritating thing I hear a pilot ever say is "any inbound traffic please advise."

Just us guys with no radios, kid. Just us guys with no radios.

 

[TDTURBO]

Bugchaser,

According to Avgod and many of your colleagues, you would need a "third hand" to use a radio. My contention is simple, if you are flying a NO RADIO equipt ag plane, then follow normal protocols. If you have a radio, then use it. What is so hard to understand about that?

Please tell me "RidetheWind". You seem to be an authority, why is it again you can't use a radio in an ag plane?

Avgod contends that radios don't "see" traffic. I guess everyone with a radio should put them up on e-bay then 'cuase they are useless huh?

Obviously people on the board aren't all "meatheads" and "brightsparks" and "foolish idiots". Nobody on this thread said that a radio "sees" traffic, it only aids in identifying a visual sooner that later.

Funny thing, before this thread, many more people "looked up" to avbug do to his experience.

I was the one, mentioned earlier in this thread, that suggested he write a book. It was only after several mis-steps and inaccurate info he was posting on another web site that I "called him out".

I did this respectfully only to get flamed as a suicidal idiot, fool, brightspark, (whatever that is) and a few other choice adjectives. He seems to dwell and thrive on ridiculing fellow pilots that he disagrees with.

He mixes sound advice with very BAD advice and will NEVER admit he is EVER wrong.

Avbug will even flame you if you compliment him, strange fellow indeed.

I feel he is combative towards others because he never met his goals early in his career and is relegated to a low paying thankless job.

I also feel he is very bitter and needs to feel empowered by his posts. That is why he lives on a computer.

Avbug, the reason you are where you are is simple,

You don't get along with people, I know of one DE that knows you well, His first name is Bob, ring a bell? This and your irrational posts is how I know, basically you're a d1ck!

In an odd way, I feel sorry for you.

Bottom line, the ag plane messed up, no ifs ands or buts about it. Big deal, nobody is perfect, even you Avbug.

Anybody that would defend his actions are fools as well, and that’s all I have to say about that!

Goodnight!

 

[Cat Driver]

Hmmmm. well I guess my posting a normal story about ag flying got lost in the heat of the moment....


...oh well I tried..

Cat Driver

 

[TDTURBO]

Hmmmm. well I guess my posting a normal story about ag flying got lost in the heat of the moment....


...oh well I tried..

Cat Driver

Sorry Cat Driver, I didn't get a chance to read it yet, I will though, I promise.

 

[avbug]

I don't know any designated examiners named bob.

I was the one, mentioned earlier in this thread, that suggested he write a book. It was only after several mis-steps and inaccurate info he was posting on another web site that I "called him out".

No, not exactly, mate. You began to cry and rant after you began pissing out misinformation and stupidly bragging about doing foolish things like flying a slick 182 in ice to gain experience...your feelings got hurt, and you're still trying to find a way to take potshots back. Very badly, too, I might add.

He mixes sound advice with very BAD advice and will NEVER admit he is EVER wrong.

Which bad advice might that be, smart guy?

Avbug will even flame you if you compliment him, strange fellow indeed.

I don't tolerate patronization well. That's true. Nor do I want your love, respect, or whatever sick thing it is that compels you to speak out.

I also feel he is very bitter and needs to feel empowered by his posts. That is why he lives on a computer.

No, I live on a computer because I can't afford a house. But it's nice. Just small. Nice, with little chintz curtains and a really small lamp. Ever heard of a LAPTOP?

I feel he is combative towards others because he never met his goals early in his career and is relegated to a low paying thankless job.

Sadly, the exact opposite is true, beer buddy. I've met all my goals, far too easily. All except one...to be just like you.

According to Avgod and many of your colleagues, you would need a "third hand" to use a radio. My contention is simple, if you are flying a NO RADIO equipt ag plane, then follow normal protocols.

Lessee, those would be normal agricultural aviation protocols...something you have no experience or place to discuss...and every ag aviator who has responded to you does follow ag avaition protocols, radio or not. Avgod? really? Anything like Bruce Almighty? Just watched it from my hotel room. I wanna be like bruce. Only with a handheld radio. Then I'd be tdturbo...that unrealized goal. Yikes. Just thinking about it gives me the shivers.

Goodnight!

That's the only true, intelligent, and accurate thing you've posted to date.

 

[Metro752]

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww COME ON. THIS thread has gotten posts on FAR citations, input from high and low timers. From non pilots through atps and beyond.

We got the point.

1. Ag Pilot May Have Been Wreckless landing in the opposite direction

2. AVIATE then COMMUNICATE

3. SEE AND AVOID

4. ONLY RAT OUT NON-PILOTS

5. AVBUG aka AVGOD (in a good way from me) and everyone else have their opinions from experience and what the "good book" says.

6. This message board, occasionall..........usually is not the site of professional "pilot speak"

7. We all care about safety

8. Calling Ag Pilots the Guys who Ride the "Little Yellow Short Plane" brings all of them out of the wood works.

9. Continueing this thread and repeating the same thing over and over is boring, but it's a free country, so go head.

10. I can't think of a 10 because I don't feel like it.

 

[TDTURBO]

Sorry avbug, you got it wrong again, I fly in a 100 ft thick layer of icing at 6000 ft to get dusted with very warm air below to get first hand experience with airfoil degradation. I know exactly what my plane can and can not do because I have flown it many years, attended countless icing and weather seminars, 182 systems and procedures courses and read just about every aviation book published. I take my well-being very seriously. In fact just 6 hrs ago, my plane came out of annual, the mechanic gave me the keys and said "take it for a test flight. He had just taxied it from the run up area for the final checks.

What did I do?

I proceeded to do a thorough pre-flight, even sumping the fuel tanks and checking every rivet and screw on the plane. When I went to sump the bottom, low and behold, I see the nose gear actuator door cover plate dangling by one screw. This could have jammed the nose gear doors and caused a very messy landing. I don't trust anybody when it comes to my airplane, that's why I constantly seek out information on the internet, in course work, books and hanger talk. But I have NEVER met a bigger D1ck than you in my life.

You judged 90% of the pilots on this board by calling them "dung".

You stated emphatically that a plane without logs is a pile of useless garbage...................WRONG!

You got upset when I called you out on that one also. It is late and I need to work tomorrow. You go right ahead and stroke your ego some more, while I'm laughing with those other 90%.

Avbug, when you think Bob, think 135 and Indiana, I'm sure it will come to you.

 

[Jim]

Thread hijack for a TCAS lesson

Wrong. Modes C and S will show with altitude information and can generate TAs and RAs. Transponder equipped aircraft not squawking altitude will show without altitude information and can only generate TAs.

Actually, no. Merely because an aircraft has a 4096 Mode C transponder, the target will not necessarily even show up on TCAS. But then that's the point. Folks also think that because they have TCAS, like a radio, they're seeing and hearing all the traffic, and that just ain't so. It's not just aircraft that aren't squawking that don't show up. I see aircraft every day, passing right in front of me, that ATC sees and that ATC is talking to and that are participating with ATC, that aren't on the fish finder.

Aircraft with active mode C may not show up on TCAS......

TCAS came out before Mode S. Mode C is supposed to show up on TCAS. That it sometimes does not can be due to many factors: signal attenuation, block signals due to the relative placement of the antenna on each aircraft, etc.

An aircraft with TCAS I (TAs only) must have a Mode C transponder installed. It will see aircraft with a Mode A, C or S transponder and will generate TAs as neccessary.

An aircraft that has TCAS II (TAs and RAs) installed must have a Mode S transponder. It will see aircraft with a Mode A, C or S transponder and will generate TAs on these aircraft as neccessary. Additionally, it will generate RAs on aircraft with Mode C or S transponders. RAs on aircraft with Mode C are uncoordinated and the vertical escape manuever is decided independently by the the aircraft's TCAS computer. If the target aircraft is also Mode S and is TCAS II equipped, the TCASs "talk" to each other and vertical escape manuevers shown in each aircraft for RA resolution are coordinated.

Eventually, there is supposed to be TCAS III which will also require Mode S. If it ever comes about, it will expand the escape manuevers to the horizontal plane. Targets with Modes A will generate TAs while targets with Modes C and S will generate TAs and RAs. If the target is TCAS II equipped, coordinated vertical manuevers will be used for RAs. If the target is TCAS III equipped, coordinated horizontal and/or vertical mauevers will be used for RAs.

Back in 1995 I did my Master project on TCAS, conducting a joint study with the FAA.

I also currently fly an aircraft that has Mode C and TCAS I. I see non-TCAS Mode A and C aircraft daily on my TCAS screen.

 

[User546]

Who'da thunk a simple thread that's only substance had to do with a simple complaint/observation from a training pilot, and it's still raging on 177 posts later!

I love this board!

 

[wingnutt]

...doh!!!

 

[Cat Driver]

Is it possible that ego's are at work somewhere in the background here?

Yh just gotta love aviation and all the weird things that make it so much fun to kill time here reading this stuff..